The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Skeptic
I believe those people who worship the false mythological Christian God are only doing what too many humans do: searching for love in the wrong places, and basing their beliefs on their emotions and their indoctrination. But, "eternal" love can only come from the imagination.

I may not know you as a person Skeptic, but I do know you're human and thus I know your spirit begs to differ. You so long and desire to recieve love and you search for it everywhere; whether it be in money, sucess, fame, and/or women (or men, whatever you prefer, I don't know). The point is, without love, humans cease to be. It's what drives us to do the things we do. Some people kill for money because they love their drugs; or they kill because they are in love with a person whose life is in danger. People die for their country because they love it. People pay outrageous prices at resturants and suchforth out of love without thinking twice about the price. But humans are never satisfied with love from just material things. We need something that lasts; something with a purpose; a love that is so real and true that it changes who we are. That love my friend, can only come from God. To deny otherwise will destroy a man's spirit deep inside that only they must live with, like that of the late famed atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, whose diary spoke of a tragic life spent alone and in misery. Her whole life was spent denying the very thing she was searching for; an eternal love from our Heavenly Father, our Lord God Almighty, who reigns forever and ever with peace, grace, mercy, justice, and undying eternal love.

 

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Z Man
I may not know you as a person Skeptic, but I do know you're human and thus I know your spirit begs to differ. You so long and desire to recieve love and you search for it everywhere; whether it be in money, sucess, fame, and/or women (or men, whatever you prefer, I don't know). The point is, without love, humans cease to be. It's what drives us to do the things we do. Some people kill for money because they love their drugs; or they kill because they are in love with a person whose life is in danger. People die for their country because they love it. People pay outrageous prices at resturants and suchforth out of love without thinking twice about the price.

I never said people don't want or need love in their lives.

But humans are never satisfied with love from just material things. We need something that lasts;...

Sorry to disappoint you, but nothing lasts forever. And this is not a bad thing. This is the way of the universe, based on empirical evidence, as far as anyone can rationally tell. I like our universe. I am not depressed by the prospect of death. I believe being dead will feel like it felt before I was born: can't remember; no problem. There will be no "me" to remember what it was like being alive - just like before I was born. The only reason why some people, such as yourself, aspire to something that lasts is because they have been duped into believing things for which there is no evidence (i.e. the supernatural and eternal whatever) and they don't appreciate what they have NOW! Too many people live in the future, rather than the present. Don't waste your life. Love people now! Don't worry about some mythical abstract "eternal" love you might have after you die. The world would be a better place if more people focused on making the most of the present, by loving their fellow humans, as well as their small planet, now!

...something with a purpose; a love that is so real and true that it changes who we are.

All love has a purpose - just not an ultimate eternal purpose. Natural love is very real and true, and often changes who we are. Supernatural love is myth.

That love my friend, can only come from God.

Such a waste of time.

No evidence, other than what a book says. The human brain has the capacity to form rational and irrational emotional attachments to a vast number of things. The "love of God" is just one of many irrational emotional attachments of which humans often experience. It may feel real, but it is such a waste of time.

To deny otherwise will destroy a man's spirit deep inside that only they must live with, ...

Your indoctrination has caused you to presume the existence of things (i.e. 'spirit deep inside') for which there is no empirical evidence.

...like that of the late famed atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, whose diary spoke of a tragic life spent alone and in misery.

There are many people, Christians and atheists alike, who experience tragedy in their lives, and who spend much of their lives alone and in misery. This is nothing new.

I am happy. But, I would rather be sad and maintain my intellectual integrity and know the truth to the best of my ability, based on reason and evidence, than be happy and live a lie, by jumping to conclusions based on irrational traditional myths, dogma, and my perceived subjective needs or feeling of "eternal" emotional fulfillment.

Her whole life was spent denying the very thing she was searching for; an eternal love from our Heavenly Father, our Lord God Almighty, who reigns forever and ever with peace, grace, mercy, justice, and undying eternal love.

