The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[rene]

HopeofGlory writes: The new testament is faith in His shed blood for remission NOT a new water baptism. The fact that apostles continued preaching a baptism of repentance for remission after the new testament was given is not proof that water baptism is part of the new testament. Man progressively understood the truths that Christ spoke. Give me one example where an apostle baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Provide the proof text where the apostles at Pentecost taught the new testament of His shed blood for remission.

My reply: None has suggested that faith in Jesus and His sacrifice is not needed. BUT - to refuse to respect and follow His words where He CLEARLY speaks to the need of baptism - is to pick and choose scripture to suit a personal view. It does not reflect the view of Jesus since one makes the choice to discount and not respect His words on the matter.

You say: For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5

My reply: Agree. But those words do NOT discount nor make void the words that Jesus spoke on baptism. If baptism is so unimportant - why didn't Jesus say that it was no longer needed vs His words that say the exact opposite? Why is every person within the NT that comes to the Lord baptised if it is as has been suggested?

You said: Paul said that Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel and Paul was the first apostle to teach the new testament message.

My reply: Paul DID teach and encourage to baptise people. Look at Cornelius and his household for one.

You say: The work of water baptism is performed by man but it is Christ that baptizes with the Spirit. Jesus was water baptized under the law by John and it is up to you to prove otherwise. Paul would disagree with your idea that water baptism is still God's will for us at this time.

My reply: The act of baptism is done by a human. None has said that it wasn't. Just that it is an instruction given by Jesus to follow. Of course Jesus was baptised under the old law - He hadn't died and rose from the dead when He was baptised. BUT - he also spoke and instructed that baptism should be something that was part of sharing the gospel and making disciples. Those are the words of Jesus. Any problem with those words are not with me, but the one that directed it to be that way. I am just the one pointing out His words.

As for myself and many others - we will follow the words of Jesus vs the suggestions from mankind and thier view.

 

[rene]

CoCrucified asks: Pardon me for interjecting, but Rene, where in the above is Jesus saying to baptize people in order that they might be saved? Jesus is telling the Disciples to baptize, because baptism is the next step in acknowledging one's salvation, after they have been saved. i.e. Baptism is a witness/testimony that one has already accepted Christ and therefore has been united with Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

My reply: Are you suggesting that those that were not before, but turn to becoming and following Jesus (disciples as stated within the scripture) is someone that is unsaved? Were they saved before they became disciples?

The words of Jesus are clear that part of one coming to Him is going to have baptism as part of coming to Him. If not - why do you think that He said for such to be part??

 

[rene]

Do you follow all the words of instruction from Jesus - or pick and choose?

Already have shown repeatedly the scriptures where Jesus spoke of the need of baptism. You don't want to follow that - your choice.

Originally posted by Freak
Is water the author & finisher of your faith or Jesus?

 

[rene]

Hopeofglory writes: The so called "Great Commission" is the doctrine of men and it can not be found within the holy bible.

My reply: I quoted the scripture and also called it by the name that many know that portion of scripture by. Not a doctrine of man - but directly from the bible.

Frankly, see no reason to even read the rest if you don't even know the scripture that has been quoted and is within the bible - just to give you a platform to attack. Such is a waste of time.

 

[rene]

Well Freak - God will be the judge of all. I will say that I don't have to resort to attempts at insulting and name calling because I can't support what I have written about from within the bible.

Again, you argument is with the words of Jesus that you seem to want to discount. Not with me.

I would suggest that you prayerfully consider Matt. 7:14-29 as I have previously stated.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene
Well Freak - God will be the judge of all.

God's Word has already judged you as a heretic.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Again, you argument is with the words of Jesus that you seem to want to discount. Not with me.

And Jesus has already stated:

"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

I would suggest that you prayerfully consider Matt. 7:14-29 as I have previously stated.

I would suggest that you humble yourself to Jesus who is Lord and stop boasting about the water.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by rene
Hopeofglory writes: The so called "Great Commission" is the doctrine of men and it can not be found within the holy bible.

My reply: I quoted the scripture and also called it by the name that many know that portion of scripture by. Not a doctrine of man - but directly from the bible.

