The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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rene
New member
Freak wrote: But did He say water was necessary to know Him?
Have given you several verses already where Jesus taught about baptism and that the apostles were to go and baptize. It is part of the scriptures that many call the "Great Commission".
Jesus taught it and told that it should be done - that makes it needed. You on the other hand seem intent on suggesting otherwise - which is totally opposite of what Jesus taught. You have suggested that it only makes people "wet" in one post - but seem to fail to understand how such a comment goes totally against the teachings of Jesus. Since you are attempting to 'teach' a different message than Jesus did - that more than puts into question your suggestion.
Better to follow Jesus. Thru Him and His teachings, one finds eternal life.
Have given you several verses already where Jesus taught about baptism and that the apostles were to go and baptize. It is part of the scriptures that many call the "Great Commission".
Jesus taught it and told that it should be done - that makes it needed. You on the other hand seem intent on suggesting otherwise - which is totally opposite of what Jesus taught. You have suggested that it only makes people "wet" in one post - but seem to fail to understand how such a comment goes totally against the teachings of Jesus. Since you are attempting to 'teach' a different message than Jesus did - that more than puts into question your suggestion.
Better to follow Jesus. Thru Him and His teachings, one finds eternal life.
CoCrucified
New member
I'm sure this may have been posted somewhere in this thread, but just in case...
Isn't this a strange thing for Paul to say, if Baptism is necessary for salvation?
"I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name."
1 Cor 1:14-15 (NKJV)
Isn't this a strange thing for Paul to say, if Baptism is necessary for salvation?
"I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name."
1 Cor 1:14-15 (NKJV)
Freak
New member
Again did Jesus teach that you must get wet to know Him??? Answer the question?
Allow me to tell you what Jesus tells us:
"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Belief in Christ is needed for salvation. Jesus never taught you needed water to know HIM. That is a lie. It's just Jesus. I'll follow what Jesus says. You can focus on water. I'll focus on Jesus.
When you praise--do you praise Jesus or water?
rene
New member
Freak sidesteps with these words: Again did Jesus teach that you must get wet to know Him??? Answer the question?
My quote from Jesus:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
What part of His words don't you grasp? Jesus taught it. Because Jesus teaches it, it's important.
Your suggestions are just that - yours. They do not reflect the total teaching or intent that Jesus clear said.
I have no question for you - - I am stating the words of Jesus. It is Him that you seem to have a dispute with. His words don't seem to go along with what you seem to want to promote.
Me? I follow Jesus, His words, His teachings.
My quote from Jesus:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
What part of His words don't you grasp? Jesus taught it. Because Jesus teaches it, it's important.
Your suggestions are just that - yours. They do not reflect the total teaching or intent that Jesus clear said.
I have no question for you - - I am stating the words of Jesus. It is Him that you seem to have a dispute with. His words don't seem to go along with what you seem to want to promote.
Me? I follow Jesus, His words, His teachings.
Freak
New member
Jesus said that to His followers silly....those who already knew Him!!!!! Your silly.
But did not Jesus tell us:
"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
What part of His words don't you grasp? Jesus taught it. Because Jesus teaches it, it's important.
Your suggestions are just that - yours. They do not reflect the total teaching or intent that Jesus clear said.
I have no question for you - - I am stating the words of Jesus. It is Him that you seem to have a dispute with. His words don't seem to go along with what you seem to want to promote.
Me? I follow Jesus, His words, His teachings.
rene
New member
Freak writes: Jesus said that to His followers silly....those who already knew Him!!!!! Your silly.
My reply: Ah - this is a direct QUOTE of Jesus' instructions - as already stated - taken from the portion of scripture tha is commonly known as the "Great Commision". Instructions to be FOLLOWED. There is no 'if you don't feel like it or don't agree with it you don't have to' anywhere within there at all. These were the instructions on what to do for starting the church/bride of Christ. Things to be followed - unless one is going to follow along your viewpoint and ignore His/Jesus' words.
As I am sure your well aware of - you can do anything that you want. Just don't slap a label on it and suggest that what you say represents Jesus when His own words go directly against what you want to suggest.
It's clear to see what your doing - picking out verses that seem to suggest support for what you want to claim - till one reads the whole of the book.
My reply: Ah - this is a direct QUOTE of Jesus' instructions - as already stated - taken from the portion of scripture tha is commonly known as the "Great Commision". Instructions to be FOLLOWED. There is no 'if you don't feel like it or don't agree with it you don't have to' anywhere within there at all. These were the instructions on what to do for starting the church/bride of Christ. Things to be followed - unless one is going to follow along your viewpoint and ignore His/Jesus' words.
As I am sure your well aware of - you can do anything that you want. Just don't slap a label on it and suggest that what you say represents Jesus when His own words go directly against what you want to suggest.
It's clear to see what your doing - picking out verses that seem to suggest support for what you want to claim - till one reads the whole of the book.
Freak
New member
It is a common theme throughout the Gospels:
"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Was Jesus lying when He said these things???
rene
New member
Hey, you want to ignore the very words of Jesus found within the bible - your choice.
Ignore the fact that there is none found within the bible that came to Jesus were left unbaptized. Your choice.
You can ignore the very words of Jesus. Your choice.
Just don't suggest that what you think and believe is anywhere close to being as important as the very teachings of Jesus. They aren't.
Ignore the fact that there is none found within the bible that came to Jesus were left unbaptized. Your choice.
You can ignore the very words of Jesus. Your choice.
Just don't suggest that what you think and believe is anywhere close to being as important as the very teachings of Jesus. They aren't.
Freak
New member
The burden of proof lies with you to tell me where Jesus said you must be baptized in water to know HIM.
In light of these words of Jesus Himself:
"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
I believe mere belief in Him is all one needs.
Go ahead and focus on water I'll focus on Jesus!
rene
New member
No Freak, the burden is upon YOURSELF to prove what you want to suggest is 'true'.
I already showed where Jesus spoke directly to baptism. Already have shown that none within the bible that are Christian are left unbaptized. The exact opposite in fact is what is found.
Again, you don't like what is found within the 'Great Commission' - that is your choice. Me? I will follow the instructions that were left to His followers to share with the world as they went about sharing the gospel.
I already showed where Jesus spoke directly to baptism. Already have shown that none within the bible that are Christian are left unbaptized. The exact opposite in fact is what is found.
Again, you don't like what is found within the 'Great Commission' - that is your choice. Me? I will follow the instructions that were left to His followers to share with the world as they went about sharing the gospel.
JustAChristian
New member
Was Paul Discounting Baptism?
Was Paul Discounting Baptism?
The Corinthian church was "puffed up." Many were following men instead of Christ. Paul is merely telling them that he is glad that he was not responsible directly for bringing them into Christ through baptism lest they should further boast of being a disciple of Paul and not a follower of the Lord. He never discounted baptism and in several places uses it or teaches about it (Romans 6:3-5; Acts 19:1-6; Gal. 3:27 et al). Now go back and read chapter one of 1st Corinthians with the thought in mind that I have given you. Have a great rest of the day.
JustAChristian
:angel:
Was Paul Discounting Baptism?
The Corinthian church was "puffed up." Many were following men instead of Christ. Paul is merely telling them that he is glad that he was not responsible directly for bringing them into Christ through baptism lest they should further boast of being a disciple of Paul and not a follower of the Lord. He never discounted baptism and in several places uses it or teaches about it (Romans 6:3-5; Acts 19:1-6; Gal. 3:27 et al). Now go back and read chapter one of 1st Corinthians with the thought in mind that I have given you. Have a great rest of the day.
JustAChristian
:angel:
JustAChristian
New member
Knowing Jesus.
Knowing Jesus.
How does Jesus know those who are his?
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Since baptism for the remission of sins is a commandment of Christ (Mark 16:16), it stands to reason that we know him only if we are immersed as he commanded.
JustAChristian
:angel:
Knowing Jesus.
How does Jesus know those who are his?
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Since baptism for the remission of sins is a commandment of Christ (Mark 16:16), it stands to reason that we know him only if we are immersed as he commanded.
JustAChristian
:angel:
Kevin
New member
Freak,
How can you say you are "focusing" on Christ when you bash Christ's commandment of baptism for the remission of sins?
We preach the same formula for converting sinners as the apostles did... just look at Pentecost, and you're bashing us for it. What you are really doing is belittling Christ's commandment of baptism. You're focused on Christ? Doesn't sound that way...
How can you say you are "focusing" on Christ when you bash Christ's commandment of baptism for the remission of sins?
We preach the same formula for converting sinners as the apostles did... just look at Pentecost, and you're bashing us for it. What you are really doing is belittling Christ's commandment of baptism. You're focused on Christ? Doesn't sound that way...
rene
New member
What I see is someone so focused upon his own views that he isn't looking at the very words of Jesus.
Reminds me of a portion of scripture:
Mat 7:15 Watch out for false prophets! They dress up like sheep, but inside they are wolves who have come to attack you.
Mat 7:16 You can tell what they are by what they do. No one picks grapes or figs from thornbushes.
Mat 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that produces bad fruit will be chopped down and burned.
Mat 7:20 You can tell who the false prophets are by their deeds.
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in.
Mat 7:22 On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles."
Mat 7:23 But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"
Mat 7:24 Anyone who hears and obeys these teachings of mine is like a wise person who built a house on solid rock.
