The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

J

JustAChristian

New member
Faith is a work...

Faith is a work...

Originally posted by Freak


Appreciate the kind words.

My friend, Paul, is rather clear-justification is by faith. We are justified not by good deeds but rather by faith in Jesus. Jesus is enough. We are humans we cannot do anything to save ourselves. But Jesus can!
Click to expand...

Freak,

Don't you know that believing (having faith) is a work? (John 6:29).

Sorry for breaking in on your post Francisco, but these "OSASs Faith onlies" just slay me! Have a great rest of the day.

JustAChristian :angel:
 
F

Francisco

New member
Freak,

I agree with JustAChristian in terms of having faith being a good work.

Regardless, Paul did say we are justified by faith, and I agree. He even said we are not justified by works of the law, and I agree. But the works James speaks of are good works, or good deeds, not the works of the law Paul speaks of in Romans and elsewhere.

Furthermore, Paul NEVER says we're justified by faith ALONE.

You must accept the words of James with equal reverence as the words of Paul as they are both inspired scripture. When you can accept them both and they both fit with your theological answer, then you have probably arrived at the correct conclusion.

God Bless,

Francisco
 
Freak

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Francisco
Freak,

I agree with JustAChristian in terms of having faith being a good work.

Regardless, Paul did say we are justified by faith, and I agree. He even said we are not justified by works of the law, and I agree. But the works James speaks of are good works, or good deeds, not the works of the law Paul speaks of in Romans and elsewhere.

Furthermore, Paul NEVER says we're justified by faith ALONE.

You must accept the words of James with equal reverence as the words of Paul as they are both inspired scripture. When you can accept them both and they both fit with your theological answer, then you have probably arrived at the correct conclusion.

God Bless,

Francisco
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see that you don't see faith as a work because that is simple nonsense. Now, Paul did in fact write rather clearly that justification is by faith in Romans 5:1. James was writing to believers-encouraging them with the truth that works is "a" evidence of ones faith. Works does not bring faith. Putting the cart before the horse never works.
 
F

Francisco

New member
Freak,

James doesn't say good works are merely the result of faith. He says faith without works is dead. In other words, for someone to have faith but not obey the things God wants us to DO is pointless. We have to have faith that works through love, not just a faith based on belief only. Those that have 'dead' faith without works are the people who say 'Lord, Lord' but never really knew Him and Jesus tells us those people will not enter the kingdom of God.

God Bless,

Francisco
 
c.moore

c.moore

New member
Hello JustAchristian

what do you think in the mouth of two or three witnesses mean JustAchristian?????

Can we just take one scripture and make a complete doctrine out of it like the mormon did with the water baptism for the dead for instance????

I wouild like to ask you A question what church do you belong to or have felowship with????

do you have a pastor in your church and do you think all that he preach if you obey and go to a church are lies????

peace
 
G

geralduk

New member
Water baptism though not nescersary to or FOR salvation.
yet IS nescersary so that we may walk PERFECTLY in conformity with His Son.
For "as the Father sent me so send I you"
BEFORE any WORK done by the Lord.The FAther SENT hIM TO BE baptised By WATER and by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Some major so MUCH on the WATER but you never hear from them about the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT(I wonder why that is?)
But what IS this baptism by WATER?
iT IS THE BAPTISM "INTO His DEATH".
Now to those who say it is needed for salvation:
How is it that we are baptised into His death when He DIED 2000 YEARS AGO?
Is it not then by FAITH that we are so baptised?
and if by faith then we are ALREADY saved BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED and are NOW acting by faith in that which is INVISIBLE which our BAPTISM of "FAITH is the substance of things unseen(CRUCYFICTION) and the (VISIBLE) EVIDENCE of thinsg hoped for"
Therefore if we have BELIEVED GOD then we are counted ALREADY rightous!and therefore SAVED!
Yet what then is BAPTISM FOR?
iT IS written
 
