The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[c.moore]

missedmarks

most of the people that don`t understand the water baptism are people who have also trouble with spiritual thing, like the trinity, or healings, and speaking in tongues, and spiritual gifts.
If you ask them about these things you will find out I am telling the truth , and that why they can`t understand the baptism like us .
1Co:2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


God Bless

 

[Melody]

Originally posted by c.moore



Quote by c.moore
Your sure right about that, M't:1:23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Is it ok to take this name Melody, because at least Jehovah God is here also in Emmanuel. Praise God!

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

These are ALL titles. None of these are proper names.

Jesus is the ONLY name given to men whereby we must be saved.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Originally posted by c.moore


Quote by c.moore
M't:28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jo:5:6: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo:5:8: And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If these three be one God and Jesus is the WORD then we can use His name on earth sence I said before in my last post that it please the Father God that all the fullness is in jesus, and His name is above all names, but we that personal know Jesus , know that Jesus is the Father ,the Son, and the Holy Spirit= to all one.

Quote by melody

The apostles never preached it or practiced it in the scripture.


Quote by c.moore
Who has the final Word Apostles or Jesus?????

Jesus gave that authority to Peter.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

and the disciples.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And he opened their understanding and instructed to them preach the message "in His name!"

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Originally posted by c.moore



Quote by Melody

Father, son and Holy Ghost are not proper names they are titles of relationships.

Jesus is the only name given under heaven whereby we MUST be saved


Quote by c.moore
You said ; given under heaven whereby we MUST be saved

I didn't say it, The scripture does.

Originally posted by c.moore


How about in heaven, and in the spiritual world who is Jesus????
The bible says , and I will repeat; 1Jo:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Most born again christian know that Jesus is God and when you use Jesus name we know it means , the Father , SON, and Holy GHOST, and Jesus is all in one, and that why everything must bow before the name of Jesus because of all the fullness that is in the name of Jesus all = to one God like you said and name.



M'r:12:29: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:


1Co:8:4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Eph:4:6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And This is why Peter and the Apostles preached and BAPTIZED in the NAME of Jesus!

Originally posted by c.moore


I wish and pray that you really can understand this scripture below so you will know why in the Name of Jesus is used for us.

1Tm:2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

THAT is My wish for you!!

Originally posted by c.moore

Is it true that you don`t believe in healings, and that it died out???

NO, It is Not true! I believe that all the gifts of the spirit are for the church today!

Originally posted by c.moore


Also you don`t believe in the trinity????

There is one God and one person in the godhead, Jesus Christ.

M'r:12:29: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

1Co:8:4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Eph:4:6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Originally posted by c.moore


Also you don`t believe a person can be saved by Belief and trust Jesus as their savior only?????

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last [to be] more than the first.

Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days:

Dan 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Originally posted by c.moore

Also you don`t believe in tithes according to Mal:3:8: Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal:3:9: Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

I find no scripture where paying tithes was ever commanded or taught to the church.

Giving offerings is NOT the same as PAYING tithes.

The bride does NOT pay the bridegroom.

 

[JustAChristian]

What About The Millions?

What About The Millions?

Originally posted by missedmarks
JustaChristian,

Yeah I know, It's the opinion that I (and millions of others) have formed after reading the Bible and considering it as a whole. God demands your obediance, but Christ's sacrifice makes up for your shortcomings.

Salvation comes from Jesus, not from the actions we take in response to him. If obediance saved, we wouldn't need a saivor.

c. moore

JustaChristain, has a different belief, but as long as his trust is in Jesus Christ, he is just as saved as you and I.

Obedience saves because the commands to obey comes from the savior. Christ did his part and we must do ours. Salvation is "by grace (God's part) through faith" (our part).

Just remember, the majority has never been right. Have you read about the "broad way that leads to distruction"? ( Matthew 7:13). Why do you suppose it is broad?

JustAChristian

 

[biblicalanser4u]

JustaChristian,

Thank You for your reply!

