The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)

[Gerald]

Originally posted by RogerB
You misunderstood (fancy that). You ask any Christian the 5 questions I posted earlier and you will be overwhelmed with proof.

Proof of what? That people believe invisible entities muck around in their lives? Nothing overwhelming about that.

Find one to talk to in person in order to avoid word games.

Impossible. Word games are part and parcel of supernaturalist beliefs.

So there's a limit on how far out in the future Prophets can predict? :doh:

Well, if a given event comes to pass long after you're dead, it doesn't do much for your credibility...

...who needs believers? :chuckle:

I've often asked that question myself.

Here's another prophesy for you: You, RogerB, will slip in the shower before 20 years have passed.

Prophesy is easy!:devil:

 

[RogerB]

Proof of what? That people believe [God is active] in their lives? Nothing overwhelming about that.

Word games corrected for clarity and truth.

You have no valid challenge to someone talking about a personal experience. well, you could call them a liar but that would be stupid and childish. :doh:

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by RogerB
You have no valid challenge to someone talking about a personal experience.

Indeed! That is not in dispute. If someone claims to be having conversations with invisible friends, I'm in no position to say he isn't. At the same time, if he tries to introduce his invisible friends to me, I have no reason to act as if said invisible friends are actually there...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Zakath;
Don't look at me, it wasn't my turn to put out the elf repellent!

Billy;
Careful guys, you might hurt his 'elf-esteem'....

Perhaps you'd better keep such comments to your elf. :chuckle:

 

[BillyBob]

Thanks for your contribution to my 'elf loathing'.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by RogerB
But YOU keep asking and asking and asking....so people feel compelled to answer with something. Ask different questions, like:

1. What was your life like before you stepped aside and let God take control?

2. How have you seen God working in your life?

3. Has God answered your prayers?

4. What happenes when you turn a problem over to God compared to what happenes when you try to deal with it on your own?

5. In what ways does God speak to you?

All five question beg the question of the existence of the deity, which is what the atheist is discussing in the first place...

Why do I find it difficult to take claims of "God told me..." as factual?

Two reasons:

First, take the recent case of Deanna LaJune Laney, a fundamentalist Christian who claimed to have "heard from God". Laney stands charged with the May 10th murder of two of her three children by stoning. The third, an infant, survives in critical condition. Laney is a long-time member of an Assembly of God church and is the sister-in-law of the pastor, Gary Bell.

Or the case of another Texas mother, Andrea Yates, who drowned her five children to "save them from hell".

There are Christians on this board who are in favor of reinstituting stoning as a form of execution, based on the idea that "God said it was the proper thing to do."

A question might be asked; How come "God" tells these followers one thing and other followers, who oppose such activities, something else?

Second, recent research has shown that properly trained people could, in appropriate clinical setting, take many religionists and induce a purely psychosomatic "divine experience" that they would be unable to distinguish from what they claim is a "normal" experience of their deity.

Since that has been demonstrated in a lab setting in several instances, merely claiming that "God did it" or "God said it" is sorely lacking as sound objective evidence.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Thanks for your contribution to my 'elf loathing'.

Perhaps you should sign up for a course in "elf esteem", to build up your "elf image."

 

[RogerB]

Stop with the jokes or elf I'm gonna sick my orc on you.

 

[Zakath]

Aww, go play with your elf, RogerB!

 

[RogerB]

Two reasons....

I can't believe you actually posted this, Zakath. Ever hear of mental illness? I'll bet that the majority of the Christians on this site are NOT mentally ill and have never killed one of their children.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by RogerB
I can't believe you actually posted this, Zakath. Ever hear of mental illness? I'll bet that the majority of the Christians on this site are NOT mentally ill and have never killed one of their children.

Yet one of the greatest biblical men of faith was lauded for being willing to kill his own son, at the order of YHWH...

I don't think it's an unreasonable topic for discussion.

What I do notice is that you didn't address any of the questions I raised...