G

geralduk

New member
Water baptism though not nescersary to or FOR salvation.
yet IS nescersary so that we may walk PERFECTLY in conformity with His Son.
For "as the Father sent me so send I you"
BEFORE any WORK done by the Lord.The FAther SENT hIM TO BE baptised By WATER and by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Some major so MUCH on the WATER but you never hear from them about the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT(I wonder why that is?)
But what IS this baptism by WATER?
iT IS THE BAPTISM "INTO His DEATH".
Now to those who say it is needed for salvation:
How is it that we are baptised into His death when He DIED 2000 YEARS AGO?
Is it not then by FAITH that we are so baptised?
and if by faith then we are ALREADY saved BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED and are NOW acting by faith in that which is INVISIBLE which our BAPTISM of "FAITH is the substance of things unseen(CRUCYFICTION) and the (VISIBLE) EVIDENCE of thinsg hoped for"
Therefore if we have BELIEVED GOD then we are counted ALREADY rightous!and therefore SAVED!
Yet what then is BAPTISM FOR?
iT IS written that we "-----ARE.........crucyfied .........WITH .....Christ"
When?
God condemned sin in the flesh and has ALREADY judged SIN on calvary IN Christ.
where the BODY OF FLESH was PUT TO DEATH FOR SIN.
Now if we WERE(passed tense) crucyfied WITH CHRIST.
Then when we look BACK to CALVARY by FAITH we see OUR SIN JUDGED in HIS FLESH.
AND BY THE power of GOD THROUGH THE "BLOOD OF HIS CROSS " we ARE reconciled to God"
So with the HEART man belieVETH AND WITH HIS MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO salavtion.
So what is BELIEVED UNSEEN is confessed OPENLY and MANIFESTED to the WORLD.
(THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED with tjhe women with the issue of blood and WHY the Lord brought her out into the open and confess what had happened)
Now we are saved;BORNagain.
yet that is NOT the END but only the BEGINNING of our LIFE.
"wE ARE TO PRESENT OUR BODIES A LIVING SACRAFICE UNTO GOD WHICH IS OUR REASONABLE SERVICE"
So when we get baptised we are LAYING THE FOUNDATION of our LIFE OF SERVICE to GOD.
And a SURE one at that.
WHY?
because we are SUBMITTING OUR BODIES even as we have submitted our hearts to His DEATH.
cONFORMING oursleves PERFECTLY to the WILL of God even as HE DID.
So that as are 'baptised into His death"
We are as we come out conformed ALSO to His RESURECTION.Which is why so often most people are BAPTISED in the SPIRIT for the FIRST time even as HE WAS.
SEE then how much the people of God are ROBBED by not gettign bap[tised and laying such a good foundation for SERTVICE?
For you have OPENLY confessed to heaven and earth and to devils alike YOUR DEATH to SIN and alive to GODand your COMMITMENT to the WORK and KINGDOM of God also.
That from that moment on RAISED from the dead AS IT WERE it "is no longer I that liveth but CHRIST that liveth in me"

In a nutshell:

Baptism in water is the CONFORMITY of the BODY to that which God has Already WROUGHT IN THE HEART. AND YOUR commitment to Him and the KINGDOM.
 
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F

Francisco

New member
geralduk,

I don't know why you refuse to understand the belief so many of us have explained to you regarding water baptism. I don't really care whether you accept the belief or not, but accept our explanation as to why we believe in the salvific value of water baptism, and stop misrepresenting our beliefs to be the substance of water saves and that the Holy Spirit is not necessary for our salvation. Neither of your assertions as such are true, and I believe you know that.

Our belief is:

1) Water baptism and 'Holy Spirit baptism are one and the same. We believe this based on scripture, particular the baptism of Our Lord.

"And when Jesus was baptized, He went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him; and lo, a voice from heaven saying, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased"' (Mt. 3.16-17).

When Jesus gave us the example of baptism, the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus as he came out of the water. And St. Peter told the crowd at Pentecost:

"Peter said to them, 'Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2.38)

Again, it appears to us the gift of the Holy Spirit is given when we are baptized in water. We do not believe the substance of the water itself is going to save us, but by obedience to His command to be baptized and the sincere repentance from sin, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. That gift of the Holy Spirit is what effects our salvation, not the water itself.