Can you give me one verse of scripture that Jesus will come to the earth again? Now, I don't want some obscure statement that refers to Israel and Judah's return after the captivity, I want explicit and clear referance to Jesus coming again and establishing a kingdom in Jerusalem.

Since we are mostly in the book of Acts, I will use a Acts reference. Please Notice.
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

This is one of Many references dealing with the return of Christ back to Earth. If you really want to debate this, we really need to start a Second Advent Thread.

Evan,

On the other hand, I agree with Biblicalanser4u on the subject of the Second Advent!

Wonders will never cease!!!!!!!

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

I do think that JustAchristian is really saved like I know Kevin is saved, but, like I said we are at different levels in the faith.
Some are still babys learning to walk, but they are at least new born babies praise God.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but you really don't know who's saved and who isn't. How can one know he is saved before being judged by Christ? It is at the Judgement seat of Christ, and only then, will we know our fate (whether we are saved or not).

That being said, we can have assurance that we will (future tense) be saved if we are obedient to God until the point of death. That's how we know whether or not we will be saved... by our faith and obedience to His commandments.

 

[biblicalanser4u]

Kevin,

Thank You for your reply!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but you really don't know who's saved and who isn't. How can one know he is saved before being judged by Christ? It is at the Judgement seat of Christ, and only then, will we know our fate (whether we are saved or not).

Well, I don't hope to be saved Kevin, I am ASSURED I am.

I don't know you but 1 thing is for sure. You have a problem with Eternal Security. And theres 1 of 2 reasons for it.

1. You have an inadequate concept of Salvation. You think of salvation as being simply the forgiveness of sins, so if further sin is committed it is naturally felt that should you die before doing something to get forgiveness, you would be lost.

Kevin, salvation involves many other things which are not related to or affected by the forgiveness of sins: regeneration, membership in the family of God, babtism into the Body of Christ and into His death; justification, sealing, and more than I care to list. The committing of a sin cannot reverse all of these works which God has done in your behalf.

2.You have an exalted veiw of Human Will. There are those that hold what is known as "conditional security," that is, that you are secure in Christ as far as His safekeeping is concerned, but you still have free will and at any time you decide to,you may "step out of Christ" and be lost again. Those that hold this veiw, say that no man can pluck us out of God's hand (John 10:29), but we are free to jump out of our own accord.

It is well to remember Kevin, that your will is not supremem to God's will. Jesus had a will also, and He prayed in John 17:24: "Father, I WILL that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." We can be certain that Christ's will is not going to be defeated. The Body of Christ will not be maimed by missing members in eternity. Again, it is well to remember all of the works of God in salvation before speaking of a true beleiver losing his salvation.

 

[c.moore]

hey kevin
you said:That being said, we can have assurance that we will (future tense) be saved if we are obedient to God until the point of death. That's how we know whether or not we will be saved... by our faith and obedience to His commandments.


quote by c.moore
I am sorry that you have to wait so long to see if you are saved after all you can do, and all the effords to obey the commands and golden rules, to qualify,and make yourself righteous, and make yourself just, and make yourself obedient.

Just an hint Kevin, why don´t you let Jesus make you just , and righteous, and just yield your vessel to Jesus so he can do all the obeying and works.

His yoke is easier, and His burden is light, HE is willing to help and carry the long heavy load for you, just cast it on Jesus.

What ever you try to do don`t never start believing Jesus is not the Son of God, and please don`t stop trusting Him, then I`ll see you in heaven that for sure if you just do these two thing,a nd keep loving your next.

Let God bless you
pease

 

[c.moore]

Quote JustAchristian

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT BAPTISM
Baptism is the point at which a person is united with Christ into His death and resurrection into "newness of life" (Rom 6:3)
There is only ONE recognized baptism. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Eph 4:5)

There is not a spiritual baptism and a water baptism.

The baptism recognized is the one instituted by Christ himself, which He said was in order to "fulfill ALL righteousness" (Mt 3:15).

