The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)

shima

New member
>>History shows that such subjectivism is dangerous... <<

Extremely. Some things cannot be understood objectively. But subjectivism means that what you WANT to be true often leaves quite a mark on your view of reality. Its called "Wishfull thinking" and yes, it works. But for that person ONLY.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Which is why, as an atheist and an empiricist, I look at the behavior of religionists or others who claim to have been "regenerated" or otherwise metamorphosized...
 

RogerB

New member
Which is why, as an atheist and an empiricist, I look at the behavior of religionists or others who claim to have been "regenerated" or otherwise metamorphosized...

You are a hypocrite.

You trust everybody? You question nothing?
 

RogerB

New member
Just like that woman in Texas KNEW that God was telling her to kill her kids? Just like the people that died in Guyana with Jim Jones KNEW that God was telling them what to do? Just like the people who emasculated themselves and committed suicide at the Heaven's Gate group KNEW what was right?

Far from baseless, you hypocrite. You are implying that these "religionists" (maybe even Christians) committed heinous acts. Why do you believe them when they say "God told me to do it"?

You know my point. It's just easier for you to ignore it.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
This one got buried...

This one got buried...

Originally posted by Z Man
Free will exists, but not in reguards to ones salvation. Man cannot choose God because we despise God. We love sin because that is our nature. Loving God is an impossible choice that man cannot make; that takes an act of God. ;)
Thus speaks the Calvinist from his viewpoint of the total depravity of man...

So I cannot "accept Christ" as so many Christians here assert so vigorously.

I must wait for the deity to reel me in...
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by RogerB
Far from baseless, you hypocrite. You are implying that these "religionists" (maybe even Christians) committed heinous acts. Why do you believe them when they say "God told me to do it"?
Why not? What basis do you have for not believing them about this?

I wouldn't call you a hypocrite, merely ignorant, since your religion certainly has a basis for such behavior as deity ordered in its sacred writings...
 

Z Man

New member
Re: This one got buried...

Re: This one got buried...

Originally posted by Zakath
So I cannot "accept Christ" as so many Christians here assert so vigorously.
When God regenerates your heart, you'll choose Him.
I must wait for the deity to reel me in...
There is no such thing as waiting when it comes to one's salvation. If one is waiting for God to "awaken" them, they need to wait no more, since they believe in God's saving grace enough to be waiting for Him to take action.

The bottom line is man loves sin, so they do their own thing. Yeah, they may know of God and have heard of Him before, but they want nothing to do with Him. And they definitly will not choose God on their own decision. But when and if God has elected them to salvation, and regenerates an individuals heart, they will openly accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. It's an instantaneous change; there is no waiting period...
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Re: Re: This one got buried...

Re: Re: This one got buried...

Originally posted by Z Man
When God regenerates your heart, you'll choose Him.
So heaven is filled with automatons, eh? Or is it closer to Borg..."Resistence if futile. You will be assimilated." :rolleyes:

... But when and if God has elected them to salvation, and regenerates an individuals heart, they will openly accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. It's an instantaneous change; there is no waiting period...
No will, no wait...no way! Better to die standing than live on my knees... :D
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Anyone who meets God, falls in love with Him. Our service is not one of slavery, but dedication, due to love.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by famousGandalf7
Anyone who meets God, falls in love with Him.
So the Christian "Satan" is merely a "star crossed lover", eh?

Our service is not one of slavery, but dedication, due to love.
The most pitiful slaves do not believe they are slaves, but truly love their owners...
 

Shaun

New member
So the Christian "Satan" is merely a "star crossed lover", eh?
Satan was thrown down because he tried to make himself God out of pride. This is why pride is the most dangerous sin.

The most pitiful slaves do not believe they are slaves, but truly love their owners...
I truly love my Lord. :D
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Shaun
Satan was thrown down because he tried to make himself God out of pride.
Oh really? Why do you think this happened?

This is why pride is the most dangerous sin.
Where do you get the idea that one type of sin is more dangerous than another?

I truly love my Lord.
I'm sure you think you do. My Hindu neighbors love their deity, too.
 

Gerald

Resident Fiend
Originally posted by Shaun
Satan was thrown down because he tried to make himself God out of pride. This is why pride is the most dangerous sin.


I truly love my Lord. :D
Post proof or retract!

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana:
 
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Nova

New member
Originally posted by Z Man
Do you believe in God? If so, you're a Christian. Do you not believe in God? Then you're not a Christian, but an atheist. There is no in between because there's only one God, and either you believe in Him or not...

Ah, I expected such a non-negotiable black/white dichotomy.

This is apparently your deeply held belief and a lot of the people here don't seem like the types to recognize other possibilities, however valid, since you've already cemented yourselves into a very inflexible ideology.

Of course, from my viewpoint, what the above quote stated so matter-of-factly is to me a matter of subjective belief/opinion.


For the record, I'm an agnostic because the existance of any god can neither be proven or disproven (although I'm sure many will disagree with that one and reply the Bible is 'proof'. ) I don't believe in the Judeo/Christian concept of god. Based on my own studies and ponderings, I lean towards the possibility that if there is anything that could be called 'god' for lack of a better term, s/he/it/us/them is The Cosmos itself. (pantheism).

And I can already see the direction this dialogue might subsequently take...flat denial of my position, assumptions that I take this stance because I can tailor it to my every relativistic whim, lots of quibbling over subjectivism vs. absolutism, back and forth, forth and back and never the twain worldviews shall meet. :bang:

But if I am jumping to false conclusions, I'll stand corrected. I offered a synopsis of where I think this dialogue might be going to save ourselves the trouble of a long, drawn-out bickerfest that will never be resolved in the first place. All I opt to do in such a situation is agree to disagree. Far as I and logical objectivity are concerned, Jehovah is no more likely to exist than Isis.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Hang in there, Nova. Someday you'll be an atheist too! :D

Of course someday, so will Z Man! :chuckle:
 

Nova

New member
Re: Truth or Dare

Re: Truth or Dare

Originally posted by Lion
Nova-You said:
How about a slightly different view?

I believe you may have been a Christian at one time, but are not a Christian now. How old were you when you believed, and how old were you when you decided it was bunk?

I started out being a Christian pretty much by default, since as a small child I simply followed my parent's lead. As I got older I took a less passive, more active role in my faith. As a pre-teen noted for being mature for her age, I did sincerely believed in needing to be 'saved' and tried my darndest to experience the gnosis of a 'relationship with God' that I was supposed to have.

In my early teens, I made an effort to actually read the entire Bible from cover to cover and it was this, among other factors, that actually lead me to doubt my faith. It didn't happen abruptly but over a period of a year or so, and I devoted a lot of study (from all viewpoints concerning Christianity, not just the subjective belief perspective) and pondering to reach my final decision that Christianity, as you put it, is 'bunk', and I was 14 at the time. 'Course that is a very brief synopsis and doesn't really cover everything, but it suffices.

I'm familliar with the 'Age of Accountability' doctrine, and I can assure you that according to the ideology of most of the Christians here, I am probably 'lost and blind' and behind the wheel of a reckless handbasket to hell.
 
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