St. Paul reflects this belief in his words to Titus:

"He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit which He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3.5)

So our baptism effects us by regeneration, in other words by washing away the evil effects of sin, and renewing our spirit with the gift of the Holy Spirit by which we are 'born again' as children of God.

2) We believe Jesus commanded baptism before entry into heave. Jesus told Nicodemus we must be baptized to enter the kingdom of heaven:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew."(John 3:5-7)

I know you don't believe Jesus was speaking about baptism here, but we do. And it seems strange to me to think he wasn't speaking of baptism, when right after this conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus and the apostles go into Judea and BAPTIZE:

"After this, Jesus and his disciples went in to the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing." (John 3:22)

It doesn't really make alot of sense for St. John to have written these words spoken by Jesus to Nicodemus and then follow up with words about baptism unless baptism was what St. John wanted to emphasize.

And of course you are familiar with the 'Great Commission' of the apostles, when Jesus commanded them to baptize. If baptism had no effect, why would Jesus command this? It just doesn't make sense.

3) The third reason why we believe water baptism is efficacious is the many examples of the apostles actions after Jesus ascended to heaven. Never do we see them praying for someone to be 'baptized in the Holy Spirit', but we see them frequently performing baptisms, many times explicitly in water, and never in some other form or fashion:

As they traveled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?" Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him. (Acts 8.36-38)

"Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people, who have received the holy Spirit even as we have?" (Acts 10.47)

"20 who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. 21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 3.20-21)

In the last example here, St. Peter very clearly says baptism SAVES. Your assertion directly contradicts St. Peter's words, words that are part of our divinely inspired Holy Scripture.

geralduk, I'm not reiterating my beliefs here for arguments sake. As I said before, I don't really care whether you accept my beliefs or not. I write these words again in an effort for you to see our true beliefs, that we RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH WATER BAPTISM.

Please stop the disingenuous practice of purporting we believe the substance of water saves us and that we don't ever speak of receiving the Holy Spirit, as if we believe the Holy Spirit is unnecessary. Again, we believe A PERSON RECEIVES THE HOLY SPIRIT IN WATER BAPTISM.

Furthermore, scripture tells us not of two baptisms, one by water and one by the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit can be received separate from baptism in many other ways. We don't deny this at all. But remember that St. Paul told us:

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (Eph. 4.4-5)

I'll reiterate once more, I don't care if you accept my belief, but please stop misrepresenting my beliefs as 'water saves' or that the Holy Spirit is unnecessary for salvation.

