The Gospel of Reconciliation Refutes the Calvinist Doctrine of Predestination
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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To be under the law is to be under judgment and condemnation.
Jesus as our representative fulfilled the law for us, Matthew 5:18. After he fulfilled it he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.
If you don't believe that then you will subconsciously try to fulfill it yourself, which will lead you into legalism. This is where you and John W. are at.
musterion
Well-known member
You keep saying that but the contexts, as you've been shown, indicate that's not at all what was being spoken of.
Legalism...you mean like the need to submit to a water ritual?
Jesus taught the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man. God never intended for his people to live by laws and rules. This is why Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Christians are called to live by Spirit and by faith.
Living by laws, rules and commandments will cause you to sin, Romans 7:8-11.
No, like the need to try and be good enough.
musterion
Well-known member
You really get that from what I post?
Jesus claims that he fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18.
If the law has been fulfilled and all of the righteous demands of God's law has been met, Then why do you believe that anyone that is a Christian has to acknowledge it?
musterion
Well-known member
Asking you again.You get legalism from me?
If you don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for you and abolished it, then you will try to fulfill it yourself and that can lead to legalism. If the shoe fits, then wear it.
musterion
Well-known member
That's a false dilemma. You're either lying or a blind fool, Robert, because it's already been shown you VERBATIM that the believer is declared by God to be DEAD to the Law, without his being able to keep it AND without Christ's needing to keep it for him.
You're the legalist here, saying that lawkeeping does in fact count in salvation by grace, which Paul expressly said EXCLUDES works of the law.
Claiming that Christ's allegedly keeping the Law for you is credited as if YOU kept it still amounts to salvation by lawkeeping, Robert.
But Paul said Law is EXCLUDED.
No way around that.
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God does not declare the believer to be dead. After the believer believes God declares the believer to be justified.
We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. If one jot or tittle of the law was not fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb and we would all still be in our sins.
Jesus has victoriously fulfilled the law for us and has atoned for our sins. So that we can stand before God in the judgment as justified.
musterion
Well-known member
Wrong. All that he was is reckoned to have died. Hence, no law nor condemnation for a dead man.
I answered it, you vile deceiver. The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law for us to be the satisfactory sacrifice, snake, not this satanic vicarious law keeping, as you assert.
Quite irrelevant, and drunken response. How can anyone be under the law, if it no longer exists, Pate?
Murder, covetousness, are OK, according to Pate, as there is no law against it.
=satanic
Tell us, Pate-did the law serve as a schoolmaster, to bring you to Christ, as it did Paul? Did it reveal what sin is, to you, as it did Paul?
How could it? You assert that this "Jesus" you made up, abolished the law.
Answer, Pate.
More satanic evasion.
You lied.
Romans 7:4 KJV Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Colossians 3:3 KJV For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Watching Gospel Titans duke it out! This thread has the full Gospel Blam!!!!
Watching Gospel Titans duke it out! This thread has the full Gospel Blam!!!!
(Romans 10:4) Emphasis [MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION]... For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
(Romans 7:4) Emphasis [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION]. and [MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION] ... Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
(Hebrews 2:14) Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
(1 Cor. 15:54f, 56) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
My point?
The three of you are awesome! God bless your discussion.
Watching Gospel Titans duke it out! This thread has the full Gospel Blam!!!!
(Romans 10:4) Emphasis [MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION]... For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
(Romans 7:4) Emphasis [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION]. and [MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION] ... Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
The reckoning?
(Hebrews 2:14) Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
(1 Cor. 15:54f, 56) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
The Clarification:
(Romans 7:5f, 7) For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
My point?
The three of you are awesome! God bless your discussion.
Shasta
Well-known member
The Law can be used to refer to the Law of Moses that Israel was bound to under the Old Covenant. The word law is also used to mean the moral law that governs relations between God and man as well as among men. The moral law always stands because it is God's will for humanity. Even before a law was given that said "you shall not kill" murder was already a violation of God's law which is why Cain was culpable for killing his brother.
Romans 8 which speaks much about our liberty in Christ also says the following:
…3 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk (or live) according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4)
By abolishing the enmity between us God made a way for the Holy Spirit to move inside us so that rather than being guided by an external book of laws we could be directed by an internal Guide whose job is to "write the law" on our hearts and minds. In this way the righteous "standard" of God's moral law could be worked out in our lives.
Some people talk as is Christ "obeyed the standard of God's righteousness" so we would not have to as if it were not God's intention to transform us but to make it so we could practice sin with impunity. This is the false doctrine known as antinomianism. Paul warned about this saying that we should not be deceived, that those who practice a lifestyle of sin, that is, they do it unremittingly as a lifestyle, will not inherit the kingdom of God(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21)
Romans 8 which speaks much about our liberty in Christ also says the following:
…3 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk (or live) according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4)
By abolishing the enmity between us God made a way for the Holy Spirit to move inside us so that rather than being guided by an external book of laws we could be directed by an internal Guide whose job is to "write the law" on our hearts and minds. In this way the righteous "standard" of God's moral law could be worked out in our lives.
Some people talk as is Christ "obeyed the standard of God's righteousness" so we would not have to as if it were not God's intention to transform us but to make it so we could practice sin with impunity. This is the false doctrine known as antinomianism. Paul warned about this saying that we should not be deceived, that those who practice a lifestyle of sin, that is, they do it unremittingly as a lifestyle, will not inherit the kingdom of God(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21)
You and musterion have 0 understanding of the Gospel. Which is a concern and makes me wonder if you have the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth.
Let me ask you this, how did Jesus reconcile you and the world unto God?
Did Jesus reconcile you to God by doing something in you. Your Christian life, your works, your obedience. No, Jesus reconciled you unto God while you were still a sinner.
Before you could be saved God demands two things.
1. A life of perfect obedience according to his holy law.
2. A perfect atonement for your sins and the sins of the whole world.
Jesus has met these two conditions in your name and on your behalf before you were born. In Jesus Christ you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the work and person of Jesus Christ you can now stand before God as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.
Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
Oh man! You picked the wrong room to add works of the Law, in any form, to the requirements of salvation.
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