The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
Shaun
New member
Aye, but they still exist. I agree that any purpose outside of giving to the glory of God is vanity--see my signature. But the point I'm making is that they'll still exist; maybe not for the right purpose that means anything, but existance anyway.
I understand your point--you're just wording it a bit too far.
Super? Or just flashy?
Super? Or just flashy?
Nova-I believe, from what you said earlier, that, yes, you were a Christian (a follower of Christ), when you were a child. Then at around the age of fourteen you decided that Christianity was “bunk” and chose not to be a Christian.
I will assume that you are an adult, beyond the age of twenty, now, and that you are no longer a Christian because you have chosen to not follow Christ.
I am a firm believer in the doctrine of eternal security. Once a person beyond the age of accountability (20 years old), accepts Christ, that person is sealed. You, however, although a Christian in that you followed Christ as a child, were never sealed because you were not yet at the age where God considers you old enough to enter into a permanent relationship.
You are now though, so perhaps you should really look at the evidence of whether the God of the Bible is real or not, with an adult’s understanding, instead of that of a fourteen year old.
You stated that when you tried to actually read the Bible, it helped to pull you away from Christianity. Why? What was it you read that convinced you it was false?
Super? Or just flashy?
Nova-I believe, from what you said earlier, that, yes, you were a Christian (a follower of Christ), when you were a child. Then at around the age of fourteen you decided that Christianity was “bunk” and chose not to be a Christian.
I will assume that you are an adult, beyond the age of twenty, now, and that you are no longer a Christian because you have chosen to not follow Christ.
I am a firm believer in the doctrine of eternal security. Once a person beyond the age of accountability (20 years old), accepts Christ, that person is sealed. You, however, although a Christian in that you followed Christ as a child, were never sealed because you were not yet at the age where God considers you old enough to enter into a permanent relationship.
You are now though, so perhaps you should really look at the evidence of whether the God of the Bible is real or not, with an adult’s understanding, instead of that of a fourteen year old.
You stated that when you tried to actually read the Bible, it helped to pull you away from Christianity. Why? What was it you read that convinced you it was false?
Nova
New member
Re: Super? Or just flashy?
Re: Super? Or just flashy?
Affirmative.
For the record, I'm 23. Although I left Christianity at 14 I have occaision to think about it and even study it sometimes (heck, I even read the Bible when I don't have anything else in the house to read), and I am at the same conclusion I reached when I was 14. The reason why actually reading and thinking about the Bible caused me to doubt it was because of the metaphysical and theological contradictions, to me its just a book of myths and legends while many others take it as literal historical narrative. I have heard just about every argument, if not all of them, fundamentalist apologists use but it all boils down to a matter of subjective faith, I don't consider Christianity any more likely to be true than Islam or Hinduism.
If I were convinced again that Christianity were true (and that would literally take a miracle), I probably wouldn't even follow it then, I find its depiction of god, the whole metaphysical system and the idea that billions of basically decent people should suffer eternal torment to be ridiculously unjust. 'Course I realize according to literalist interpretations I too would go to 'hell', I doubt anyone would have the spine to suffer eternal torment by their own *concious* choice in the name of their own principles, so the only way I'd ever hypothetically accept such a god is not out of sincere love but abject terror.
I really, really don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate about scriptures and the ins and outs of theology, not in this thread. I assure you I've been down that road before many a time and since I'm still close to my parents who are Christians, I have to argue my position a lot.
Re: Super? Or just flashy?
Affirmative.
For the record, I'm 23. Although I left Christianity at 14 I have occaision to think about it and even study it sometimes (heck, I even read the Bible when I don't have anything else in the house to read), and I am at the same conclusion I reached when I was 14. The reason why actually reading and thinking about the Bible caused me to doubt it was because of the metaphysical and theological contradictions, to me its just a book of myths and legends while many others take it as literal historical narrative. I have heard just about every argument, if not all of them, fundamentalist apologists use but it all boils down to a matter of subjective faith, I don't consider Christianity any more likely to be true than Islam or Hinduism.
If I were convinced again that Christianity were true (and that would literally take a miracle), I probably wouldn't even follow it then, I find its depiction of god, the whole metaphysical system and the idea that billions of basically decent people should suffer eternal torment to be ridiculously unjust. 'Course I realize according to literalist interpretations I too would go to 'hell', I doubt anyone would have the spine to suffer eternal torment by their own *concious* choice in the name of their own principles, so the only way I'd ever hypothetically accept such a god is not out of sincere love but abject terror.
I really, really don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate about scriptures and the ins and outs of theology, not in this thread. I assure you I've been down that road before many a time and since I'm still close to my parents who are Christians, I have to argue my position a lot.
Well, there is that ofcourse.
Basically, I cannot believe in a system where the ONLY determining factor that decides if you go to hell or not is your FAITH in the claims of a person.
What I MIGHT believe is a system that judges you based on your actions (or, more likely, the REASONS for those actions) in your life. Thus, if you were the cause of happyness in other peoples lives, you would be "rewarded", although such a reward would not be nessecary (love and happyness are their own rewards).
Ever since I stopped focussing on MY happyness and started to give happyness, friendship and love to other people my life has improved considderably.
Basically, I cannot believe in a system where the ONLY determining factor that decides if you go to hell or not is your FAITH in the claims of a person.
What I MIGHT believe is a system that judges you based on your actions (or, more likely, the REASONS for those actions) in your life. Thus, if you were the cause of happyness in other peoples lives, you would be "rewarded", although such a reward would not be nessecary (love and happyness are their own rewards).
Ever since I stopped focussing on MY happyness and started to give happyness, friendship and love to other people my life has improved considderably.
Zakath
Resident Atheist
<places tongue firmly in cheek>
Careful there, shima. Didn't you know that being kind to others is strictly the province of religionists? Non-religionists must be self-centered, immoral, perverted deviates. If we're not, we upset their entire carefully constructed universe! :chuckle:
Careful there, shima. Didn't you know that being kind to others is strictly the province of religionists? Non-religionists must be self-centered, immoral, perverted deviates. If we're not, we upset their entire carefully constructed universe! :chuckle:
>>Non-religionists must be self-centered, immoral,
perverted deviates. <<
Strangely enough, you are describing almost every religious person I've met. Most non-religionists I've met are very social people.
>>If we're not, we upset their entire carefully constructed universe! <<
Let it all come crashing down. Its about time that it did.
perverted deviates. <<
Strangely enough, you are describing almost every religious person I've met. Most non-religionists I've met are very social people.
>>If we're not, we upset their entire carefully constructed universe! <<
Let it all come crashing down. Its about time that it did.
