The Gospel of Reconciliation Refutes the Calvinist Doctrine of Predestination

[john w]

Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.

Agreed, re. Christians. That is not my argument, or yours. You assert "no law"=it does not exist, for anyone, i.e., the lost-thus, it does not serve to bring the lost to Christ, and show the lost, what sin is.

That is satanic-no scripture asserts that.

 

[Robert Pate]

Agreed, re. Christians. That is not my argument, or yours. You assert "no law"=it does not exist, for anyone, i.e., the lost-thus, it does not serve to bring the lost to Christ, and show the lost, what sin is.

That is satanic-no scripture asserts that.

I never said that the lost are not under the law.

The unbeliever is still under the law and will be judged by the law, 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

 

[john w]

I never said that the lost are not under the law.

The unbeliever is still under the law and will be judged by the law, 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

Observe, the deception.


You asserted that the law was abolished, Pate.

Your words, on this thread-posts 23/24/43/58:

In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.....We are not under the law, nor are we subject to it. It has been fulfilled and abolished Ephesians 2:15....The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us we would still be subject to it. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.Sorry guys but you are wrong.....The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18 and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

So, you either lied, or are sloppy.

Which is it?

 

[musterion]

Why does the Law even need fulfilled for the unbeliever if he can be forgiven all trespasses (Col 2:13)?

The logic of Pate's broken record is that the believer needs saved in in at least two ways...first by proxy of Christ's purportedly "keeping the Law" for him, second by his sins being forgiven because of the Cross.

This raises an important question:

Does Pate believe someone can be saved who trusts in the DBR for his sins and justification, but does not believe Christ lived His perfect life/fulfilled the Law on our behalf?

 

[Robert Pate]

Why does the Law even need fulfilled for the unbeliever if he can be forgiven all trespasses (Col 2:13)?

The logic of Pate's broken record is that the believer needs saved in in at least two ways...first by proxy of Christ's purportedly "keeping the Law" for him, second by his sins being forgiven because of the Cross.

This raises an important question:

Does Pate believe someone can be saved who trusts in the DBR for his sins and justification, but does not believe Christ lived His perfect life/fulfilled the Law on our behalf?

No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by Jesus Christ.

We are justified by the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He does this by fulfilling every jot and tittle of the law in our name and on our behalf, Matthew 5:18. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

You as a sinner cannot fulfill the law. Someone must fulfill the law for you.

That was not enough. Something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the world. Jesus in our name and in our place atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand complete before God's court, Colossians 2:10.

 

[beloved57]

No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by Jesus Christ.

We are justified by the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He does this by fulfilling every jot and tittle of the law in our name and on our behalf, Matthew 5:18. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

You as a sinner cannot fulfill the law. Someone must fulfill the law for you.

That was not enough. Something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the world. Jesus in our name and in our place atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand complete before God's court, Colossians 2:10.

Dont you teach that people Christ died for are still lost ?

 

[Robert Pate]

Observe, the deception.


You asserted that the law was abolished, Pate.

Your words, on this thread-posts 23/24/43/58:


So, you either lied, or are sloppy.

Which is it?

No deception or lies.

The Christian is totally free from the law, because Jesus fulfilled it and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

All unbelievers are under the law and will be judged by the law, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

 

[beloved57]

pate

The unbeliever is still under the law and will be judged by the law, 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

Not the unbeliever Christ died for. They became dead to the Law by the Body of Christ Rom 7:4

[FONT=&quot]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/FONT]

 

[Robert Pate]

Dont you teach that people Christ died for are still lost ?

You are lost because you have rejected God's great free gift of salvation.

 

[john w]

You as a sinner cannot fulfill the law. Someone must fulfill the law for you.

You satanically lied again, Pate. No scripture asserts that "Someone must fulfill the law for you." And even if the Lord Jesus Christ did, "for the sake of your argument," you'd still be headed to hell, as fulfilling the law, is "just doing what is required." For eg., obeying the speed limit just means you do not go to jail.

Memorize, Pate:

The righteous of God.


That is what is required. The law does not do that.


Read it, memorize it:

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

You are clueless as to the meaning of "propitiation," aren't you, Pate, as this "Someone must fulfill the law for you" is made up jazz, from the pits of hell? The bible never taught you that.


The obedience, of the Saviour, which was perfect, was, per Hebrews 9:14 KJV, in order that He might "through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God", as a sin offering, the satisfactory sacrifice-propitiation


Pate:
"Who was delivered for our offenses, and who obeyed the law for our justification."

 

[beloved57]

You are lost because you have rejected God's great free gift of salvation.

So dont you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost ? Yes or No ?

 

[john w]

You are lost because you have rejected God's great free gift of salvation.

Do members of the boc a favor-do not speak for us. Your "vicarious law keeping" is Calvinist teaching, so you and bedeviled666 should be as Herod and Pilate(Luke 23:12 KJV)

 

[john w]

Pate and Calvinism, on this "vicarious law keeping"-different cages, same dirty birds...

"The cross alone, however, does not justify us ....We are justified not only by the death of Christ, but also by the life of Christ. Christ's mission of redemption was not limited to the cross. To save us He had to live a life of perfect righteousness. His perfect, active obedience was necessary for His and our salvation . . . We are constituted as righteous by the obedience of Christ which is imputed to us by faith [R. C. Sproul, Faith Alone, (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1995), p. 104]."