Frankly, see no reason to even read the rest if you don't even know the scripture that has been quoted and is within the bible - just to give you a platform to attack. Such is a waste of time.

Yes, man has taugh the great commission but their interpretation of the words that Jesus spoke has its bases on the actions of men at Pentecost not the words Jesus spoke on how to receive remission. Paul is called after Pentecost and he is the first man to deliver the new testament for remission and not once does he preach a baptism in water for remission. You have received this "doctrine of men' for remission therefore you are indeed a heretic that does no understand the power of the cross without works of the flesh for remission of sins. Your obedience to water baptism is a false witness for remission and you will die in your sins along with your self righteous doctrine. You need to proved scripture where Christ said that remission of sins would be receive through obedience to water baptism.

I know the scriptures you have quoted, I just don't believe your heretical view of them. I believe in the new testament for remission NOT a water baptism for remission.

If know you're not able to defend your doctrine with scripture so I don't expect you to reply to all that I have written.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by rene
HopeofGlory writes: The new testament is faith in His shed blood for remission NOT a new water baptism. The fact that apostles continued preaching a baptism of repentance for remission after the new testament was given is not proof that water baptism is part of the new testament. Man progressively understood the truths that Christ spoke. Give me one example where an apostle baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Provide the proof text where the apostles at Pentecost taught the new testament of His shed blood for remission.

My reply: None has suggested that faith in Jesus and His sacrifice is not needed. BUT - to refuse to respect and follow His words where He CLEARLY speaks to the need of baptism - is to pick and choose scripture to suit a personal view. It does not reflect the view of Jesus since one makes the choice to discount and not respect His words on the matter.

You say: For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5

My reply: Agree. But those words do NOT discount nor make void the words that Jesus spoke on baptism. If baptism is so unimportant - why didn't Jesus say that it was no longer needed vs His words that say the exact opposite? Why is every person within the NT that comes to the Lord baptised if it is as has been suggested?

You said: Paul said that Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel and Paul was the first apostle to teach the new testament message.

My reply: Paul DID teach and encourage to baptise people. Look at Cornelius and his household for one.

You say: The work of water baptism is performed by man but it is Christ that baptizes with the Spirit. Jesus was water baptized under the law by John and it is up to you to prove otherwise. Paul would disagree with your idea that water baptism is still God's will for us at this time.

My reply: The act of baptism is done by a human. None has said that it wasn't. Just that it is an instruction given by Jesus to follow. Of course Jesus was baptised under the old law - He hadn't died and rose from the dead when He was baptised. BUT - he also spoke and instructed that baptism should be something that was part of sharing the gospel and making disciples. Those are the words of Jesus. Any problem with those words are not with me, but the one that directed it to be that way. I am just the one pointing out His words.

As for myself and many others - we will follow the words of Jesus vs the suggestions from mankind and thier view.

If faith in His shed blood has the power to grant remission then we don't need to be water baptized for remission. You doctrine has blinded you to the truth. Baptism is by the Spirit and it is an operation of God that places us into the body of Christ and it is needed NOT water baptism. Your choice to receive water baptism for remission has made the death of Christ for remision of non effect.

Again, show me where Jesus said remission of sins would be in water baptism!

The training up of Paul would be as the apostles and was progressive but this training up would be accomplished by the Spirit of Christ based on the new testament (Matt. 26:28) and began with his conversion on Damascus road when his name was Saul. After Paul’s conversion we see a progressive change in the message and Paul will participate in the old message until he has progressively received the “mystery” revelations from Christ (Gals. 1:11-12) and at one point Paul was even caught up into heaven (2 Cor. 12:4). Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12 (KJV). Paul did baptize some but scripture testifies that at a later date Christ sent him to the Gentiles and instructed him "not to baptize"(1Cor 1:17). Why did Christ send Paul NOT to baptize? It is because Paul received progressive revelations of a greater witness (John 5:36) that was of God. Water baptism in the dispensation of it's inception through obedience (works) "gave remission of sins" and it can not be argued unless you choose to go against the word of God. The message was one that not only had to be obeyed (Acts 5:32) but it also demanded endurance to the end (Mark 13:13) to receive that remission. Paul now understands by progressive revelation that message is no longer effectual for remission of sins and has been superceded by the greater witness of God at the cross.