God Bless,

Francisco
 
c.moore

c.moore

New member
Originally posted by geralduk
Water baptism though not nescersary to or FOR salvation.
yet IS nescersary so that we may walk PERFECTLY in conformity with His Son.
For "as the Father sent me so send I you"
BEFORE any WORK done by the Lord.The FAther SENT hIM TO BE baptised By WATER and by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Some major so MUCH on the WATER but you never hear from them about the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT(I wonder why that is?)
But what IS this baptism by WATER?
iT IS THE BAPTISM "INTO His DEATH".
Now to those who say it is needed for salvation:
How is it that we are baptised into His death when He DIED 2000 YEARS AGO?
Is it not then by FAITH that we are so baptised?
and if by faith then we are ALREADY saved BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED and are NOW acting by faith in that which is INVISIBLE which our BAPTISM of "FAITH is the substance of things unseen(CRUCYFICTION) and the (VISIBLE) EVIDENCE of thinsg hoped for"
Therefore if we have BELIEVED GOD then we are counted ALREADY rightous!and therefore SAVED!
Yet what then is BAPTISM FOR?
iT IS written that we "-----ARE.........crucyfied .........WITH .....Christ"
When?
God condemned sin in the flesh and has ALREADY judged SIN on calvary IN Christ.
where the BODY OF FLESH was PUT TO DEATH FOR SIN.
Now if we WERE(passed tense) crucyfied WITH CHRIST.
Then when we look BACK to CALVARY by FAITH we see OUR SIN JUDGED in HIS FLESH.
AND BY THE power of GOD THROUGH THE "BLOOD OF HIS CROSS " we ARE reconciled to God"
So with the HEART man belieVETH AND WITH HIS MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO salavtion.
So what is BELIEVED UNSEEN is confessed OPENLY and MANIFESTED to the WORLD.
(THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED with tjhe women with the issue of blood and WHY the Lord brought her out into the open and confess what had happened)
Now we are saved;BORNagain.
yet that is NOT the END but only the BEGINNING of our LIFE.
"wE ARE TO PRESENT OUR BODIES A LIVING SACRAFICE UNTO GOD WHICH IS OUR REASONABLE SERVICE"
So when we get baptised we are LAYING THE FOUNDATION of our LIFE OF SERVICE to GOD.
And a SURE one at that.
WHY?
because we are SUBMITTING OUR BODIES even as we have submitted our hearts to His DEATH.
cONFORMING oursleves PERFECTLY to the WILL of God even as HE DID.
So that as are 'baptised into His death"
We are as we come out conformed ALSO to His RESURECTION.Which is why so often most people are BAPTISED in the SPIRIT for the FIRST time even as HE WAS.
SEE then how much the people of God are ROBBED by not gettign bap[tised and laying such a good foundation for SERTVICE?
For you have OPENLY confessed to heaven and earth and to devils alike YOUR DEATH to SIN and alive to GODand your COMMITMENT to the WORK and KINGDOM of God also.
That from that moment on RAISED from the dead AS IT WERE it "is no longer I that liveth but CHRIST that liveth in me"

In a nutshell:

Baptism in water is the CONFORMITY of the BODY to that which God has Already WROUGHT IN THE HEART. AND YOUR commitment to Him and the KINGDOM.
Click to expand...

AMEN:thumb:

God Bless
 
J

JustAChristian

New member
Baptism and Salvation.

Baptism and Salvation.

Originally posted by geralduk
Water baptism though not nescersary to or FOR salvation.
yet IS nescersary so that we may walk PERFECTLY in conformity with His Son.
For "as the Father sent me so send I you"
BEFORE any WORK done by the Lord.The FAther SENT hIM TO BE baptised By WATER and by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Some major so MUCH on the WATER but you never hear from them about the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT(I wonder why that is?)
But what IS this baptism by WATER?
iT IS THE BAPTISM "INTO His DEATH".
Now to those who say it is needed for salvation:
How is it that we are baptised into His death when He DIED 2000 YEARS AGO?
Is it not then by FAITH that we are so baptised?
and if by faith then we are ALREADY saved BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED and are NOW acting by faith in that which is INVISIBLE which our BAPTISM of "FAITH is the substance of things unseen(CRUCYFICTION) and the (VISIBLE) EVIDENCE of thinsg hoped for"
Therefore if we have BELIEVED GOD then we are counted ALREADY rightous!and therefore SAVED!
Yet what then is BAPTISM FOR?
iT IS written
Click to expand...

The Bible tells us the purpose for baptism. It has always been associated with forgivness of sins (Acts 2:38), washing away of sins (Acts 22:16), entrance into Christ (Galatians 3:26-27), burial with Christ (Romans 6:3-5), and salvation (Mark 16:16). It is a going down into and coming out of the water, the site for the spiritual cleansing associated with baptism. It is the point of union and fellowship with God in the church (Acts 2:39-47). To say that baptism is not associated with salvation is to say that union and fellowship with God is not comes though a failure to do the will of God. That is contrary to sound doctrine and common sense. Man says baptism is not essential to salvation, but God says it is. I think I will stick with the One who made Heaven and Earth, and with His Son the One whose blood cleansed me in baptism.