Please. :doh:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Sorry to disappoint you, but nothing lasts forever. And this is not a bad thing. This is the way of the universe, based on empirical evidence, as far as anyone can rationally tell. I like our universe. I am not depressed by the prospect of death. I believe being dead will feel like it felt before I was born: can't remember; no problem. There will be no "me" to remember what it was like being alive - just like before I was born. The only reason why some people, such as yourself, aspire to something that lasts is because they have been duped into believing things for which there is no evidence (i.e. the supernatural and eternal whatever) and they don't appreciate what they have NOW! Too many people live in the future, rather than the present. Don't waste your life. Love people now! Don't worry about some mythical abstract "eternal" love you might have after you die. The world would be a better place if more people focused on making the most of the present, by loving their fellow humans, as well as their small planet, now!

It sounds to me then that life is nothing more than a rave/orgy pleasure do-want-makes-you-happy party. But this can't be, because we have laws and moral codes. Some things we wish to do to make us happy, we can't because of laws. But why have them if life has no purpose other than to enjoy it? Whose to tell me I can't have fun with my life?

There are many people, Christians and atheists alike, who experience tragedy in their lives, and who spend much of their lives alone and in misery. This is nothing new.

But you said earlier you were happy with loving the people around you and enjoying life. So was Madalyn O'Hair; or so people thought. She had a family to love and everything was going right for her in her life as far as her beliefs and everything. But somehow, deep inside her heart, she was miserable. Her diary is a witness to the pain and sadness she went through all because she denied God's love. With all that she had the people that loved her in her life, she still cried out, "Somebody, somewhere, love me!".

I am happy.

Or so you tell everyone... But deep down inside your heart that you have hardened, and maybe you can't see it because of your own stubborness, you are running from God; rebelling with everything you've got. You are desperately searching for answers apart from Him, but human love and material things on earth will not make a person happy. Only God can make you satisfied, and Madalyn Murray found that out the hard way. I only pray you do not put yourself through the same torment.

 

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Z Man
It sounds to me then that life is nothing more than a rave/orgy pleasure do-want-makes-you-happy party. But this can't be, because we have laws and moral codes. Some things we wish to do to make us happy, we can't because of laws. But why have them if life has no purpose other than to enjoy it? Whose to tell me I can't have fun with my life?

We have laws and moral codes, but these are determined by the cultures in which we live. We should enjoy life now, within the constraints that our laws and moral codes permit. Sometimes our laws and moral codes should be modified to ensure civil liberties or to address an issue that was not addressed before. But, these laws and moral codes are not etched in some supernatural eternal stone. Life has purposes given to use by our culture and our experiences. But there are not necessarily any ULTIMATE purposes given to us from some mythical God.

But you said earlier you were happy with loving the people around you and enjoying life. So was Madalyn O'Hair; or so people thought. She had a family to love and everything was going right for her in her life as far as her beliefs and everything. But somehow, deep inside her heart, she was miserable. Her diary is a witness to the pain and sadness she went through all because she denied God's love. With all that she had the people that loved her in her life, she still cried out, "Somebody, somewhere, love me!".

Again, despite the propaganda, being a Christian does not immunize you from tragedy, loneliness, or misery. Likewise, despite the propaganda, being an atheist does not doom you to a life full of tragedy, loneliness, or misery. I'm sorry to hear about Madalyn O'Hair's life. But her atheism did not necessarily have anything to do with the tragedy, loneliness, or misery in her life.

Or so you tell everyone... But deep down inside your heart that you have hardened, and maybe you can't see it because of your own stubborness, you are running from God; rebelling with everything you've got. You are desperately searching for answers apart from Him, but human love and material things on earth will not make a person happy. Only God can make you satisfied, and Madalyn Murray found that out the hard way. I only pray you do not put yourself through the same torment.

Such a narrow view of life your indoctrination has given you. Please. :kookoo:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Skeptic
We have laws and moral codes, but these are determined by the cultures in which we live. We should enjoy life now, within the constraints that our laws and moral codes permit. Sometimes our laws and moral codes should be modified to ensure civil liberties or to address an issue that was not addressed before. But, these laws and moral codes are not etched in some supernatural eternal stone. Life has purposes given to use by our culture and our experiences. But there are not necessarily any ULTIMATE purposes given to us from some mythical God.

