The Gospel of Reconciliation Refutes the Calvinist Doctrine of Predestination
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Yes. The Lamb had to be without blemish. We are not the Lamb of God.
Had Jesus sinned he would have been disqualified as the Passover.
The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us we would still be subject to it. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.
Sorry guys but you are wrong.
Sorry guys but you are wrong.
musterion
Well-known member
No, Robert. That is not the reason the believer is not subject to Law. The reason Paul gave is because of the believer's being reckoned as having died with Christ and being raised newly alive to God in Christ.
Fact: no law exists that has any claim over those who are declared dead. THAT is why Law has nothing more to do with those in Christ.
Unforgiven, unjustified, unholy = dead to God, dead in sin, condemned under Law.
Forgiven, justified, sanctified = died with Christ, raised with Christ, alive to God, possessing the righteousness of Christ, dead to sin, dead to Law, dead to condemnation.
What separates one condition from the other? The Cross and the Tomb. We're either on one side of them or the other.
You're very gravely wrong on this Robert and I hope you'll repent.
Nope, you are the one that is wrong.
Jesus fulfilled the law for us, so that we are no longer under it.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes" Romans 10:14.
The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
Jesus says that every Jot and tittle of the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18.
Who do you think that he fulfilled it for and where is your scripture?
musterion
Well-known member
False gospel, Robert. It is basically what Mormons teach
Ignorantly twisted from context. Read Rom 10:5, the very next verse, for understanding...
Lev 18:5...
Paul quoted Moses' command for literal covenant obedience for Israel, Robert. Nothing there about Christ living the Law for anyone, particularly Grace age Gentiles.
BY THE CROSS, Eph 2:16, meaning His DEATH, not by His life on earth.
Not in Matt 5, He didn't. He couldn't; hadn't died yet.
Peter warned of your kind. You are unstable and do not understand Paul, so you wrest what he was given to teach.
Repent, Robert.
You didn't answer my question. If Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18, then for who and why did he fulfill the law.
If you don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for you, then you are still under it. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14
After Jesus fulfilled it for us, he destroyed it, Ephesians 2:15.
All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for us. He fulfills the law for us, he abolishes the law for us. He atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This is why Paul could say, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.
There is a void in your doctrine that you are trying to fulfill with you own life.
musterion
Well-known member
You are preaching bloodless salvation through proxy lawkeeping.
And it is you who is being evasive, Robert. I asked you DAYS ago why Christ even needed to die, if it was God's purpose that He keep the Law for us?
If the life of the sinless One atoned for all our lawbreaking (that's the logic of your position), then there was no point to the Cross because the demands of broken Law were satisfied and the work of our redemption was done before He died, and indeed He needn't die at all.
But He did die.
Why?
There are two requirements that must be met before fallen man can be saved.
1. A life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law.
2. A perfect atonement for his sins and the sins of the world.
Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these requirements.
This is why Paul could say... "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. If the law has been fulfilled and sin has been atoned for, then we can stand before God as justified, Romans 3:26.
The handwriting of ordinances is not the law, Pate. Get your facts straight-sloppy. The charge against us, written order of a death sentence, "the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, Pate, as you assert, biblically illiterate one. You changed the scripture. "the handwriting of ordinances" is a reference to the sin debt,"note of debt," the "notice of indebtedness," "the charge," the notice of the, so to speak, "certified copy of an execution order," being nailed to the cross-not the law, itself.
Again, as you learn through repetition...Yes, Christians are not under any law, a a "rule of life," but that is not equivalent to asserting that the law was abolished, as Pate made up-it still serves its purpose, as it always has. Through the law, is the knowledge of sin, and still functions, to bring the lost to Christ-today, as it did in Egypt, as it always has/does today:
Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it-"that"
I know that's quite deep, Pate. You need to back up, and get out of this ditch, that you are in. When you are in a hole, quit digging.
Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it-"that"
I know that's quite deep, Pate. You need to back up, and get out of this ditch, that you are in. When you are in a hole, quit digging.
How is it possible, to be under a law, that does not exist, was abolished, lazy Pate?
Pate: Well, uh, urr, you see...
Again-Pate argued, as part of his premise("supporting walls"), that "the handwriting of ordinances" is equivalent to the law. It's not , and he has been shown this, numerous times, on numerous threads, to what Paul was referring-the sin debt, the "certificate of debt," the "charge against the accused,".....That, Pate, was nailed to the cross, as the custom, at that time, when one was crucified, was to post/nail the charges, against the accused, on said cross. Back then, a bond debt/certificate of debt, was cancelled, by being nailed to a post.
This "dogma"/"ordinances, was a document written in one's own hand as legal proof of indebtedness, i.e., a bond of indebtedness; a note of debt.
“handwriting”-“a note of hand, or writing, in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him/her, or lent to him by another, to be returned at an appointed time” (from Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
And then later it came to refer to any acknowledgment of debt. Get it? Sin debt. That is the meaning of the word “handwriting”-an acknowledgement of debt.
Per your argument:The Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by Parkhurst gives the meaning of cheirographon: “Anything written with the hand, a bond, note of hand, it signifies a sort of note under a man’s hand, whereby he obliges himself to the payment of any debt.” In other words, a note of debt or a note of guilt. The same Lexicon shows that tois can be translated “from.”
