ECT The Gospel in Romans 10

[glorydaz]

The FACT is that the Bible in singular verses doesn't say much about any ONE issue, and is NOT meant to be taken as such. To make a logical fallacy out of A verse is not how one should practise proper hermeneutics.

Verses 5-13 give the context of this scripture, and knowing that, is how one relates the gospel to ANYONE who is an unbeliever. That you think an unbeliever would understand any particular verse to bring about his salvation, without proper exegesis by a believer, is just plain ludicrous.

It's why we have a preacher. The questions people ask are as varied as the individuals who ask them. I've shared the Gospel for over forty years and there is no formula. Anyone who claims there is hasn't been preaching the Gospel, they've been touting their own knowledge.

 

[Danoh]

I can't believe you can keep a straight face after that one. Come on, Jerry, admit you're :rotfl:


This

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

Is the same as this?

Romans 10:8-9 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​ Romans 10:13-14 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

:mock: Jerry claims Paul is describing that groaning in greater detail.

We will see him rationalize his way outta that one too.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can't believe you can keep a straight face after that one. Come on, Jerry, admit you're :rotfl:

I can't believe that you say that the epistle to the Romans is written to unbelievers.

Everyone but you knows that epistle is written to the church at Rome!

You prove that you will go to any length to cover up your blunders.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Glorydaz, don't you see what Jerry is actually up to?

I am trying to establish the truth that those in the Neo-MAD camp are totally confused. You said:

You know, of course, Glorydaz, that you are wasting your time where JS is concerned.

He is a know it all based in other's labors in the Greek, together with other's external writings, together with his being stuck in Mid-Acts views long ago further refined to what turned out was A9D, which he is unable to make any sense of giving what are obviously mediocre study skills outside of those earlier, Mid-Acts understandings that still hold

Of course we all know that those in the Neo-MAD crowd say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. But this verse by itself prove that you and the rest of the Neo-MAD group are sadly mistaken:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Why do you refuse to give us your interpretation of the meaning of that verse, Danoh?

At least I will answer any verse but you run and hide from the verses I present to you that prove your ideas are in error.

 

[God's Truth]

The text says what it says.
It is irrelevant whether you like what it says or not.

And the in text, no matter if you look at the old Greek manuscripts or the English translations, it is plural.

Show from the scriptures how you get that people are baptized for their dead loved ones. Explain why Paul does not rebuke them for this false practice.

I couldn't care any less about what you think about the Greek word.

 

[musterion]

Show from the scriptures how you get that people are baptized for their dead loved ones. Explain why Paul does not rebuke them for this false practice.

Show from the Scriptures where God ever made a covenant with us dog Gentiles, independent of Israel.

 

[God's Truth]

Show from the Scriptures where God ever made a covenant with us dog Gentiles, independent of Israel.

A person was called a dog because like dogs, they did not know their father.

When Jesus was crucified, then all can come to him to be saved. Jesus came for those who already belonged to God. John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

When someone eats Jesus' flesh and drinks his blood will have a Covenant with Jesus.

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[musterion]

A person was called a dog because like dogs, they did not know their father.

The Bible says that where?

When Jesus was crucified, then all can come to him to be saved. Jesus came for those who already belonged to God. John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

No Gentile as a Gentile had been preached to yet, and wouldn't be for some time.

When someone eats Jesus' flesh and drinks his blood will have a Covenant with Jesus.

The Bible says each individual believer has "a covenant with Jesus"?

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

After He said this, He told His disciples not to go to Gentiles, only to Israel.

Here's a new sig line for you:

Oh how I love to make up the words of Jesus!

 

[Danoh]

I am trying to establish the truth that those in the Neo-MAD camp are totally confused. You said:



Of course we all know that those in the Neo-MAD crowd say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. But this verse by itself prove that you and the rest of the Neo-MAD group are sadly mistaken:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Why do you refuse to give us your interpretation of the meaning of that verse, Danoh?

At least I will answer any verse but you run and hide from the verses I present to you that prove your ideas are in error.

Lol, there it is; your infamous lawyer's trick - your "of course we all know that..."

You are not answering any verse; yours is your endless attempt to shove what you believe, right or wrong, down another's throat.

Your problem was solved for at the Cross that John 3:16 is not talking about - try it sometime.

Not that you will, as yours is "For God so loved the world that He gave Jerry..."

 

[Danoh]

A person was called a dog because like dogs, they did not know their father.

You know what that is - its your glaringly obvious reading your own notions into a passage because you do not know that there are actual principles one can point to - in all reading.

Principles that must be learned and consciously followed if a reading is to be properly understood.

Yours is not that. Yours is the broken record that slow friend of mine is ever playing as well.

He reads what he thinks a passage is talking about, at the same time that he believes the Spirit is the one giving him that understanding because, in his screwed up notions, he obeys Jesus.

Try an indirect approach - ask him questions hoping he might actually pause and consider them...and just like you - he either takes offense or fails to get their point, let alone consider them, gone from his mind a moment later.

Try to share actual Bible study principles and - just like you - he takes offense, and shuts down.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lol, there it is; your infamous lawyer's trick - your "of course we all know that..."

You prove that you really cannot understand what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

How else can it be explained that you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of that verse?

Of course you do not like me because I exposed your very limited knowledge of the Scriptures and so you smear me every chance you get.

Do you share glorydaz's opinion that the book of Romans is addressed to unbelievers? LOL

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Later in the same discourse we read:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Of course you deny that the "word" of God by itself can bring life to anyone.

 

[glorydaz]

I can't believe that you say that the epistle to the Romans is written to unbelievers.

Everyone but you knows that epistle is written to the church at Rome!

You prove that you will go to any length to cover up your blunders.

A half truth is a full lie. You are lying, attempting to deceive. I call you out, Liar. I was speaking of some very specific verses in Romans chapter 10, and you know it. Stop slandering me, Jerry. Stop lying about me. I never said the entire letter was written to unbelievers. Now, correct your statement or reap the consequences. That's the way it will work, you know.


You only show your ignorance when you make the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. "All that be in Rome". That means anyone who hears the letter being read.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

Who is Paul addressing here when he says, "O man"? :chew:

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?​

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;​

Those "believers who walk in darkness" like you claim in 1 John 1?


That would certainly be in contradiction to what Paul says.

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.​

 

[glorydaz]

You prove that you really cannot understand what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

How else can it be explained that you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of that verse?

Of course you do not like me because I exposed your very limited knowledge of the Scriptures and so you smear me every chance you get.

Do you share glorydaz's opinion that the book of Romans is addressed to unbelievers? LOL

Go ahead and laugh, LIAR. Stop lying. :king:

 

[Danoh]

You prove that you really cannot understand what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

How else can it be explained that you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of that verse?

Of course you do not like me because I exposed your very limited knowledge of the Scriptures and so you smear me every chance you get.

Do you share glorydaz's opinion that the book of Romans is addressed to unbelievers? LOL

How can I like or not like you if you are not the issue?

If this "spiritual" answer won't cut it given your failure to rightly divide who God has made both you and I in His Son, here is a carnal one communicating something somewhat similar:

How can I not like someone who's avatar is of that great fellow member of the Body of Christ in His Word, Sir Robert Anderson?

You just do not understand where we are coming from due to how married you are to how you approach looking at things.

While it is obvious to me from Romans itself that Romans is written for both the lost and the saved.

For the lost towards getting them saved; for the saved towards establishing them in the truth of the gospel.

Both are Paul's stated desire in Romans.

Again Jerry, I have nothing against you; just against your brow beating ways.

Should we ever meet, the warmth of my embrace will communicate this to you.

In this, I am sorry that you have felt you are the issue being stood against. You are not. You are a brother in the Lord, He shed His blood equally for.

