hello Kevin
i thought i might try and see if anybody has learn anything sence I left this thread from evangelist freak.
but it looks like we all have our own belief , some believe we have 6,7 and 9 dollar bills but the devil is a liar and it will take God to open the blind teachings and take a look at the will of God.
even Paul thought he was doing God a favor by killing christian and was living in the will of God.
i did learn some things you said, that I was not taught and i can accept, and I found out that we both are sort of right.
look here .
But John shows you Ephesians 2:8,9. “It is not of works”, and says “Baptism would be a work. Baptism should come after you’re saved, but it doesn’t save you!”
Well, what should you believe? Who is right? Both are right, and both are wrong. Let’s look at the Scriptures and see why. The gospel starts with the ministry of John the Baptist. His message was, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2)! He preached “the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:3). What? He preached that a person had to be baptized to be saved? Yes! Let’s remember the proper procedures for good Bible study:
1. Find out who is speaking.
2. Find out to whom they are speaking.
3. Find out what dispensation it is being said under.
4. Observe the passage in its context.
To whom was John the Baptist sent? It says in John 1:31 that John was sent to Israel: “I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.” Well, that’s pretty clear. John came to Israel to show that Jesus was the Messiah or Christ. It was at a time when God was only dealing with the Jews. The method of salvation was repent and be baptized for your sins. This was the message of the kingdom gospel. Luke 16:16 shows when the kingdom gospel started: “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.”
Did Christ and the apostles preach the same gospel that John preached? Yes, for it says that they did in Matthew 10:5-10 and Mark 1:14,15. Now, notice the context. Baptism was linked with the message of the kingdom promised to David. This was the good news of the circumcision (Gal 2:7-9).
When John began his ministry there was only one baptism, water. Was it necessary for salvation? Yes. We even find Jesus saying to Nicodemus in John 3:5 that if a man wants to enter into the kingdom of God, he must be born of water and of the Spirit. This requirement of water baptism fits the context of John’s message. John began baptizing, and the apostles continued after the resurrection and the day of Pentecost. Christ commanded the Eleven in Mark 16:15-16, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” Peter insisted on the same requirement ten days later on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Here we see that water baptism was necessary before Holy Spirit baptism would take place. So, now for the first time, we have two baptisms. Water baptism is necessary for salvation. Then, Holy Spirit baptism takes place. From the context of verses 22 and 39 we see that this happened while God was still dealing with Israel. Peter was only speaking to Israel in 22, and he was referring to the promise made to Israel in 39.
Next, something very important happens. The Apostle Paul is saved. We will not go into the differences in Paul’s salvation, although it appears that Paul was saved under the same message Peter preached in Acts 2. Acts 22:16 says, “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Since God had started a new dispensation with Paul (Gal 1:11-2:9; Eph 3:1-9), all kinds of different things began to happen.
1. Peter got a vision in Acts 10 which showed that Israel had been set aside. They were no longer God’s special people. This was shown by the vision given to Peter when the law of clean and unclean animals was set aside (Lev 20:24-26).
2. Peter was sent to a Gentile and told by the Holy Spirit to doubt nothing (Acts 10:20).
3. The most significant event happened when Peter went to the Gentiles. When they believed, the Holy Spirit interrupted Peter’s message before he could tell them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. In fact, the Holy Spirit fell on all the Gentiles while Peter was still preaching. The Jews who accompanied Peter were amazed. This, indeed, was a dispensational sign from God that something had changed.
What had changed? God had started a new program when He saved Paul. However, since God would only reveal the new message to the Apostle Paul, Peter was still preaching the same message he had always preached (Acts 10:34-43). Let’s review the situation at this point of our investigation.
1. At first there was only one baptism, John’s. It was necessary for salvation.
2. Then things started changing when Paul was saved.
3. The Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles before they were water baptized. Remember, water baptism was a sign to Jews to show Christ to them.
Sometime during his second missionary journey the Apostle Paul told the body of Christ about the baptisms which they knew of, in this manner: “I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius . . . . For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Co 1:14,17 Read in context.). From this we see that Paul was not under the great commission which was given to the circumcision apostles.
In the same epistle, he wrote, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body; whether Jews or Greeks” (1 Co 12:13). So, water baptism had changed from being the only baptism, and necessary for salvation, to a ritual which had faded away.
Next, another very important incident happened. God finished showing Israel that they had been set aside. He had done this in a progressive manner which reached its conclusion in Acts 28:28. It started in Acts 13:46, continued in Acts 18:6, and was concluded in Acts 28:28.
After Israel had been shown that they had been set aside, Paul was inspired by God to write Ephesians. In Ephesians 4:3-6, Paul wrote about the unity of the Spirit. He was writing about God’s dealings with Christians today. He wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, two baptisms.” What? It doesn’t say two baptisms? It says there “is one baptism”? Yes, that’s right. Which one is it then? It must be Spirit baptism since the Holy Spirit is still sealing members into the body of Christ.
Well then, we can see that the gospel message started out with one baptism, water. This was necessary for salvation. It progressed to two: water first, then, Holy Spirit baptism. The water baptism was still necessary for salvation. Finally, in this dispensation, it returned to one, Holy Spirit, which is now necessary for salvation.
Now I see why this thread lasted so long because we both are wrong and right so welcome to the club let`s find the truth in context of the bible with one or two witnesses.
i am sorry about your child, and i pray God will blessyou with more childrens praise God.
peace
