God's Truth
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Can't you control yourselves?
ECT The Gospel in Romans 10
- Thread starter glorydaz
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Can't you control yourselves?
glorydaz
Well-known member
What Gospel would Paul be talking about that we "obey" when we "believe unto righteousness"? Isn't that the same Gospel of Peace we see him write about in Eph. and elsewhere? It's right there in plain sight....
Romans 10:15-16KJV
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
God's Truth
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Paul is saying we do not have to do this anymore:
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.
...But we still have to obey Jesus' teachings.
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.
...But we still have to obey Jesus' teachings.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, I'm not so proud that I can't admit I may not be quite the scholar you are, Jerry. I think I made it very clear what I was talking about. In fact, it's the reason I started this thread to begin with....to show Romans 10 is talking about the Gospel of Salvation. If I've failed in clarity it isn't because I didn't try my best.
LOL!
It's gonna be the same in both Greek and English.
Here's just a few English versions for ya.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Otherwise what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? why are they then baptized for them?
Darby Bible Translation
Since what shall the baptised for the dead do if [those that are] dead rise not at all? why also are they baptised for them?
English Revised Version
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?
Weymouth New Testament
Otherwise what will become of those who got themselves baptized for the dead? If the dead do not rise at all, why are these baptized for them?
NET Bible
Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they baptized for them?
GOD'S WORD® Translation
However, people are baptized because the dead [will come back to life]. What will they do? If the dead can't come back to life, why do people get baptized as if they can [come back to life]?
American Standard Version
Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?
God's Truth
New member
You are the one who brought up the Greek.
People do NOT get baptized for their dead loved ones that is nowhere in the scriptures. Yet, you want to argue that the scripture was saying that, and you want to laugh at me?
God's Truth
New member
Paul was not talking about some ignorant Christians getting baptized for their dead loved ones. Paul would have rebuked them and not have used them to explain truth as if they were doing something right!
Paul was speaking about if Jesus was dead then why do people get baptized for the dead.
Paul was speaking about if Jesus was dead then why do people get baptized for the dead.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Anyone who reads that chapter can see that nothing is said about the fact that Christ died for our sins or that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus.
When you preach the gospel to the unsaved do you say nothing about the fact that Christ died for our sins or that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus?
Remember, the gospel is preached to the unsaved so they do not automatically tie any of the things from the tenth chapter to the fact that Christ died for our sins.
The unsaved would not tie any of the things found in the tenth chapter of Romans to the central truth of the gospel, that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
You seem to think that the gospel is for those who are already saved and have a clear understanding of the things concerning how the Lord's Jesus' death relates to our salvation. But unbelievers have no such understanding.
That is why the first thing Paul preached to them is the truth that Christ died for our sins.
You do not think that is necessary and you must think that the unsaved can figure it out for themselves. You say that the gospel can be found in the tenth chapter of Romans. But if you try to preach the gospel to the unsaved out of that chapter they will never know that Christ died for our sins.
You evidently do not think that the unsaved need to know that information. But Paul says that is the first thing he told the unsaved:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-3).
The things said in the tenth chapter of Romans are addressed to those who are already saved. On the other hand, the gospel is for those who are unsaved. You seem to have no understanding of that fact.
God's Truth
New member
What is the matter Tambora, is the KJV not acceptable to you this time?
King James Bible
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Otherwise, what shall those do who are baptized for the sake of the dead, if the dead do not live again? Why are they baptized for the sake of the dead?
World English Bible
Or else what will they do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead aren't raised at all, why then are they baptized for the dead?
Young's Literal Translation
Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead?
ATTENTION GT -
i usually only post scripture because the Word speaks for God. i can see that i need to start explaining things for kids like you.
let's go to 1 Corinthians chapter 15 - (i prefer KJV) - whatever you like -
pay attention: starting at 1 Corinthians 15:12 KJV - Paul begins speaking in 'ifs' - hypothetical, understand ? - this continues through verse 32 - 1 Corinthians 15:32 KJV - Paul picks up with reality in verse 33.
see GT ? now maybe 1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV can register in your head.
Paul is preaching the Risen Christ and OUR future
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 KJV -
ok ? we can't hold your hand to point out words like IF - which changes the meaning of everything - grow up and read the Word as it's written. you're wasting everyone's time -
you hurl insults and sidetrack threads, making no effort to rightly divide -
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It's my favorite version.
Yep, just like I've been saying all along ---- both the Greek and the English, whether they use 'the dead' or 'them', it is plural.