Just get off you darned high horse already.

Now watch you rationalize your need to.

Be the bigger brother; apologize to Glorydaz, for what grief your ways may have caused her - don't even allow yourself to "well, that's because" and or "well, see..."

You see how easy it was for me when you communicated your sense that I do not like you.

No excuses on my part. None. Zilch. Nada.

Why?

The habit of faith by now - that we are not the issue.

That He alone is.

I even began a thread on this, and it went nowhere. Not that that will stop me from developing it further for its own sake - how much it means to the Lord that we not allow ourselves to be the issue.

 

[Danoh]

Go ahead and laugh, LIAR. Stop lying. :king:

Calling him a liar is going a bit too far.

That he has past life issues of the natural man that he gives into is his obvious self-opposition.

The cure is Romans 6-8, not calling him... a liar.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I even began a thread on this, and it went nowhere. Not that that will stop me from developing it further for its own sake - how much it means to the Lord that we not allow ourselves to be the issue.

Have I not the right to defend myself when you accuse me of being dishonest:

Lol, there it is; your infamous lawyer's trick - your "of course we all know that..."

Can I not show others that you are unable to understand the most basic teaching in the Bible so that they will know that you are unable to judge if someone is being dishonest? You continually refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You do not have the knowledge to even be on this forum, much less to accuse others who of trickery.

You are continually attacking my character for doing exactly what Paul said to do here:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.2:5).​

Even though your understanding of the Scriptures is practically nil, you refuse to be corrected by the Scriptures. Instead, you turn on me and try to assassinate my character. You know nothing about what is said here:

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph.4:1-3).​

There are plenty of believers in the Neo-MAD camp who can have a civil discussion with me but you are not one of them.

 

[StanJ]

It's why we have a preacher. The questions people ask are as varied as the individuals who ask them. I've shared the Gospel for over forty years and there is no formula. Anyone who claims there is hasn't been preaching the Gospel, they've been touting their own knowledge.

That is not why we have a preacher. Read Eph 4:11-16 (NIV)
Then, Paul shows how important the written Word of God is in 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV) and 2 Tim 3:14-17 (NIV)

There may not be A formula, but there is a proper way to exegete scriptures and convey them.

Read what Jesus said to the so-called teachers of His day.

Luke 11:46-52 (NIV)

 

[Danoh]

Have I not the right to defend myself when you accuse me of being dishonest:

Can I not show others that you are unable to understand the most basic teaching in the Bible so that they will know that you are unable to judge if someone is being dishonest? You continually refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You do not have the knowledge to even be on this forum, much less to accuse others who of trickery.

You are continually attacking my character for doing exactly what Paul said to do here:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.2:5).​

Even though your understanding of the Scriptures is practically nil, you refuse to be corrected by the Scriptures. Instead, you turn on me and try to assassinate my character. You know nothing about what is said here:

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph.4:1-3).​

There are plenty of believers in the Neo-MAD camp who can have a civil discussion with me but you are not one of them.

Layer's tricks in court are no dishonest; but tricks none the same.

And don't take civil discussion with you as unawareness yours is the one sided agenda of a layer's tricks in court.

You go on about your intent.

Okay, so I was wrong - you are being dishonest - your actual intent being to ram your notions down other's throats.

I still have nothing against you; just against this dishonesty of yours.

Glorydaz was right.

I stand corrected, once more; the very trait your one size fits all dishonesty asserts I lack.

Civil discussion with you while you stab them in the back with you every other post as disobedient to your erroneous notions of the various issues and your attempt to coerce it into others.

Smile, Jerry, Christ died for your sins. Get off the high horse of your hypocrisy already.

Let Him be the issue...

 

[Tambora]

While it is obvious to me from Romans itself that Romans is written for both the lost and the saved.

For the lost towards getting them saved; for the saved towards establishing them in the truth of the gospel.

Both are Paul's stated desire in Romans.

Yep.