If life's only purpose is to be enjoyed, as you say, then how can someone deny me that right to enjoy my life? If pleasure is the only purpose to life, then laws should be abandoned...

Again, despite the propaganda, being a Christian does not immunize you from tragedy, loneliness, or misery.

I never said it does. In fact, I believe being a Christian brings on my heartaches and misery just because we are aware and guilty of our sins we commit everyday. It's an ongoing battle. To not be a Christian is to know a decieving peace. But to know God is to know real peace...

But at least if tragedy or misery does happen in a Christians life, we have hope. That's something atheists lack...

Likewise, despite the propaganda, being an atheist does not doom you to a life full of tragedy, loneliness, or misery.

I'm not saying that about Atheists. Many atheists live normal, happy lives, such as Madalyn Murray O'Hair did. But deep inside your heart is where the pain hurts, and the tragedy and misery take place. We may not be able to see it on the outside, but you can definitly feel it on the inside...

I'm sorry to hear about Madalyn O'Hair's life. But her atheism did not necessarily have anything to do with the tragedy, loneliness, or misery in her life.

It had everything to do with her misery and loneliness. Why else would she state, "Somebody, somewhere, love me", even though she wasn't alone in life and had her own children that loved her? She was busy denying the love she desired her whole life, just like every other atheists do.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Z Man
If life's only purpose is to be enjoyed, as you say, then how can someone deny me that right to enjoy my life? If pleasure is the only purpose to life, then laws should be abandoned...

Because to live successfully in a society with others, any claim of absolute rights must be tempered by respect for the rights of my neighbors, making those rights subjective and based upon the society in which I choose to live.

As the old saying goes, "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

But at least if tragedy or misery does happen in a Christians life, we have hope. That's something atheists lack...

Hope in a delusion or self-induced imagination can also be small comfort, as many former religionists found out.

I'm not saying that about Atheists. Many atheists live normal, happy lives, such as Madalyn Murray O'Hair did.

Madalyn O'Hair was a nutball and hardly representative of your average, run of the mill atheist.

But deep inside your heart is where the pain hurts, and the tragedy and misery take place. We may not be able to see it on the outside, but you can definitly feel it on the inside...

Be careful looking at people like O'Hair and her ilk. As Christians are so fond of declaring after one of their own kills their children, or commits some other heinous crime, we should not judge an entire group based upon the actions of a few famous (or infamous) individuals.

I am an atheist and am very happy. I have a successful marriage (25+ years) four wonderful adult children, a profitable business, etc. Why don't you judge atheism by someone like me? :think:

Because it wouldn't fit with your preconceived ideas that all atheists must be miserable... :nono:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Zakath
Because to live successfully...

Successfully? What's the purpose in that? He who dies with the most toys still dies. What good will being successfull do when death comes knockin' on your door? Besides, not everyone in life agrees with you on being successfull; some, like Skeptic, believe life's all about pleasure and enjoying it. So who are you to say otherwise? And who is the government and lawmakers in saying we can't have fun because a few people desire to be successful? If there is no absolute authority here to make all the calls and say what is definitly right or wrong, there would be absolute choas. But thank God He does exists, and His morals are written in our hearts!

Madalyn O'Hair was a nutball and hardly representative of your average, run of the mill atheist.

Whatever!! Madalyn O'Hair was the only real atheist I've ever seen who not only talked the talked but walked the walk. She should be every atheists heroine for what she has done in reguards to discriminating religion from the public society. She is the definition of the word atheist.

Be careful looking at people like O'Hair and her ilk. As Christians are so fond of declaring after one of their own kills their children, or commits some other heinous crime, we should not judge an entire group based upon the actions of a few famous (or infamous) individuals.

This is totally different here. Comparing atheists to Madalyn O'Hair is like saying a Christian is like Christ; it's a compliment.