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 1 Cor. 1:14 (KJV)

The Gentiles freely received the Pauline message of faith in the new testament and not of works (Rom. 4:6) for they were not of the law (Rom. 6:14) and were without the offense (Acts 13:39-46).

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63 (KJV)

Many do not understand these words of Christ Jesus and believe there is profit in their flesh. Christ is speaking of eternal life (Matt. 26:28) and how it is received and explaining it would not be possible of the flesh. The apostles were jealous of the law (works of the flesh) and did not understand this spiritual offer of eternal life as many continue to do today. Spiritual things are not understood by those who believe eternal life can be attained by their obedience in the flesh and they are offended by the cross because they trust in their own works and not the FINISHED work of Christ.

 

[Kevin]

You answer my question with a question?

You answer my question with a question?

Freak,

Does the Creator save or the created?

Since you seem to have trouble giving me a straight answer to my simple question, I will give you a straight answer to yours, and then I would appreciate the same courtsey to my question.

The Creator saves, not the created.

Now, again, my question, do we have to be reborn to make it to heaven?

 

[rene]

HopeofGlory writes: Yes, man has taugh the great commission but their interpretation of the words that Jesus spoke has its bases on the actions of men at Pentecost not the words Jesus spoke on how to receive remission.

I quote:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (KJV)

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT]. (Analytical-Literal Translation)

Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen. (Literal Translation of the Holy Bible)

Mat 28:18 And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, `Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;
Mat 28:19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them--to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days--till the full end of the age.' (Young's Literal Translation 1898)

Your claims that the words don't mean what they say that they do - but instead want to insist that they have another meaning is not supported when one goes thru and looks at the original words.

Jesus spoke to those going out to spread the gospel and making "disciples" - those that were not followers of Jesus, but would turn towards and receive Him. Baptism is stated.

The word used within Matt. 28:19 for baptism means just that - baptism.

βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
To make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

So much for your suggestion that it was the same type of baptism that John the Baptist practiced.....

 

[JustAChristian]

Ever Learning But Never Able To Come To The Knowledge Of The Truth

Ever Learning But Never Able To Come To The Knowledge Of The Truth

Originally posted by HopeofGlory
The so called "Great Commission" is the doctrine of men .....

HopeOfGlory has nothing but a hope of glory. He does not listen to anything that is given to him. He is a dispensationalist and a follower of those like Scofield and other that teach a 2nd gospel different that that of the 12 apostles. Since he can not prove a second gospel nothing that he teaches is true. He is not able to be born again because he does not love the truth but only that which will confuse the weak of unlearned. God's truth lies in the one gospel which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who would believe; to the Jew first but also to the Greek or Gentile (Romans 1:16). There is the doctrine of water and Spirit in that gospel. It tells us how to be born again by the word. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ for all generations.

If Jesus says we must be born again, then there must be something wrong with our first birth.
The thing wrong with the “first birth” is that “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). “As it is written, ‘There is none righteous, no not one’” (Rom. 3:10). “And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s Book of life” (Rev 21:27). He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father and before His angels (Rev 3:5).

Nicodemus needed to be reborn because his physical life was not sufficient to gain heaven’s domain. Like everyone who lives on the earth, he was commanded to be born of the water and the Spirit. Without this one cannot enter heaven. This is done when one “...obey (s) from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you” (Rom. 6:17). What is the form of doctrine which was delivered you? It is the gospel. This is all that the apostles delivered unto salvation (Rom 1:16). Therefore to obey the gospel is to be born again (Hebrews 5:8-9). Jesus told the apostles “Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel (the good news of God’s salvation, justification and glorification (grace) to every creature; he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned” (Mark 16:15-16).

David was born into a world riddled with sin. No one is born a sinner as the Calvinist and Catholics teach, because the Bible plainly teaches that “...the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth” not infancy (Gen 8:21). Man is not born evil but digresses at an early age. The Catholics tried to dodge this issue by making Mary “immaculate” saying that she did not inherit sin so Jesus would not be born with sin, but it is a “wresting of the scriptures to their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16). Ezekiel also wrote that man does not inherit sin saying, “The soul that sinneth it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him” (Ezekiel 18:20).