Here are the words of John Calvin, the father of Calvinism :

"....when it is asked how Christ, by abolishing sin, removed the enmity between God and us, and purchased a righteousness which made him favourable and kind to us, it may be answered generally, that he accomplished this by the whole course of his obedience. This is proved by the testimony of Paul, “As by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Rom. 5:19). And indeed he elsewhere extends the ground of pardon which exempts from the curse of the law to the whole life of Christ, “When the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his son, made of a woman, made unto the law, to redeem them that were under the law” (Gal. 4:4-5). Thus even at his baptism he declared that a part of righteousness was fulfilled by his yielding obedience to the command of the Father. In short, from the moment when he assumed the form of a servant, he began, in order to redeem us, to pay the price of deliverance . . . [John Calvin, Calvin's Institutes, vol.2, (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1962), p. 437]."

 

[beloved57]

You are lost because you have rejected God's great free gift of salvation.

Hey, I am a sinner, that is what sinners do, sin against God. Too bad your savior can't save sinners!

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[musterion]

No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by Jesus Christ.

True.

We are justified by the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus.

False. Paul nowhere says the life of Christ AND His DBR justify the believer.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

Unsubstantiated claim. You're teaching (I guess) Baptist tradition as Scripture. Beware, Robert.

He does this by fulfilling every jot and tittle of the law in our name and on our behalf, Matthew 5:18.

Not written to or about us.

It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

Spam. You've been shown that's not what it says.

You as a sinner cannot fulfill the law. Someone must fulfill the law for you.

Or...you could be declared dead to the Law by faith in the One who died for your sins.

That was not enough. Something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the world. Jesus in our name and in our place atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

By the cross, which you are subtly minimizing.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand complete before God's court, Colossians 2:10.

The dying, yes. Not the doing as you mean it.

 

[musterion]

Robert,

Can a person be saved who does not believe Christ's life saves him, but only the DBR?

 

[musterion]

Robert is subtly violating 2 Cor 5:16.

 

[musterion]

Pate and Calvinism, on this "vicarious law keeping"-different cages, same dirty birds...

"The cross alone, however, does not justify us ....We are justified not only by the death of Christ, but also by the life of Christ. Christ's mission of redemption was not limited to the cross. To save us He had to live a life of perfect righteousness. His perfect, active obedience was necessary for His and our salvation . . . We are constituted as righteous by the obedience of Christ which is imputed to us by faith [R. C. Sproul, Faith Alone, (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1995), p. 104]."


Here are the words of John Calvin, the father of Calvinism :

"....when it is asked how Christ, by abolishing sin, removed the enmity between God and us, and purchased a righteousness which made him favourable and kind to us, it may be answered generally, that he accomplished this by the whole course of his obedience. This is proved by the testimony of Paul, “As by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Rom. 5:19). And indeed he elsewhere extends the ground of pardon which exempts from the curse of the law to the whole life of Christ, “When the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his son, made of a woman, made unto the law, to redeem them that were under the law” (Gal. 4:4-5). Thus even at his baptism he declared that a part of righteousness was fulfilled by his yielding obedience to the command of the Father. In short, from the moment when he assumed the form of a servant, he began, in order to redeem us, to pay the price of deliverance . . . [John Calvin, Calvin's Institutes, vol.2, (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1962), p. 437]."

Robert will ignore all of that.

 

[beloved57]

You satanically lied again, Pate. No scripture asserts that "Someone must fulfill the law for you." And even if the Lord Jesus Christ did, "for the sake of your argument," you'd still be headed to hell, as fulfilling the law, is "just doing what is required." For eg., obeying the speed limit just means you do not go to jail.

Memorize, Pate:

The righteous of God.


That is what is required. The law does not do that.


Read it, memorize it:

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

You are clueless as to the meaning of "propitiation," aren't you, Pate, as this "Someone must fulfill the law for you" is made up jazz, from the pits of hell? The bible never taught you that.


The obedience, of the Saviour, which was perfect, was, per Hebrews 9:14 KJV, in order that He might "through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God", as a sin offering, the satisfactory sacrifice-propitiation


Pate:
"Who was delivered for our offenses, and who obeyed the law for our justification."

What about Rom 2:13

13*(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

What is the promise made to the doers of the Law ?

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[Robert Pate]

True.



False. Paul nowhere says the life of Christ AND His DBR justify the believer.



Unsubstantiated claim. You're teaching (I guess) Baptist tradition as Scripture. Beware, Robert.



Not written to or about us.



Spam. You've been shown that's not what it says.



Or...you could be declared dead to the Law by faith in the One who died for your sins.



By the cross, which you are subtly minimizing.



The dying, yes. Not the doing as you mean it.

You apparently don't have a clue as to what the Gospel is.

All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification. No one would be saved if Jesus had not fulfilled and abolished the law for us, Ephesians 2:15. He fulfilled the law for us because we can't. Can you fulfill the law? No, you can't fulfill the law because you are a sinner. Jesus fulfilled the law and took us out from under it because it is contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.