Reminds me of a portion of scripture:
Mat 7:15 Watch out for false prophets! They dress up like sheep, but inside they are wolves who have come to attack you.
Mat 7:16 You can tell what they are by what they do. No one picks grapes or figs from thornbushes.
Mat 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that produces bad fruit will be chopped down and burned.
Mat 7:20 You can tell who the false prophets are by their deeds.
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in.
Mat 7:22 On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles."
Mat 7:23 But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"
Mat 7:24 Anyone who hears and obeys these teachings of mine is like a wise person who built a house on solid rock.
JustAChristian
New member
Quoting Good Verses...
Quoting Good Verses...
Quoting Good Verses...
JustAChristian
New member
Quoting Good Verses...
Quoting Good Verses...
Freak,
You are quoting some good verses, but in no way have you discounted the necessity of baptism for the remission of sins. Yes, everyone that believes in Jesus will have eternal life, but if you are not baptized you show that you really didn't believe in Jesus, because he commanded you to be baptized.
Yes, we will be spiritually fed and made full and in need of no spiritual needs in Jesus, but we must be baptized in order to get into Jesus (Gal. 3:27).
Looking to Jesus is looking to his commandments. Baptism is one of his commandments.
Amen! Didn't he teach baptism?
funny you should mention "total teaching" when you don't teach the total teaching of Jesus.
Freak, you continue to "beg the question" in this debate. Don't you want to debate by the rules? Prove all things. Don't beg the question.
JustAChristian :angel:
Quoting Good Verses...
Freak,
You are quoting some good verses, but in no way have you discounted the necessity of baptism for the remission of sins. Yes, everyone that believes in Jesus will have eternal life, but if you are not baptized you show that you really didn't believe in Jesus, because he commanded you to be baptized.
Yes, we will be spiritually fed and made full and in need of no spiritual needs in Jesus, but we must be baptized in order to get into Jesus (Gal. 3:27).
Looking to Jesus is looking to his commandments. Baptism is one of his commandments.
Amen! Didn't he teach baptism?
funny you should mention "total teaching" when you don't teach the total teaching of Jesus.
Freak, you continue to "beg the question" in this debate. Don't you want to debate by the rules? Prove all things. Don't beg the question.
JustAChristian :angel:
rene
New member
Re: Knowing Jesus.
Re: Knowing Jesus.
Agree. Here are some other insights that I HOPE the one will really seriously pray about.
1Jo 2:3 When we obey God, we are sure that we know him.
1Jo 2:4 But if we claim to know him and don't obey him, we are lying and the truth isn't in our hearts.
1Jo 2:5 We truly love God only when we obey him as we should, and then we know that we belong to him.
1Jo 2:6 If we say we are his, we must follow the example of Christ.
It simple. Follow the instructions. Jesus gave the instructions on how to share he gospel and what to do when people came to Him.
The example is clear. Jesus was baptized. He gave instructions for baptism.
It isn't a multiple choice option. It is laid out clearly to those that will but read and follow the very words of Jesus.
For those that want to play the games of thinking that they can pick and choose - they are in a very unstable place.
Re: Knowing Jesus.
Agree. Here are some other insights that I HOPE the one will really seriously pray about.
1Jo 2:3 When we obey God, we are sure that we know him.
1Jo 2:4 But if we claim to know him and don't obey him, we are lying and the truth isn't in our hearts.
1Jo 2:5 We truly love God only when we obey him as we should, and then we know that we belong to him.
1Jo 2:6 If we say we are his, we must follow the example of Christ.
It simple. Follow the instructions. Jesus gave the instructions on how to share he gospel and what to do when people came to Him.
The example is clear. Jesus was baptized. He gave instructions for baptism.
It isn't a multiple choice option. It is laid out clearly to those that will but read and follow the very words of Jesus.
For those that want to play the games of thinking that they can pick and choose - they are in a very unstable place.
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HopeofGlory
New member
Just,
I asked you when did the waters of baptism change and you responded:
I need an answer!!!!
You're saying that the baptism of repentance by John was under the law and that Jesus gave us a 'new' water baptism?
I want you to explain the difference and provide the proof text for your assumption or you must accept the fact that water baptism is a commandment under the law.
Jesus was born under the law and obeyed thus fulfilling the law and those that would say we must follow Jesus in water baptism would chose to reinstate the law that Christ died to remove.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:6
I asked you when did the waters of baptism change and you responded:
I need an answer!!!!
You're saying that the baptism of repentance by John was under the law and that Jesus gave us a 'new' water baptism?
I want you to explain the difference and provide the proof text for your assumption or you must accept the fact that water baptism is a commandment under the law.
Jesus was born under the law and obeyed thus fulfilling the law and those that would say we must follow Jesus in water baptism would chose to reinstate the law that Christ died to remove.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:6