JustAChristian
 
G

geralduk

New member
Ive ALREADY adequately shown that you CANNOT be saved by baptism
but it is the EXPRESSION of that FAITH in God as to what HE has done ALREADY and in which we BELIEVE and so ALREADY counted rightous.
The WORK of baptism is therefore NOT unto 'salavtion' BUT ACCORDING TO FAITH and unto andf the fullfilling OF RIGHTOUSNESS and CONFORMITY to the will of God.

If you are baptised believeing that IT will save you.then you are still in your sins.
For you are having an OUTWARD FORM of religion WHICH denies THE inward WORK of God in the heart that comes by FAITH not in ANY WORK that I DO but in THAT WORK ON CALVARY that God has ALREADY done and which I accept and RECIEVE by FAITH.#

SIN is an INWARD condition of the heart.
How then can an OUTWARD washing CLEANSE IT!?
ONE scripture that LOOKS like it suports your idea.
Completely CONTRADICTS the VERY CLEAR scripture that says "without the shedding of BLOOD there is NO remission of sins"
It is ONLY the BLOOD that can DEAL with SIN.
and ALL the scripturES SAY IT.

Let me ask this?

What delivered them from the POWER AND DOMNINION OF EGYPT?
tHE MIRACLES?
NO.
THEIR efforts?
NO
The BLOOD of a SCARFICED LAMB put on the lintels and doors of the 'house'
The 'baptism' did not come till AFTER they were SAVED.
Now they were ALREADY saved BUT THROUGH BAPTISM they were SEPERATED from the 'world' and pahroah'

ONE verse is NEVER enough to establish a DOCTRIN.

and the verses you quote are NOT clear enough for what you want it to say.
But in ALL ther types and shadows of the Old testament and in all the teachings of PAUL.
SHOW with no reasonable dispute that we are saved by NO work of the FLESH.
AND A BAPTISM IS A WORK done in the flesh.
so it CANNNOT deal with a SPIRTUAL MALADY!
NOR MAKE DEAD MEN LIVE!
 
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J

JustAChristian

New member
Baptism Saves...

Baptism Saves...

Originally posted by geralduk
Ive ALREADY adequately shown that you CANNOT be saved by baptism
but it is the EXPRESSION of that FAITH in God as to what HE has done ALREADY and in which we BELIEVE and so ALREADY counted rightous.
The WORK of baptism is therefore NOT unto 'salavtion' BUT ACCORDING TO FAITH and unto andf the fullfilling OF RIGHTOUSNESS and CONFORMITY to the will of God.

If you are baptised believeing that IT will save you.then you are still in your sins.
For you are having an OUTWARD FORM of religion WHICH denies THE inward WORK of God in the heart that comes by FAITH not in ANY WORK that I DO but in THAT WORK ON CALVARY that God has ALREADY done and which I accept and RECIEVE by FAITH.#

SIN is an INWARD condition of the heart.
How then can an OUTWARD washing CLEANSE IT!?
ONE scripture that LOOKS like it suports your idea.
Completely CONTRADICTS the VERY CLEAR scripture that says "without the shedding of BLOOD there is NO remission of sins"
It is ONLY the BLOOD that can DEAL with SIN.
and ALL the scripturES SAY IT.

Let me ask this?

What delivered them from the POWER AND DOMNINION OF EGYPT?
tHE MIRACLES?
NO.
THEIR efforts?
NO
The BLOOD of a SCARFICED LAMB put on the lintels and doors of the 'house'
The 'baptism' did not come till AFTER they were SAVED.
Now they were ALREADY saved BUT THROUGH BAPTISM they were SEPERATED from the 'world' and pahroah'

ONE verse is NEVER enough to establish a DOCTRIN.

and the verses you quote are NOT clear enough for what you want it to say.
But in ALL ther types and shadows of the Old testament and in all the teachings of PAUL.
SHOW with no reasonable dispute that we are saved by NO work of the FLESH.
AND A BAPTISM IS A WORK done in the flesh.
so it CANNNOT deal with a SPIRTUAL MALADY!
NOR MAKE DEAD MEN LIVE!
Click to expand...