Per your argument:
Dogmasin simply refers to law (see Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance). In this case it refers to the laws of men The whole expression tells us the Colossians had incurred a note of sinful guilt as a result of following pagan ordinances.
The record that contained the charges, was nailed to the cross-canceled. Not the law. The charges were against us....The certified copy of an execution order, which was against, was nailed to the cross.
'"the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, so stop scamming people on TOL, driving them away from Christ. And Paul's point-that debt was against us, or "notice of execution," not the law, as it is good, and holy, and just, and good.......
This "dogma"/"ordinances, was a document written in one's own hand as legal proof of indebtedness, i.e., a bond of indebtedness; a note of debt.
“handwriting”-“a note of hand, or writing, in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him/her, or lent to him by another, to be returned at an appointed time” (from Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
And then later it came to refer to any acknowledgment of debt. Get it? Sin debt. That is the meaning of the word “handwriting”-an acknowledgement of debt.
Per your argument:The Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by Parkhurst gives the meaning of cheirographon: “Anything written with the hand, a bond, note of hand, it signifies a sort of note under a man’s hand, whereby he obliges himself to the payment of any debt.” In other words, a note of debt or a note of guilt. The same Lexicon shows that tois can be translated “from.”
Per your argument:
Dogmasin simply refers to law (see Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance). In this case it refers to the laws of men The whole expression tells us the Colossians had incurred a note of sinful guilt as a result of following pagan ordinances.
The record that contained the charges, was nailed to the cross-canceled. Not the law. The charges were against us....The certified copy of an execution order, which was against, was nailed to the cross.
'"the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, so stop scamming people on TOL, driving them away from Christ. And Paul's point-that debt was against us, or "notice of execution," not the law, as it is good, and holy, and just, and good.......
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Of course it is the law. What do you think that the law is? Its ordinances that tell you to do something, which is law. Anything that tells you to do something or not to do something is law.
You have yet to answer my question. If Jesus fulfilled the law, who did he fulfill the law for?
No, it is not the law, slop master. You made that up. You lied.
And we have answered your question. You satanically assert that the law is abolished.
No, it has not been abolished, and "fulfilled," abolished," are not synonymous terms-you keep spamming that, and misinterpreting Ephesians 2:15 KJV.
Pate:
- Murder, theft,lying....................................... .......................................are all OK, as there is no law, as it was allegedly abolished, to condemn them,
-everyone is saved, as when there is no law, there is no trangression, and sin is not imputed, where there is no law.
-the lost cannot come to know what sin is, and the law is not a schoolmaster, to bring them to Christ, as it was abolished....
And the scripture does say, slick one, that "THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances" was abolished in the flesh, but that is not saying the law of Moses, God's holy law, the laws against theft, murder, rape, coveting..........................have been abolished Pate, as you satanically made up, misinterpret.
Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it-"that"
Tell us, Pate-did the law serve as a schoolmaster, to bring you to Christ, as it did Paul? Did it reveal what sin is, as it did Paul?
ANSWER.
Pate- out with Romans 3:20 KJV, Galatians 3:24-25 KJV.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exist-no transgression-everyone is saved.
Romans 4:15 KJV
because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, no law, no law can be broken/transgressed-everyone is saved.
Romans 5:13 KJV
(for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, if there is no law, it cannot be imputed to anyone-everyone is saved.
Sloppy satanism, you post, Pate.
Why are you so hostile? Maybe you need to go take a pill and lay down for a while.
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18 and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.
He did that for us, in our name and on our behalf.
To be under the law is to be under condemnation. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.
Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians and why I say to you, "TELL ME THAT YOU DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW. DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.
The law will condemn you to hell.
Jesus is the only one that could fulfill it and abolish it. He fulfilled it and abolished it for us.
Copy'npaste spam.
Fulfilling the law, is not abolishing it, deceiver. The bible "clearly" teaches that your vicarious law keeping is from hell. He fulfilled the law, to be the satisfactory sacrifice, Pate=propitiation, so stuff your "assert....pound the table" jazz.
I never asserted that we are justified by the law, or we are to have the law, as our rule, in our walk, Pate, so knock off the mischaracterization.
Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians and why I say to you, "TELL ME THAT YOU DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW. DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.[/QUOTE]
And? Quite irrelevant to your "argument," that the law has been abolished, deceiver.
If you assert that it justifies you, punk, yes. But that is not your "argument."
You assert that it has been abolished, and thus, throw out Romans 3:20 KJV, Galatians 3:24-25 KJV.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exist-no transgression-everyone is saved.
Romans 4:15 KJV
because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, no law, no law can be broken/transgressed-everyone is saved.
Romans 5:13 KJV
(for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, if there is no law, it cannot be imputed to anyone-everyone is saved.
Sloppy satanism, you post, Pate.
Answer, Pate:
Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it-"that"
Tell us, Pate-did the law serve as a schoolmaster, to bring you to Christ, as it did Paul? Did it reveal what sin is, to you, as it did Paul?
Does it today? Oh, yes...Pate: The law has been abolished!!!!!!!
Satanic dung.
ANSWER.
Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it-"that"
Tell us, Pate-did the law serve as a schoolmaster, to bring you to Christ, as it did Paul? Did it reveal what sin is, to you, as it did Paul?
Does it today? Oh, yes...Pate: The law has been abolished!!!!!!!
Satanic dung.
ANSWER.