The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene
What I see is someone so focused upon his own views that he isn't looking at the very words of Jesus.

The apostle Paul tells us:

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Salvation for those who get wet? Nope. Everyone who believes.

And what did Jesus tell us:

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies.

As for me and my household I'll believe Jesus!!! You worshipper of water!!!

 

[rene]

HopeofGlory wrote: I want you to explain the difference and provide the proof text for your assumption or you must accept the fact that water baptism is a commandment under the law.

Not written to me - but I can point you to the answer.

Mat 28:19 Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

This verse was written AFTER Jesus died. New covenant is in effect. If in doubt about that - read just a few verses above and you will see talk of suggesting the story of the apostles taking the body of Jesus to place doubt on Him being raised from the dead.

Jesus directed comments about baptism after His death and reserection. That such was indeed what was done as they started to spread the gospel is seen withn Acts 2:38. They followed the words of Jesus to spead the gospel.

No example is found within the NT of a believer that didn't follow in baptism. Many are there that show that they were baptized - following the teaching found within the words of Jesus.

The work done by baptism is not mans. It is taught by Jesus. Jesus reflected God's will. Jesus didn't even start into ministry till after His own baptism - Him following the will of His Father. A will that God still has as we are told repeatedly within scripture that we are to follow Jesus and His example.

 

[rene]

Freak - BELIEVES. To BELIEVE in Jesus means that one follows His example and His words.

I know that you don't want to face this - and you sure have been trying hard to avoid it. Jesus SAID to baptize. Jesus was baptized.

It isn't a difficult point to grasp. Get a 'red letter' bible and you will see that Jesus said it. Your disagreement isn't with me. Your disagreement is with the bible and the words of Jesus.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene
Jesus SAID to baptize. Jesus was baptized.

Jesus died on the Cross, should we then? Your logic is astounding.

It isn't a difficult point to grasp.

I know. So why are you having such a hard time understanding?

Get a 'red letter' bible and you will see that Jesus said it.

Ok. This is what I came up with: "...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


Your disagreement isn't with me. Your disagreement is with the bible and the words of Jesus. Ha!

 

[Kevin]

rene,

Just to warn you, HopeofGlory is a dispensationilist that believes that the baptism in Acts 2:38 is the same as John the baptist's. I've tried to get him to see many times that a new baptism was instuted by Christ in the great commission. He doesn't believe that a new water baptism was instituted, even when Acts 19:1-5 is pointed out to him.

He doesn't even believe that the NT message was preached at Pentecost. Strange, yes... but that what he thinks.

He believes that we are automatically baptized by the HS upon believing the word, at which point you are supposedly saved.

Just a little forewarning so you can have an idea of what to expect....

 

[CoCrucified]

Re: Was Paul Discounting Baptism?

Re: Was Paul Discounting Baptism?

Originally posted by JustAChristian
The Corinthian church was "puffed up." Many were following men instead of Christ. Paul is merely telling them that he is glad that he was not responsible directly for bringing them into Christ through baptism lest they should further boast of being a disciple of Paul and not a follower of the Lord. He never discounted baptism and in several places uses it or teaches about it (Romans 6:3-5; Acts 19:1-6; Gal. 3:27 et al). Now go back and read chapter one of 1st Corinthians with the thought in mind that I have given you. Have a great rest of the day.

JustAChristian

:angel:

I'm not disputing the context of the passage. I'm well aware of that. I'm just saying that if water Baptism were essential for salvation, I can't imagine Paul under any circumstances, saying he was glad that he baptized no one.

I believe the below verse is similar. Although some were preaching the Gospel for the wrong reasons, Paul was thankful that the Gospel was being preached.
"Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from good will: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
Phil 1:15-18 (NKJV)

Do any of you that are saying water Baptism is necessary for salvation, notice that there are two baptisms? One with water, the other with the Holy Spirit?
"I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Mark 1:8 (NKJV)

"Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Acts 11:16 (NKJV)

I don't know how anyone can think that water Baptism would not be considered "works."
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Eph 2:8-9 (NKJV)

How was the thief on the cross saved without water Baptism?
"And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.'
Luke 23:43 (NKJV)

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,"
Romans 4:5 (NKJV)
No baptism mentioned in the above verse at all.

Water Baptism, like circumcision in the Old Testament, is a sign before others that one has accepted the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. As circumcision cannot save, so water baptism cannot save. We are commanded to be Baptized as a witness of our faith.
"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Romans 4:11 (NKJV)

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation."
Gal 6:15 (NKJV)

 

[Freak]

Re: Re: Was Paul Discounting Baptism?