As for David recognizing his need of a new birth. This concept was never preached by any prophet before Jesus (John 1:17). Those under the preaching of the OLD Testament prophets and the law were to be in obedient to the law. This did not save them, but their righteousness is observed in their faith (see Hebrews 11 for the family of faith), and the blood of Christ covers them (Heb. 9:15). Jesus requires a new nature called “the new birth” under the NEW Testament. “Whosoever will can partake of the waters of life”, not just a predetermined number that is numbered by God. God gives man free will and he must exercise it in obedience of faith (Rom 1:5).

Holy Spirit baptism was not possible to bury the old man of sin. We are to bury the old man of sin. The old man of sin is buried in water baptism Since baptism by immersion is essential to the burial of the old man of sin. And since the old man of sin cannot enter into heaven, therefore, it is essential that one be baptized in water in order to enter heaven. If not, why not? “He that believeth”...excludes babies. Babies are “safe” until they know that they have sinned. It is essential to repent, but the concept of repentance comes at an age of understanding.

JustAChristian :angel:

 

[rene]

Freak, when you make comments such as this, "God's Word has already judged you as a heretic" - I feel the need to remind you that it is not wise to bear false witness against a child of God.

I take it that you read the scripture that I quoted to you. Your replies reflect very well what is written within that scripture alot. They show that what is within Matt. 7 is something that you had better prayerfully consider while there is still time because your reflecting what is shown within that portion of scripture.

 

[rene]

Hopeofglory writes: If faith in His shed blood has the power to grant remission then we don't need to be water baptized for remission.

My reply: Jesus said to baptise (Matt. 28:18). Peter after being taught by Jesus for 3 years, listened to His instructions on what to do to spread the gospel of truth to the world, under the direction of the Holy Spirit preached these very words:

Act 2:38 Peter said, "Turn back to God! Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will be given the Holy Spirit.

I follow the words inspired by the Holy Spirit vs your suggestions. I learn from the one that followed the instructions as given in Matt. 28 that attempts have been made to aid in your understanding.

 

[rene]

Hopeofglory makes a wrong assumption with this comment: Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12

Quote from scripture:

Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.
Act 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Per scripture, it was the LORD that instructed and directed what happened. It happened just as Jesus stated in Matt. 28.

Name one person in the NT that came to be a Christian that was not baptized.

 

[rene]

Hopeofglory makes their misunderstanding known with these words: Paul did baptize some but scripture testifies that at a later date Christ sent him to the Gentiles and instructed him "not to baptize"(1Cor 1:17)

1 Corinthians 1 -
Overview
1Co_1:1, After his salutation and thanksgiving, 1Co_1:10. he exhorts them to unity, 1Co_1:12. and reproves their dissensions; 1Co_1:18, God destroys the wisdom of the wise, 1Co_1:21. by the foolishness of preaching; 1Co_1:26, and calls not the wise, mighty, and noble, 1Co_1:28. but the foolish, weak, and men of no account.

Paul didn't speak against baptism - he himself followed that very teaching. If you read the whole of the verse - you will see that clearly. He even speaks of those that he has baptized. A simple reading of the chapter shows that there were divisons because of lack of understanding - which the letter is directing instruction on. Not what was suggested, as is clearly seen when the whole of the chapter is read.

Picking out a single verse and attempting to make it fit your suggestion is not sound study or approach to the bible, the gospel of truth.

Sheesh - was going to break each of your comments and show the same thing in each post - but frankly - anyone that really cracks open the bible is going to see it. No need to point that out. But would point out that you have est. a pattern in all your points within this thread that show this type of approach.. Pick and choose, attempt to suggest something to mean what it clearly doesn't indicate when broken down from the original language is just plain dishonest and wrong. Such an approach isn't something that I find any supporting verse or example of within the bible.

 

[CoCrucified]

Originally posted by rene
So there is one that refuses to see the words of Jesus and see that there is more than confession and that baptism was instructed by Jesus - then another that wants to suggest that what Jesus said after His resurrection doesn't mean what He said?