Quote c.moore
You said; that you didn´t say this in one of your post, but here is the proof again.
I don`t know if your lieing ,or if your confused.
I hope this is not the reason why you don`t understand about the truth of water baptism.
Please check out what you posted, because so how it look like you was calling me a liar, but I don`t let this bother me because I can humble myself even though I know I am right, and correct about something. If you can`t divide rightly your posts, then I think you will have A hard time dividing the bible.

The question is why did you denied that you said this????

There is not a spiritual baptism and a water baptism.

still waiting JustAchristian for an answer.

peace

 

[c.moore]

melody
first of all thank you for at least answering my post, even though I don´t agree with your interpretation of the bible, but I do understand where your coming from, and why you believe the why you do. I `m glad to see both side of the wall, of interpretation.
I do this study when I sometime read the bible, which I call the flip flop bible study.
I read the bible in one way that is not true, and the other way that is true, so I can understand other people doctrine and mistakes,and err. Just for an example when you look at this verse
Joh:1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I would read that in the beginning was God talking words out His mouth, and of course the mouth is on His body, and the words He spoke was God and from God, get my Idea of study?

God bless

 

[c.moore]

biblicalanser4u
Well, I don't hope to be saved Kevin, I am ASSURED I am.

Quote by c.moore
That why I can`t stop shouting for joy NOW, and that why I praise God Now, An that why I have to spead this good news that we can know NOW that we are saved( past tence) and I will never return to my egypt, it`s no fun, and no Joy, it full of hard works. I`ll rather stay in the given free grace gift for my salvation, all work out because of the cross and blood of Jesus.

praise God.

 

[JustAChristian]

Not a bonified verse!

Not a bonified verse!

Originally posted by biblicalanser4u
JustaChristian,

Thank You for your reply!

Since we are mostly in the book of Acts, I will use a Acts reference. Please Notice.
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Wonders will never cease!!!!!!!

This verse does not mention Jesus coming back to earth, but coming back to receive the saved in the clouds in the air (1 Thess 4:17). The saved will never be with the Lord in an earthlty physical kingdom, but will be with the Lord eternally in heaven. This earth will be destroyed immediately after the judgement of all mankind, which takes place immediately at the Lord's return.

When Jesus comes again it will be a day when ungodly people shall experience a "sudden destruction" (1 Thess. 5:3). The apostle Peter explained that the day of the Lord's coming would be a day of judgment and "destruction of ungodly men" (2 Pet. 3:7). The word "destroy" is defined by Vine as follows: "The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being." In 2 Thessalonians Paul described the destruction as "Punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thess. 1:9). Eternal removal from God's protective, providing face and eternal separation from God's glory equals eternal hell! (Matt. 25:46).

If, as according to Paul, there shall be a "sudden destruction" when Jesus comes then there is no time for the so-called "Tribulation" and the "Rapture."

The day of the Lord will be a day of "sudden destruction." It will be the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men (2 Pet. 3:5-8). But what about the "great tribulation"? Boettner boldly declared, "Nowhere in the Bible is the word `tribulation' used in connection with a seven year period at the end of the age, either while the church is still on earth, as Historic Premillennialism holds, or after the church has been removed from the earth, as Dispensationalism holds." Loraine Boettner, The Millennium (Philadelphia: The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1957, pg 117).

The favorite proof text of the rapture theory also explodes the doctrine. Paul said that the dead in Christ would be resurrected before those living when Jesus comes are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. (The living shall be changed in a moment, 1 Cor. 15:51-58). Paul said that the saints would be caught up to meet the Lord "in the air" and so they would "ever be with the Lord." There is no place in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 for a rapture and then a return to earth for a 1,000-year reign of Christ.

You can not discount the Thessalonian. account. it says that the saved will meet the Lord in the air. This is specific. The return in like manner in the Acts verse you quoted only says that he will return is a similar manner as he left, but he will only decend to the point that the saved will meet him in the air. The Bible must harmonize, and to discount the Thessalonian account is to cause the Bible to contridict itself.