I am an atheist and am very happy. I have a successful marriage (25+ years) four wonderful adult children, a profitable business, etc. Why don't you judge atheism by someone like me? :think:

Zakath,
I said it before and I'll say it again; I'm not saying atheists don't live happy, prosperous lives. Well, on the outside anyways... Madalyn O'Hair had the same things; a wonderful family, profitable business and organization, a lot of support from her "supporters", etc.

It's not what you have or how you look on the outside or in the physical material world that counts; it will all fade away.. It's what and how you feel on the inside that matters. And when any human being disconnects themselves from the living, eternal love of God, they become a vaccuum of emptiness deep inside their souls. You know exactly how this feels.

Stop running Zakath, and give up. Sooner or later you'll have to face Him, whether it will be here, or on the other side....

 

[Lion]

POW! WHAM! SMACK!

POW! WHAM! SMACK!

Zak-Take his advice…NOW! That way you won’t get pummeled in the ring by Bob.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Z Man
Successfully? What's the purpose in that? He who dies with the most toys still dies. What good will being successfull do when death comes knockin' on your door?

Funny, I don't recall even the Christian faith teaching anything different than that. Does your sect teach that you won't die?

Besides, not everyone in life agrees with you on being successfull; some, like Skeptic, believe life's all about pleasure and enjoying it. So who are you to say otherwise?

I do not pretend to speak from any position of authority, telling others how to live their lives. (Unlike some people around here... ) I am merely speaking for myself.

And who is the government and lawmakers in saying we can't have fun because a few people desire to be successful? If there is no absolute authority here to make all the calls and say what is definitly right or wrong, there would be absolute choas.

Even governments' authority is not absolute, since they can rise and fall. However, since I choose to live in society, I must accept the rules of that society or be prepared to pay the consequences of not accepting those rules. That's life, there's no way that I've ever found around it...

But thank God He does exists, and His morals are written in our hearts!

That's the point of this thread - waiting for someone to prove that your version of "God" exists.

Whatever!! Madalyn O'Hair was the only real atheist I've ever seen who not only talked the talked but walked the walk. She should be every atheists heroine for what she has done in reguards to discriminating religion from the public society. She is the definition of the word atheist.

You're like one of those rabid anti-Catholics who picks some scuzzball pope from the middle ages as representative of all Catholics. Whatever floats your boat! I still think she was a fruitcake. :ha:

This is totally different here. Comparing atheists to Madalyn O'Hair is like saying a Christian is like Christ; it's a compliment.

Two problems with this...

Big Difference #1 - Atheists believe that O'Hair was human, Christians believe that Christ was a deity.

Big Difference #2 - Many atheists, myself included, think O'Hair was a nutjob. Few Christians would say that about their messiah.

I said it before and I'll say it again; I'm not saying atheists don't live happy, prosperous lives. Well, on the outside anyways...It's not what you have or how you look on the outside or in the physical material world that counts; it will all fade away.. It's what and how you feel on the inside that matters... And when any human being disconnects themselves from the living, eternal love of God, they become a vaccuum of emptiness deep inside their souls. You know exactly how this feels.

I am always intrigued by Christians who claim for themselves the power of the deity to "judge the hearts" of their fellow men. As nearly as I can see, that's either blashpemy or hubris of the highest order...

Stop running Zakath, and give up. Sooner or later you'll have to face Him, whether it will be here, or on the other side....

I'm not running. Haven't been for years. Been waiting here quietly and I've discovered - there's no deity there.

You'll find out the truth too, someday.

 

[Zakath]

Re: Shadowboxing with Shadowgov

Re: Shadowboxing with Shadowgov

Originally posted by Lion
Zak-Take his advice…NOW! That way you won’t get pummeled in the ring by Bob.

Shall I tremble now or later??? :crackup:

 

[shima]

>>If life's only purpose is to be enjoyed, as you say, then how can someone deny me that right to enjoy my life?<<

That is because you are NOT the only person to have that right. If you can enjoy your life without infringing on the rights of others, then by all means do. If however you have to deny the rights of other people in order to enjoy your life, then your right stops there.