Re: Re: Was Paul Discounting Baptism?

Originally posted by CoCrucified
I'm not disputing the context of the passage. I'm well aware of that. I'm just saying that if water Baptism were essential for salvation, I can't imagine Paul under any circumstances, saying he was glad that he baptized no one.

I believe the below verse is similar. Although some were preaching the Gospel for the wrong reasons, Paul was thankful that the Gospel was being preached.
"Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from good will: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
Phil 1:15-18 (NKJV)

Do any of you that are saying water Baptism is necessary for salvation, notice that there are two baptisms? One with water, the other with the Holy Spirit?
"I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Mark 1:8 (NKJV)

I don't know how anyone can think that water Baptism would not be considered "works."
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Eph 2:8-9 (NKJV)

How was the thief on the cross saved without water Baptism?
"And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
Luke 23:43 (NKJV)

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,"
Romans 4:5 (NKJV)
No baptism mentioned in the above verse at all.

Water Baptism, like circumcision in the Old Testament, is a sign before others that one has accepted the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. As circumcision cannot save, so water baptism cannot save. We are commanded to be Baptized as a witness of our faith.
"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Romans 4:11 (NKJV)

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation."
Gal 6:15 (NKJV)

Good points!!!!:thumb: :thumb:

 

[HopeofGlory]

rene,

Mat 28:19 Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

This verse was written AFTER Jesus died. New covenant is in effect. If in doubt about that - read just a few verses above and you will see talk of suggesting the story of the apostles taking the body of Jesus to place doubt on Him being raised from the dead.

The new testament is faith in His shed blood for remission NOT a new water baptism. The fact that apostles continued preaching a baptism of repentance for remission after the new testament was given is not proof that water baptism is part of the new testament. Man progressively understood the truths that Christ spoke. Give me one example where an apostle baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Provide the proof text where the apostles at Pentecost taught the new testament of His shed blood for remission.

Jesus directed comments about baptism after His death and reserection. That such was indeed what was done as they started to spread the gospel is seen withn Acts 2:38. They followed the words of Jesus to spead the gospel.

For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5

No example is found within the NT of a believer that didn't follow in baptism. Many are there that show that they were baptized - following the teaching found within the words of Jesus.

Paul said that Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel and Paul was the first apostle to teach the new testament message.

The work done by baptism is not mans. It is taught by Jesus. Jesus reflected God's will. Jesus didn't even start into ministry till after His own baptism - Him following the will of His Father. A will that God still has as we are told repeatedly within scripture that we are to follow Jesus and His example.

The work of water baptism is performed by man but it is Christ that baptizes with the Spirit. Jesus was water baptized under the law by John and it is up to you to prove otherwise. Paul would disagree with your idea that water baptism is still God's will for us at this time.

John under the law taught a baptism of repentance for remission and Christ died to remove that law for remission by giving us a new testimony for remission that is not by works of righteousness.

But I have greater witness (new testament) than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. John 5:36

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25
To declare, I say, '''at this time his righteousness''': that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26

'''Not by works of righteousness''' which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (His shed blood for remission): not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor. 1:18

I want you to explain the difference (benefited to man) and provide the proof text for your assumption or you must accept the fact that water baptism is a commandment under the law.

 

[CoCrucified]

Freak,

I apologize if I'm repeating what you have already stated earlier. This is a long thread, so I haven't read all of it.

 

[Kevin]

The basics...

The basics...

Simple question. Do we need to be reborn to make it to heaven?

EDIT: This question is for the one's who oppose baptism's necessity for salvation.

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Good points!!!!

Refuted points.

 

[CoCrucified]

Originally posted by rene
My quote from Jesus:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Pardon me for interjecting, but Rene, where in the above is Jesus saying to baptize people in order that they might be saved? Jesus is telling the Disciples to baptize, because baptism is the next step in acknowledging one's salvation, after they have been saved. i.e. Baptism is a witness/testimony that one has already accepted Christ and therefore has been united with Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

 

[rene]

CoCrucified writes: Baptism is a witness/testimony that one has already accepted Christ and therefore has been united with Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

My reply: Where is that stated within the bible? Jesus didn't state such in the 'Great Commission'.

 

[JustAChristian]

Baptism Has Not Changed.

Baptism Has Not Changed.

Originally posted by HopeofGlory
Just,

I asked you when did the waters of baptism change and you responded:



I need an answer!!!!

You're saying that the baptism of repentance by John was under the law and that Jesus gave us a 'new' water baptism?

I want you to explain the difference and provide the proof text for your assumption or you must accept the fact that water baptism is a commandment under the law.