In your own mind and by your own reasoning you have determined that baptism has nothing to do with salvation. However, the New Testament addresses extensively that baptism is association with salvation (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Gal. 3:27; 1 Peter 3:21). You are "butting heads" with inspired scripture from God. It is a shame that you feel you know more than God.

JustAChristian :angel:
 
Kevin

Kevin

New member
The forgiveness of our sins

The forgiveness of our sins

I think that everybody who calls themselves a Christian would agree that our sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ.

Is there condition to having your sins forgiven by His blood? Absolutely, if there were no condition then everybody will make it to heaven, which, unfortunately will not happen. So, knowing that sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God, what condition does our Lord Jesus Christ say that must happen for us to make it to heaven? I'll let Him do the talking:

John: 3:3
3) Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

From this we can clearly see that one has to be born again to make it to heaven. Now, in order for one to be born "again", a death must occur. Why? Because:

  • Logic demands it. Can one be born again into the Spirit while still living in his previous life of sin? Impossible. A death must occur so that a new life can begin.
  • We must die with Christ in order to live with Christ (2 Tim. 2:11)

So this bring us to the question of how one dies with Christ. The Bible speaks clearly on this matter:

Romans 6:3-4
3) Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore we were buried with Him through BAPTISM into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There is but ONE way to die with Christ, and I even took the liberty of underlining it: BAPTISM. That's how we die with Christ. I challenge anybody to show me, in the Bible, any other means by which we die with Christ.

Baptism is how we die with Christ, and it is he who has died with Christ who has been FREED from sin! (Romans 6:7). If you havn't died with Christ, you have NOT been freed from your sins! On the contraray, if you've died with Christ, yes- through baptism, then:

Romans 6:11
11) Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but ALIVE to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You HAVE to DIE to sin in order to be ALIVE to God. Baptism is how we die to sin, and through that death we are made ALIVE to God through Christ Jesus - being reborn! It is those who are reborn, dead to sin and alive to God through Christ, are the ones who will have their sins forgiven by the blood of Christ. The waters of baptism do NOT forgive our sins, but it is FOR the remission of our sins (Acts 2:38). The blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin, but ONLY if we do what we are commanded to do FOR the remission of those sins - BAPTISM! (Acts 2:38, Romans 6:7).

To reiterate what 2 Tim 2:11 says, if we want to live with Christ, we must also die with Christ, and the Bible clearly speaks on the matter of how one dies with Christ - Baptism.
 
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A

Apollos

New member
Ahh, the sweet truth...

Ahh, the sweet truth...

Kevin -

Your last post brought a tear to my eye. <sniff-sniff>

Keep up the good work!!!!

:thumb:

JAC & Francisco -

It is nice to know that I can share truth in other threads while the two of you (& Kevin) defend the truth about water baptism. I appreciate you guys!!!

(Francisco - I know, I owe you some correspondence - sorry about that!!)

Water baptism is the means selected by God through which man appropriates the salvation offered to him by God's grace!
 
c.moore

c.moore

New member
Originally posted by c.moore
Hello JustAchristian

what do you think in the mouth of two or three witnesses mean JustAchristian?????

Can we just take one scripture and make a complete doctrine out of it like the mormon did with the water baptism for the dead for instance????

I wouild like to ask you A question what church do you belong to or have felowship with????

do you have a pastor in your church and do you think all that he preach if you obey and go to a church are lies????

peace
Click to expand...

still waiting for an answer.

peace
 
L

la rubia

BANNED
Banned
JAC, Francisco, Kevin, and all the rest of you have done an excellent job on this thread. I've never posted here, but I keep up on it always. You've done a great job.
 
F

Francisco

New member
Welcome to the never ending thread, la rubia! Install your Energizer batteries and jump into the fray... ;)

And thank you for the nice compliment.

God Bless,

Francisco
 
Freak

Freak

New member
Apollos and friends-

God's Word on this issue is utterly clear:

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Paul's use of the language is straightforward-
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

It is his "faith" that is credited with righteousness not works.
 
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