 

[shima]

Well said Zakath.

Those Christians don't seem to get it. I'm as happy on the inside as I am on the outside. And I think I know what my owm emotions feel like much better than someone I meet on the internet and only talk to through some forum. Z man, you know nothing about me personally, and therefore you cannot judge what my emotions feel like. There's one person who can: ME.

I could tell you what my emotions feel like, but somehow I doubt you would believe me.

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Zakath
Funny, I don't recall even the Christian faith teaching anything different than that. Does your sect teach that you won't die?

Zakath, I know you use to be a pastor, but it must have been a long time ago, because every christian will tell you that yes, our flesh may die someday, but we will never die. Our spirit will remain forever...

Even governments' authority is not absolute, since they can rise and fall. However, since I choose to live in society,...

:crackup: I'm sorry, but this really did make me laugh where you said you choose to live in society. Haha! Where else would you live? In the woods with the animals? :ha:

...I must accept the rules of that society or be prepared to pay the consequences of not accepting those rules. That's life, there's no way that I've ever found around it...

You said, "I must accept", then you said, "there's no way around [societies rules]". This indicates that you really wish you didn't have to follow those rules. Funny, that's the same feeling throughout humanity. So how in the world do we maintain order and moral dicipline? On who's authority on making laws do we follow since human kind has a deep desire to do whatever pleases them, including the law makers? Our moral law can not come from man because of our desires to break them; they can only come from an absolute, which is God.

That's the point of this thread - waiting for someone to prove that your version of "God" exists.

I nor anyone else for that matter can ever prove to you about God's existence; that's something you'll have to find out for yourself. So stop asking. It's an in-valid question to ask Christians anyways; especially if you are asking to make them disbelieve. We've been bought already, and there's no way we're turning back. Our race has begun and we won't stop until we cross the finish line.

Big Difference #1 - Atheists believe that O'Hair was human, Christians believe that Christ was a deity.

We'll, given the fact that atheists disbelieve in any kind of deity whatsoever, what else would you believe O'Hair was? I mean, all you guys have to believe in is man; and trust me, all of us are nothing but big fruitcakes... :ha:

Big Difference #2 - Many atheists, myself included, think O'Hair was a nutjob. Few Christians would say that about their messiah.

I don't understand how you can call her a fruitcake when she was the leader of some kind of national atheists organization and she publically made happen what all atheists only dream about. Why do you belittle her for taking action in what she believed? Have you ever done anything about religion other than talk trash at debate sites, pestering Christians and others like a rash in a private area? If you are truely an atheist, you would hail Madalyn for what she has done...

I am always intrigued by Christians who claim for themselves the power of the deity to "judge the hearts" of their fellow men.

Zakath,
I'm definitly not judging your heart with the "power of the deity"; I'm judging your heart from a humans perspective. I have a heart just like you, and I know that to deny God's existence and love is to create an empty vaccuum in the heart that only brings loneliness and strife to that individual. Only God can fill that hole in your heart. You may have it filled right now with family, success, your career, and other material things; but they won't last. Then that hole will just be empty again. Then what?

You need a foundation, and that foundation would be the Rock; our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. :thumb:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by shima
>>If life's only purpose is to be enjoyed, as you say, then how can someone deny me that right to enjoy my life?<<

That is because you are NOT the only person to have that right. If you can enjoy your life without infringing on the rights of others, then by all means do. If however you have to deny the rights of other people in order to enjoy your life, then your right stops there.

That's an incorrect way to look at it. There isn't one person in this world who wouldn't love to infringe on someone else's rights sometime or another in thier life; that includes the people who make the laws. But what is it that keeps us from doing that? It's not human law.....

Those Christians don't seem to get it. I'm as happy on the inside as I am on the outside. And I think I know what my owm emotions feel like much better than someone I meet on the internet and only talk to through some forum. Z man, you know nothing about me personally, and therefore you cannot judge what my emotions feel like. There's one person who can: ME.