 

[RogerB]

A question might be asked; How come "God" tells these followers one thing and other followers, who oppose such activities, something else?

This is the only question I found in your post and I think my comments on mental illness suffice.

 

[Zakath]

So you are implying that anyone who claims to hear from God is mentally ill?

 

[RogerB]

What are you saying, Zakath? Atheists aren't capable of thinking?

This is getting so old.


Welcome to the planet
Welcome to existence
Everyone's here
Everybody's watching you now
Everybody waits for you now
What happens next?

I dare you to move
I dare you to lift yourself up off the floor
I dare you to move
Like today never happened
Today never happened before

Welcome to the far out
Welcome to resistance
Attention is here
Between who you are and who you could be
Between how it is and how it should be

I dare you to move
I dare you to lift yourself up off the floor
I dare you to move
Like today never happened
Today never happened

Maybe redemption has stories to tell
Maybe forgiveness is right where you fell
Where can you run to escape from yourself?
Where you gonna go?
Salvation is here

I dare you to move
I dare you to lift yourself up off the floor
I dare you to move
Like today never happened
Today never happened
Today never happened before

 

[prodigalson]

If you have ever taken LSD (20 years or so ago when LSD actually existed) you can only imagine how fascinating life will be with (not just a redeemed body) but also a redeemed mind. I can't wait.

I have almost used this same analogy with some of my friends that say Heaven(of all places) will be boring. I always tell them, do you honestly think God will not have a high better than anything anyone has ever experienced on Earth. I have never felt as good as I did on 3 hits of good acid but I know God will never be outdone. God is extreme in what he does(b/c he is God) so heaven will not just be "a little" better than an Earthly high.

Now to the topic at hand.....

Say what you will but I used to have a core desire for sin and after I was saved my core desire is Righteousness, that is impossable to do "on your own". My life might not always reflect Righteousness but that is b/c it is hard going against fleshly desires and with no accountability, it is almost impossible. Temptation is very, very, very hard, but if I had a wish it would be a righteous one.

What are the odds of Evolution happening like it did? 30,000,000 to 1? It's been so long since I saw that odd it is probably not right, but as a person who has gambled in his life, I tell you odds like that never happen and I mean never. People wouldn't give that bet anm ounce of thought but millions of people have bet their life on it. Strange.

I came in late to this discussion so if anything in my post has been addresses(which it probably has been), just ignore it.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by RogerB
What are you saying, Zakath? Atheists aren't capable of thinking?

Once again Rodger the dodger demonstrates why his nickname fits him so well...

I should know better than to expect a straight answer from a religionist...

Well you cannot say I didn't give you every opportunity...

This is getting so old.

Agreed, come back when you have somthing besides schlocky poetry to contribute... :doh:

 

[BillyBob]

Prodigalson;
What are the odds of Evolution happening like it did? 30,000,000 to 1?

Billy;
It is probably much less likely than that. There are more stars than that just in our own galaxy, say, 100,000,000. So the odds would be 100,000,000 to 1 that evolution happened the way it did in this galaxy. Oh, but then each star probably has at least a few planets circling around it, so the odds may be 500,000,000 to 1. Then multiply that number times the number of galaxies there are and the odds become 500,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 that life would have evolved the way it has on this planet.

That should make you feel pretty special.....

 

[Z Man]

Actually, I think the odds may be more than that....like 1 googleplex or something. That would be a 1 with 60 zeros behind it, or something like that. I really don't know; I'm just shooting in the dark here. But I do think it may be more than what Billy Bob stated....

 

[BillyBob]

It may be a googleplex times a googleplex to 1. The more unlikely the odds, the more amazing our existence becomes.....

 

[One Eyed Jack]

A google is 1 followed by 100 zeros. A googleplex is 1 followed by one google zeros, which is a staggeringly huge number -- there aren't that many atoms in the universe. Come to think of it, I don't believe there are even one google atoms in the universe...