Jesus was born under the law and obeyed thus fulfilling the law and those that would say we must follow Jesus in water baptism would chose to reinstate the law that Christ died to remove.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:6

HopeofGlory,

I have never said that baptism has changed. The commission changed but baptism for the remission of sins began with John's preaching. The commission changed with Jesus sending his disciples into all the world to preach the gospel and assist the converts to Christianity in obeying that gospel through baptism, like Philip with the eunuch (Acts 8).

Yes Jesus was born under the Law of Moses, but God changed the Law that Christ could be our High Priest. We are now under the commission of the High Priest, Jesus Christ. When we work the works of God under the leadership of Jesus Christ we fulfill all the counsel of God. Baptism for the remission of sins is of that counsel and must be obeyed.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene
CoCrucified writes: Baptism is a witness/testimony that one has already accepted Christ and therefore has been united with Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

My reply: Where is that stated within the bible? Jesus didn't state such in the 'Great Commission'.

Is water the author & finisher of your faith or Jesus?

 

[Freak]

Re: The basics...

Re: The basics...

Originally posted by Kevin
Simple question. Do we need to be reborn to make it to heaven?

EDIT: This question is for the one's who oppose baptism's necessity for salvation.

Does the Creator save or the created?

 

[JustAChristian]

Water Baptism Is Still Essential For Salvation

Water Baptism Is Still Essential For Salvation

Originally posted by Freak
Is water the author & finisher of your faith or Jesus?

The Bible tells us that some people will never be saved. In fact they will never come to love the truth of the scriptures and be saved. They are the servants of Satan and do his will. Hear Paul tell us: “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:7-11 AV. In spite of many efforts to show some the truth they will never listen. Even the most logical will be ignored. Only that which seeks to justify their lust for deception will suffice. It is in these that Satan works his advantage.

The person that will not hear God’s word is eternally lost. Isaiah said: “He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?” (Isaiah 44:20 AV. God knows the way of the unrighteous and how he will always run in the way of evil yet God is consistently good and considerate of his creation. Of God’s nature Paul said: “If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.” (2 Timothy 2:13 AV). God will not overlook evil and deception in the judgment. The wicked and those that deceive are hated by him. Those who refuse to love the clear teaching of the Bible still be judged by it contents. The Bible clearly teaches that faith, repentance, confession of Jesus Christ and baptism for the remission of sin are all essential for salvation. Many prominent leaders in denominationalism have confessed that, but have decided not to follow it because of the forfeits it often requires. God can not deny himself. His word is the same today as it was in the 1st century. May the world find repentance in Jesus Christ.

JustAChristian :angel:
___________________________________

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Jeremiah 27:10 For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish.

Ezekiel 21:29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.

 

[HopeofGlory]

The so called "Great Commission" is the doctrine of men and it can not be found within the holy bible. The instructions of Christ after the cross were part of the new testament (Matt 26:28) for remission which was not in force until after His death (Heb. 9:17) and are not to be confused with John the Baptist‘s testimony (Mark 1:4) of water baptism for remission before the cross. It can be clearly seen that Jesus instructed the apostles to teach His words and those words when believed would cleanse the heart of sinners (Eph 5:26) washing away their sins and granting the new birth (1 Pet 1:23), therefore water is not needed for remission or to be born again. Jesus did not command the apostles to do the baptizing in water yet the apostles continued preaching the doctrine of the Baptist which was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and the apostles message at Pentecost is completely void of the new testament for remission so they failed to obey these words of Christ....
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt. 28:20 (KJV)

The greatest message every to be delivered to the apostles (Matt 26:28) was not part of their doctrine at Pentecost and the silence of it is deafening.

When asked ... What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (John 6:28)
Jesus said...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29 (KJV)

Simple message but few even today have received it. There is no work needed but faith in the Son of God.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

The message of eternal life is believe that Christ’s shed blood of the new testament for remission is sufficient and nothing more is needed unless you do not believe.

Let's look at what Christ taught the apostles and heed God’s warning by not adding “water” to His words.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev. 22:18 (KJV)

#1
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.... 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

Why would Christ send Paul NOT to baptize if the GREAT COMMISSION was... You apostles go water baptize? There is no rhyme to this type of reasoning. Man’s doctrine teaches water baptism was commanded by Jesus in the “great commission” but this is not biblical terminology.

#2
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt. 28:19 (KJV)

It is clear the apostles are being instructed to teach and the teaching of the word will baptize them. The word is spirit and it is by this word (Eph 5:26) we are baptized...It is the "spirit" that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life John 6:63 (KJV). The quickening of the spirit (baptism) is immediate when the words of the new testament are believed and it is not possible to receive this by the flesh. The new testament is a new testimony with a greater witness (John 5:33-36) for remission of sins (Matt. 26:28) as opposed to the old testimony for remission (Mark 1:4).

The new testament is not a series of books starting with the four gospels but is a greater witness given by Christ and was not in force until after the death of Christ (Heb. 9:17). The apostles never baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost because this Spirit baptism is performed by Christ when we believe His words.


#3
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 (KJV)

Again the teaching but also when one believes the word they are immediately baptized by the word. Believing and baptism by the Spirit are inseparable as is the unbelieving and damnation. This baptism (quickening) is received the moment one believes the "spirit" word of Christ and they are born again. Compare these words spoken to Nicodemus...That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (John 3:6). Again, Jesus delivered this eternal message to Nicodemus as He did to the apostles...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). Nicodemus did not understand this message and Jesus said:
We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. John 3:11 (KJV)
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12 (KJV)

This word of the gospel of Christ is spirit and life eternal in the new testament made possible only by His shed blood.

Jesus said....Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54 (KJV)

The disciples responded....This is an hard saying; who can hear (believe) it? John 6:60 (KJV)

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28 (KJV)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63 (KJV)

#4
Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: Luke 24:46 (KJV)
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47 (KJV)

Christ said that remission of sins would be received through His death. He did not say remission would be in water baptism. The word of the "new" testament for remission of sins must be believed. Christ is clearly explaining how remission of sins would be received and referring to Isaiah 53 where “it is written” He was to suffer. These scriptures not once mention water baptism.

#5
For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5 (KJV)

Christ speaks of the contrast of the two baptisms and confirms it will not be in water BUT Spirit! The contrast was further revealed in that the death of Christ for remission of sins superceded water baptism....But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. John 5:34 (KJV)
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. John 5:35 (KJV)
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. John 5:36 (KJV)

It is clear that the greater witness that would superceded John’s is NOT a ‘new’ water baptism for remission but His shed blood for remission!!!!

By comparing scripture with scripture it is evident the commission was to preach the new testimony for sin remission and when one believes the words of this gospel of Christ they would be baptized by the Spirit. The confusion is had when men go against the warning of God and “ADD” the word “WATER” to the final words of Christ. To be baptized by the Spirit who is Christ (2 Cor 3:17) is to be washed with His words (Eph 5:26) making us holy and without blemish thus no need for ritual washings (Heb 6:1-2).

Jesus instructed the apostles in the "new" testament for remission but they continued to teach the "old" testimony of water baptism for remission at Pentecost. Christ Jesus did “NOT” commission the apostles to “WATER” baptize after He gave a NEW testimony for remission of sins. Paul was the first man to deliver Christ’s eternal message of remission through His shed blood.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through """faith in his blood""", to declare his righteousness """for the remission of sins""" that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25 (KJV)
To declare, I say, """at this time""" his righteousness: that he might be just, and the """justifier of him which believeth in Jesus""". Rom. 3:26 (KJV)

Receive not the doctrine of men but believe the words of the Lord Jesus and receive His offer of everlasting life.

 

[rene]

So there is one that refuses to see the words of Jesus and see that there is more than confession and that baptism was instructed by Jesus - then another that wants to suggest that what Jesus said after His resurrection doesn't mean what He said?

No WONDER so many think that Christians are strange. When you have people that claim the title "Christian" that pick, choose, discount what is written within - what else should be expected?

I will just keep doing what I have been doing. Pointing to scripture. The disagreement then won't be with me - but with the Word of God.

Thanks for the heads up.

Originally posted by Kevin
rene,

Just to warn you, HopeofGlory is a dispensationilist that believes that the baptism in Acts 2:38 is the same as John the baptist's. I've tried to get him to see many times that a new baptism was instuted by Christ in the great commission. He doesn't believe that a new water baptism was instituted, even when Acts 19:1-5 is pointed out to him.

He doesn't even believe that the NT message was preached at Pentecost. Strange, yes... but that what he thinks.

He believes that we are automatically baptized by the HS upon believing the word, at which point you are supposedly saved.

Just a little forewarning so you can have an idea of what to expect....

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene
So there is one that refuses to see the words of Jesus and see.

That would be you. You are a heretic of the worse kind as you point people to water. The apostle Paul warns us of people like you--people who distort the Gospel message.

Jesus said:

"...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

"Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved."

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

No mention of water. I believe Jesus. You believe water.