Shima,
the reason I can judge your inside emotions is because I'm human just like you.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Z Man
Zakath, I know you use to be a pastor, but it must have been a long time ago, because every christian will tell you that yes, our flesh may die someday, but we will never die. Our spirit will remain forever...

I am speaking in concrete terms here, Z Man, not in supernaturalism. There's a lady down the street that claims to talk to spirits too. Should I ask her advice?

:crackup: I'm sorry, but this really did make me laugh where you said you choose to live in society. Haha! Where else would you live? In the woods with the animals?

Do try to think beyond the confines of your comfy suburbanite world for at least a moment. :think:

I'm not suggesting that you do anything of the kind, but can you agree that it is still possible for people to live away from society, if they so choose?

You said, "I must accept", then you said, "there's no way around [societies rules]". This indicates that you really wish you didn't have to follow those rules.

No I was speaking within the construct of social contract theory. If an individual chooses to live in a society they must accept the rules of that society or pay for violating them. It's really a simple concept, I don't see why you're trying to read so much into a brief statement. Unless, of course, you're merely disguising the fact that you've nothing concrete to add to the topic and are just maundering on...

Funny, that's the same feeling throughout humanity. So how in the world do we maintain order and moral dicipline? On who's authority on making laws do we follow since human kind has a deep desire to do whatever pleases them, including the law makers?

You really do not believe that societies are self-regulating?

Perhaps you'll understand better with a simple example. Let's look at a society that should be very dependent on the "rules" or "laws" of your alleged deity, your local Christian church. When a member of that organization is caught with his/her hand in the till, stealing from the church accounts, what happens to him/her?

I nor anyone else for that matter can ever prove to you about God's existence; that's something you'll have to find out for yourself. So stop asking.

Quit prattling on about absolutes you are unwilling to prove and I'll quit asking for you to prove them.

It's an in-valid question to ask Christians anyways; especially if you are asking to make them disbelieve. We've been bought already, and there's no way we're turning back. Our race has begun and we won't stop until we cross the finish line.

Spare me the slavery and footracing metaphors. If you post here, I'll ask questions. They are not invalid, what is invalid is evading the answers...

We'll, given the fact that atheists disbelieve in any kind of deity whatsoever, what else would you believe O'Hair was? I mean, all you guys have to believe in is man; and trust me, all of us are nothing but big fruitcakes...

... sounds like a Jimmy Buffett song to me...

I don't understand how you can call her a fruitcake when she was... snipped kudos for O'Hair...

Because I disagree with her politics (communism), her economics (socialism), and the deceit and fraudulent accounting she and her family used to take money from the American Atheists (of which I am not a member.) I have the same distaste for people like her that I do for people like Pat Robertson and Jim Bakker. :vomit:

Why do you belittle her for taking action in what she believed? Have you ever done anything about religion other than talk trash at debate sites, pestering Christians and others like a rash in a private area? If you are truely an atheist, you would hail Madalyn for what she has done...

Another "No True Scotsman" fallacy. It would appear to me, laddie, that you are the one doing all the lauding of the atheist, not me. :think:

I'm definitly not judging your heart with the "power of the deity"; I'm judging your heart from a humans perspective.

In that case, permit to assure you that due to your fallible human nature you've judged incorrectly.

I have a heart just like you, and I know that to deny God's existence and love is to create an empty vaccuum in the heart that only brings loneliness and strife to that individual.

You are merely projecting your own lack and weakness onto others. Trust me when I tell you that it is not a very effective apologetic or evangelistic tool. :nono:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Zakath
I am speaking in concrete terms here, Z Man, not in supernaturalism. There's a lady down the street that claims to talk to spirits too. Should I ask her advice?

I don't care; do want you want to. It's a free country. (BTW, today's the day we celebrate that costly price of freedom, so Happy Memorial Day! Well, I don't know if you can call it happy... well, just have a good Memorial Day!)

Do try to think beyond the confines of your comfy suburbanite world for at least a moment. :think:

I'm not suggesting that you do anything of the kind, but can you agree that it is still possible for people to live away from society, if they so choose?