JustAChristian

 

[biblicalanser4u]

ok time to start a new thread

It will be called : "No, Pre, Mid, Post Tribulation Rature!

 

[Kevin]

biblicalanser4u,

Howdy.

Well, I don't hope to be saved Kevin, I am ASSURED I am.

Indeed, anybody who does the will of God will be saved. As long as one does the will of God, that person can have assurance of salvation.

You have a problem with Eternal Security.

If you are referring to OSAS, you bet I do, because it's not supported by the scriptures.

You have an inadequate concept of Salvation.

Hardly.

You think of salvation as being simply the forgiveness of sins

In Romans 6, the apostle Paul describes one who is free from sin as being dead to sin and alive to God through Jesus Christ. (Romans 6:11). So, if you are free from sin, you are alive to God. People who are alive to God will certainly be saved.

so if further sin is committed it is naturally felt that should you die before doing something to get forgiveness, you would be lost.

Everybody sins. God knows who has a repentative heart and who doesn't. Those who willfully sin and do not care, thus turning their backs on God, will go to Hell.

The committing of a sin cannot reverse all of these works which God has done in your behalf.

It most certainly can if not repented of.

There are those that hold what is known as "conditional security," that is, that you are secure in Christ as far as His safekeeping is concerned, but you still have free will and at any time you decide to,you may "step out of Christ" and be lost again.

Yes, and a good example of "those people" is Paul. Paul told the Galatian brethren:

• They are turning away from God who called them in the grace of Christ to a differnt gospel (Gal. 1:6)
• If they become circumcised, Christ will profit them nothing (Gal. 5:2)
• They have become separated from Christ (Gal. 5:4)
• They have fallen from grace (Gal. 5:4)

Paul was clearly warning the Galatian brethren of the very real possibility that Christ could profit them nothing and that they have fallen from grace if they insisted on circumcision.

And you can't use the classic OSAS cop out of "well, they weren't really saved to begin with". First of all, technically, that statement is correct, because one isn't saved until Christ judges that person worthy of salvation. But, I know what that arguement is trying to say... that they were never in Christ to begin with, or that they never really had a relationship with God. That's false. Those who hide behind this cop out must address points such as:

• If the Galatians practice circumcision, Christ will profit them nothing. Why would Paul point this out if Christ doesn't already profit them?
• They have become estranged from Christ. How can you become separated from something that you were never part of? You must first be part of something to become separated from it.
• They have fallen from grace. How can one fall from something that they never had? That's like saying that one can fall off a ladder without first being upon it. They were in grace and therefore had a relationship with God.

Those that hold this veiw, say that no man can pluck us out of God's hand (John 10:29), but we are free to jump out of our own accord.

That's correct. No man can pluck us from our salvation. Only we (ourselves) can do that, by not following Him.

By the way, are you going to respond to Evangelion in the Dispensation thread?

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

Hello again.

Just an hint Kevin, why don´t you let Jesus make you just , and righteous, and just yield your vessel to Jesus so he can do all the obeying and works.

Um... because we are the ones commanded to obey Christ's commandments, not Christ. Why would Christ command us to do things if He was going to do them for us?

 

[biblicalanser4u]

Kevin,
Yes, I will respond to Evan. I am working on his questions

I will also respond to yours soon enough

Good day

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Kevin
c.moore,

Hello again.



Um... because we are the ones commanded to obey Christ's commandments, not Christ. Why would Christ command us to do things if He was going to do them for us?

Quote by c.moore
That why Jesus said he is in us like your hand being inside of a puppet.
The hand does the work that is inside the puppet.
All you have to do is let jesus come inside, and you will see Him work with your vessel, just be willing to accept.


Let God bless.:up:

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

That still doesn't change the fact that WE are to keep the commandments, not Christ.

When Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15), He's not talking to Himself, He's talking to Phillip. He's telling Phillip that he who keeps His commandments, which cannot be referring to Christ, loves Him.