Rene,

Are you not "picking and choosing" when you refuse to acknowledge all the passages posted in this thread that say we are justified by faith alone?

I'm not ignoring any of it. I believe all of Sctipture in the inspired word of God.

You have to carefully compare different passages with one another. It's important to consider who the writer of the Gospel or Epistle was addressing, and it's also crucial to read the entire context of the passage to determine if the verse is refering to water baptism or baptism by the Holy Spirit.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by rene
HopeofGlory writes: Yes, man has taugh the great commission but their interpretation of the words that Jesus spoke has its bases on the actions of men at Pentecost not the words Jesus spoke on how to receive remission.

I quote:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (KJV)

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT]. (Analytical-Literal Translation)

Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen. (Literal Translation of the Holy Bible)

Mat 28:18 And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, `Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;
Mat 28:19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them--to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days--till the full end of the age.' (Young's Literal Translation 1898)

Your claims that the words don't mean what they say that they do - but instead want to insist that they have another meaning is not supported when one goes thru and looks at the original words.

Jesus spoke to those going out to spread the gospel and making "disciples" - those that were not followers of Jesus, but would turn towards and receive Him. Baptism is stated.

The word used within Matt. 28:19 for baptism means just that - baptism.

βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
To make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

So much for your suggestion that it was the same type of baptism that John the Baptist practiced.....

Jesus said all that believed and were baptized will be saved, I believed and was baptized by the Spirit NOT water thus I am saved. I was water baptized after my salvation therefore it was not for remission of sins. The baptism Christ spoke of is not of the flesh. It is Christ words that tell us that the flesh profiteth nothing therfore His words must be understood in the Spiritual sense. Your interpretation of His words is no better than Catholicism's attempted to cannibalize the body of Christ.

I believe His words just as they were spoken without the addition of water. Jesus said that He would baptize with the Holy Ghost therefore baptism is possible without water unless you don't believe Him.

Your reading comprehension is lacking to say the lest. I never said that the baptism that Jesus taught is the same as the baptist's, as a matter of fact I have argued to the contrary. I did say that water baptism at Pentecost was the same as the Baptist's, both were a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

 

[Freak]

Re: You answer my question with a question?

Re: You answer my question with a question?

Originally posted by Kevin
Freak,





The Creator saves, not the created.

I'm glad to hear you agree with me & Scripture.

Now, again, my question, do we have to be reborn to make it to heaven?

You have to have Jesus to get eternal life not water.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by rene
Hopeofglory makes a wrong assumption with this comment: Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12

Quote from scripture:

Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.
Act 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Per scripture, it was the LORD that instructed and directed what happened. It happened just as Jesus stated in Matt. 28.

Name one person in the NT that came to be a Christian that was not baptized.

That was a feeble attempt at best to have us believe that the Lord instructed Ananias to command Paul to be water baptized.

All the water in the world will not wash away your sins!

What we must recognize is the vast difference between remission under the ordinances of the law and the precious blood of the lamb of God (grace). The apostles remained jealous of the law (works) and offerings for sin (Acts 21:26) after the cross even up to the Jerusalem council (Acts 21:20). Paul’s epistles clearly reveal the law was an offence to the cross (Roms. 5:19-20) and it was the most important message second only to the cross which done away with the law (Col. 2:14).

 

[rene]

CoCrucified asked: Are you not "picking and choosing" when you refuse to acknowledge all the passages posted in this thread that say we are justified by faith alone?

My reply: No. I have not refused to acknowledge that the scriptures are there at all. All one has to do is some simple study to find out that those words were written to people that were already in relationship with God and had followed His instructions. It shouldn't be needed to repeat to someone something that needs to be done after they have already done it. The written scriptures cover - depending on the source - over a 65 year period at the least. The gospel covered such an area of the world that the comment was made that they were 'overturning the world'. The words of Jesus were known. It was known what happened after conversion and acceptance of Jesus (brought before authorities because of it even). 3,000 converted in one day alone at the start - word spread quickly.

Name one believer within the NT that wasn't baptized - just ONE.