What do you mean; like a hermit?

No I was speaking within the construct of social contract theory. If an individual chooses to live in a society they must accept the rules of that society or pay for violating them. It's really a simple concept, I don't see why you're trying to read so much into a brief statement. Unless, of course, you're merely disguising the fact that you've nothing concrete to add to the topic and are just maundering on...

You said it again; "If an individual chooses to live in a society they must accept the rules...". Any individual has a desire to have fun and take their pleasures in "sin" that this world so gladly offers. Even the lawmakers do this. How can a society, who are all acceptable to failure and selfishness and pleasure for themselves ever come to an agreement on a set of laws and morality? I'll tell you why: because we all have it written in our hearts. There is an absolute that we all must answer to in our own conciousness. If God did not exists, life would be one big spring break of choatic unmorality. But because He exists, we are restrained. And it's not because man tells me to not do those things (because everyone desires to unleash and have fun and seek pleasures for themselves), but it's because God has said not to do those things. His moral code is absolute, unwaivering, and unchangeable.

You really do not believe that societies are self-regulating?

They can't be; those who try to regulate it would only be hypocrites...

Quit prattling on about absolutes you are unwilling to prove and I'll quit asking for you to prove them.

Blah blah blah....

Spare me the slavery and footracing metaphors. If you post here, I'll ask questions. They are not invalid, what is invalid is evading the answers...

More blah blah blah... :shut:

... sounds like a Jimmy Buffett song to me...

My case in point; we're all fruitcakes!

In that case, permit to assure you that due to your fallible human nature you've judged incorrectly.

You are merely projecting your own lack and weakness onto others. Trust me when I tell you that it is not a very effective apologetic or evangelistic tool. :nono:

It is not just my lack or weakness Zakath. You should know this; you're a psychyotrist (SP ?). Love is humanities number one weakness. It's what we all live for. I know what it's like to deprive one self of God's love because I'm human.

Put someone in solitude all by themselves for a very long time and see what happens. When a death happens to a loved one, how does it make one feel? Take love away from someone, and it "kills" them to bear; take God's love away and watch their spirit die.

 

[Lion]

Even the buildings are shaking!

Even the buildings are shaking!

Originally posted by Lion
Zak-Take his advice…NOW! That way you won’t get pummeled in the ring by Bob.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zakath answered-Shall I tremble now or later???

Well… with the workout program you’ve started, maybe it will be Bob that should tremble.

He has been putting on a few pounds.

 

[Lion]

Awesome!

Awesome!

Z-Man-Great post!

 

[Kuuntz]

Blah blah blah....

More blah blah blah... :shut:



Could you act anymore childish Z-man?


What do you mean; like a hermit?

Yes Like a hermit if thats what you wish to call it. Or like my people who still live there native am. ways, in the woods with the animals.They do not want to live by the usas laws so they took to parts of the state the gov. doesn't care about. You seem to think it can't be done, But it can. we all choose to live in society but we don't have to. It's a choice.

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Kuuntz
Blah blah blah....

More blah blah blah... :shut:



Could you act anymore childish Z-man?


What do you mean; like a hermit?

Yes Like a hermit if thats what you wish to call it. Or like my people who still live there native am. ways, in the woods with the animals.They do not want to live by the usas laws so they took to parts of the state the gov. doesn't care about. You seem to think it can't be done, But it can. we all choose to live in society but we don't have to. It's a choice.

Ok Kuuntz, you're obviously new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack....

Kuuntz sees me running towards him.....:shocked: I tackle him to the floor and :box: , then I jump off my couch and elbow drop him like this, :jump: . So, how you feeling Kuuntz? .... BTW, welcome to TOL!!!

One more thing, you're post really sucks. It's lacking substance; not enough information or something......It's really skimpy. Why don't you go play with the other little kids we got running around here, a.k.a. Wickwoman, Skeptic, Mr. Bean...... :ha:

(Is this childish enough for ya? )