 

[Kevin]

biblicalanser4u,

I will also respond to yours soon enough

Respond if you want, but I'm really not looking for a full on OSAS debate right now. I'm still not quite ready to devote the time needed to carry on an in depth discussion. Not to mention this is a thread about baptism, not OSAS. I probably shouldn't have responded, especially in this thread.

I look forward to your debate with Evangelion.

 

[biblicalanser4u]

Kevin,

Thank You for the reply.


Some things are extremely confusing about the Christian life. Many don’t think they are saved because they didn’t feel like they were saved.
Maybe you have doubts. Are you sure you are saved and can’t lose your salvation? Why is there such a problem among Christians on this? There is a reason there is so much confusion. One of many books I’ve red, Where Two Creeds Meet, has a subtitle, “A Biblical Evaluation of Calvinism and Arminianism.

When you read what Calvinists and Arminians say, you can see the responsibility for so much unrest among Christians lies with those who hold these two major theologies and indoctrinate the rest of Christendom. The Calvinists teach God will cause the elect to persevere to the end in their belief. If they don’t persevere, they weren’t saved. That is, they say, they were not one of the elect. One passage they use is 1 Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Arminians teach you’ll be saved if you continue in your faith, a faith which produces a godly life. They present passages like these four: Mat 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. Mat 13:20,21 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 2 Pe 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.

Both of these groups are strongly legalistic. But they both get the basis for their teaching from the Bible. This is where an understanding of the differences between the gospel of the uncircumcision & the gospel of the circumcision is so important practically.

But here’s the problem. These groups get most of the evidence for their creeds from dispensations other than grace, such as the dispensation of law, from Moses to John the Baptist. Another dispensation would be in the gospels where God is ministering only to the Jews, who are called the circumcision. Those dispensations have methods of salvation that are different than our dispensation of grace, today.

There are two gospels in the New Testament. One is the gospel associated with the circumcision covenant. That gospel was conditional and started with Abraham when he was 99 years old. Gen 17:7,9-11,13,14 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 9 And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. . . 13 . . . and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

The second gospel in the New Testament is the uncircumcision gospel. It’s amazing, but the gospel that required faith alone, was revealed in the life of Abram at least 13 years before he was circumcised. It was shown in Gen 15:5,6 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

The two gospels in the New Testament were given to different apostles. Paul wrote in Gal 2:1-9 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision had been committed to me, as the gospel of the circumcision was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

In contrast, let’s look at Peter’s first message of salvation. It was to the Jews in Acts 2:21-24,30-40 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved. 22 Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know – 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call. 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation.

When God sent Peter as a bridge to the Gentiles, the only message he knew was the conditional message of circumcision. They had to be baptized in order to be saved: Acts 10:34-43 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.

In contrast, when we read Paul’s first message of salvation to Jews and Gentiles, he was at Pisidia. We’ll start where he was Speaking about King David: Acts 13:23-39 From this man’s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior – Jesus – 24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was finishing his course, he said, Who do you think I am? I am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. [Christ died] 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, . . . 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The content of the two gospels is different.

In the circumcision gospel.

Their salvation is revealed in the last time:1 Pe 1:5,9 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Water baptism was necessary to be saved: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 1 Pe 3:20,21 the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

They only have assurance, if: 2 Pe 1:10,11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

In contrast, the uncircumcision gospel.

Salvation is now. We have it right now. Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit baptism replaced water baptism: 1 Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body – whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free – and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

The 12 were sent out to baptize, Paul wrote that he was not sent to baptize: 1 Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

Eph 4:4,5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

We have assurance. We are sealed and our salvation is guaranteed until the day of the rapture, the day of redemption: Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Therefore, we can’t lose our salvation.

 

[Kevin]

biblicalanser4u,

That's a pretty long article... too bad it didn't deal with my proofs.

Oh well, not that it really matters to me right now. If we do debate OSAS in the future, it would help if you addressed the proofs given.