God's Truth
New member
If Jesus did not rise from the dead, why would anyone get baptized for the dead?
God's Truth
New member
I do not even care to read what you post, let alone reply to what you say.
if the sun came up at night, why would anyone sleep ?
where are you getting the idea that people get baptized FOR other dead people ? - :kookoo:
The text says what it says.
It is irrelevant whether you like what it says or not.
And the in text, no matter if you look at the old Greek manuscripts or the English translations, it is plural.
Because they did. It was a pagan practice.
Notice that Paul does not say that "we" (the faithful) are baptized for the dead, but that "they" do it.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Jerry, you are the perfect example of an educated idiot. What you preach out of your textbooks wouldn't pass for preaching the Gospel on any street corner in the world.
So, when you write a letter home, does your mother begin reading in the middle of the letter, where you talk about shooting a moose, so she then has to wonder what kind of an animal a moose might be? You don't notice that Romans 1 and Romans 3 and Romans 5 come before Romans 10? Paul first speaks of the Gospel in chapter 1, and he mentions it by name in Romans 10. Yet, you deny it's there?
By golly, you have a point. :kookoo:
It's why we have a preacher. The unsaved have to know who Christ is before they hear that He died for our sins. Who is He that we have to "confess" Him in order to be saved? Romans 10:9 He is God come in the flesh. You'll have to show them John 1:1 and John 1:14. They need to hear what sin is and how it separates us from God. That brings you to the LAW and Romans 10:4. His death burial and resurrection are what we are to "believe". Romans 10:9.
You're reading into that verse just like you read into so many others. Who Christ is must always come first and I'm sure Paul knew that.
Must be why Paul says what one must do to be saved. :readthis:
Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I use this chapter all the time to preach the Gospel. I tell LA and Keypurr that confessing the LORD JESUS means to acknowledge He is God with us...come in the flesh....who came down from heaven to dwell among us. Then I give them verses to prove it. I tell others to "believe in your heart" is not the same as head knowledge, but is being "fully persuaded" of our Lord's resurrection from the dead. And I explain that to "believe unto righteousness" is justification by faith....which Paul expounds on in this very chapter. I use that verse all the time on God's UNtruth who tries to claim she can "obey" unto righteousness. Romans 10 is actually one of the best chapters to use when preaching the Gospel, and I see people using it all the time. But not you...oh no.
If you think you can preach the Gospel using a few verses from 1 Cor. 15, you may as well stay in that classroom and pass out a bunch of failing grades to your pupils. The Gospel is there in Romans 10, Jerry, with justification by faith. I see it even if you don't.
Romans 10:14-15
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
You know, of course, Glorydaz, that you are wasting your time where JS is concerned.
He is a know it all based in other's labors in the Greek, together with other's external writings, together with his being stuck in Mid-Acts views long ago further refined to what turned out was A9D, which he is unable to make any sense of giving what are obviously mediocre study skills outside of those earlier, Mid-Acts understandings that still hold; all this further bogged down by this profound insecurity of his that so compels him to have to follow others within Acts 9 Dispensationalism attempting to brow beat them into his errors.
I had hoped that had died with its now infamous father, but I'd forgotten that Jerry is one more of his sons in this nonsense still with us.
Reminds me of what one of their wives said to me when her husband died; only to catch herself: he'd so succeded in training her to fit his bullying mode...
"I'm so relieved he's gone; I feel so free - oh my; what have I just said; please forgive me!"
'Don't worry,' I replied 'he really is gone...'
The poor thing...
He is a know it all based in other's labors in the Greek, together with other's external writings, together with his being stuck in Mid-Acts views long ago further refined to what turned out was A9D, which he is unable to make any sense of giving what are obviously mediocre study skills outside of those earlier, Mid-Acts understandings that still hold; all this further bogged down by this profound insecurity of his that so compels him to have to follow others within Acts 9 Dispensationalism attempting to brow beat them into his errors.
I had hoped that had died with its now infamous father, but I'd forgotten that Jerry is one more of his sons in this nonsense still with us.
Reminds me of what one of their wives said to me when her husband died; only to catch herself: he'd so succeded in training her to fit his bullying mode...
"I'm so relieved he's gone; I feel so free - oh my; what have I just said; please forgive me!"
'Don't worry,' I replied 'he really is gone...'
The poor thing...
glorydaz
Well-known member
It sounds like you know him better than I do. I have been on some go rounds with him that always go nowhere, so you'd think I'd learn. He may have to join God'sUNtruth on my ignore list, then they'd have even more in common than they already do. :AoO: