The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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JudgeRightly

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Neither sun light nor moon light do what Venus does.

Correct, and that's because the sun and the moon are the largest objects in our sky. Venus, however, is just a pinprick of light, in comparison, and therefore is much more prone, like all the celestial bodies we see, to atmospheric effects.

There are different filters used in some of the videos that show just how intricate this movement of light is.

Examine them and Judge for your self, no pun intended.

I don't have the time to watch the videos, Dave. Sorry.

One can put there faith in Hubble computer enhanced imaging, but some of us would rather not.

--Dave

By computer enhanced imaging, do you mean photoshop? Or do you actually mean enhancements such as smoothing out edges/borders of objects in the already existing image?
 

DFT_Dave

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Correct, and that's because the sun and the moon are the largest objects in our sky. Venus, however, is just a pinprick of light, in comparison, and therefore is much more prone, like all the celestial bodies we see, to atmospheric effects.

I don't have the time to watch the videos, Dave. Sorry.

By computer enhanced imaging, do you mean photoshop? Or do you actually mean enhancements such as smoothing out edges/borders of objects in the already existing image?

With out seeing the evidence from the other side you have not entered this debate.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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With out seeing the evidence from the other side you have not entered this debate.

--Dave

I looked at the page you linked that had all the videos. Almost every thumbnail had an out of focus photo of Venus. The ones that didn't you could clearly see that it was in one of its phases, crescent or gibbous, but never full, and never new.

I've seen enough to know that if there is any shimmering/wavering in the video recordings, it is due to atmospheric interference, and that any out of focus images are due either to incompetence with a camera or willful deception. Also, if the images are clear and focused, they clearly show a spherical object in the sky.
 

DFT_Dave

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I looked at the page you linked that had all the videos. Almost every thumbnail had an out of focus photo of Venus. The ones that didn't you could clearly see that it was in one of its phases, crescent or gibbous, but never full, and never new.

I've seen enough to know that if there is any shimmering/wavering in the video recordings, it is due to atmospheric interference, and that any out of focus images are due either to incompetence with a camera or willful deception. Also, if the images are clear and focused, they clearly show a spherical object in the sky.

All full magnification of the stars with the P900 show movement of light and movement causes blurring.

The only solid and clear view is from video with very little magnification and a very small object.

--Dave
 

Jonahdog

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With out seeing the evidence from the other side you have not entered this debate.

--Dave
In other words, unless you pour enough brain rotting nonsense into your skull your ability to agree with Dave is limited. Let's hope it stays that way.
TOL is chock full of silly threads---disputing evolution, fretting over same sex marriage, or my personal favorite----several people arguing over whether their particular read of the Bible saves them and damns others---but in terms of waste of electrons, this thread takes the cake.
 

Clete

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Motion is the antithesis of no motion, without "that which does not move" there is no understanding of that which does move.
I don't think you can define something in terms of its negation.

Saying everything is moving, which is what it seems you are inferring, is no different than saying everything is God.
You don't get to make such assertions without making the argument. This naked assertion rings in my mind as one of the dumbest things I've ever read!

Let's just think this through for a second. If saying that everything moves is equivalent to saying that everything is God then anything that moves is equivalent to God which is equivalent to saying that motion is that which makes something divine and therefore motion is God because the only thing that can make anything divine is God Himself.

What fool told you that and why did you believe it?

First of all, I didn't say, nor did I even suggest or imply, that everything moves.

And more importantly, motion - of anything - does not imply divinity.

Maybe you should read my post again and simply take it to mean what it actually says.

Cosmological relativism is no different than and is as irrational as moral or reality relativism.
Saying it doesn't make it so, David!

And no one even suggested "Cosmological Relativism" anyway - whatever the Hell that is.

The Word of God says the sun stood still, the word of God is true or it's not. Seems you've become liberal in your theology in order to accommodate globe cosmology.

--Dave
David, if you ever make a single other statement anything similar to this stupidity you'll find yourself permanently on my ignore list and that will be the end of any conversations we might ever have had on this web site. I am not kidding. Do not test me on this if you want to ever speak to me again.

Statements in the Bible that are not literally true...

Matthew 19:24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Metaphor/hyperbole)

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. (Generalization - common throughout Proverbs)

Matthew 3:5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. (Hyperbole)

1 Cor. 4:8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have become kings - and that without us! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you! (Sarcasm)​

That's four examples, that I spent maybe ten minutes collecting. I could have listed forty or probably four hundred.

Further, as I stated in my last post, it was true, the Sun did stand still. In every way that matters within the context of that passage, including God's purpose for causing the event, it did, in fact, stand still. It is not necessary for the test to add the words "in the sky" for us to understand that that is the point being made because the Sun's motion in the sky is the only motion that anyone who was witness to the event would have understood existed. Thus the statement is entirely a true statement. Context is everything.

If your woodenly literal approach to this passage where at all valid, you would have to hold that not just the Sun and Moon move around the Earth once a day but that the entire Galaxy, indeed the whole of the Universe does the same.

Clete
 

Clete

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Comparing the two videos

The good news is we have an agreement as to what Venus looks like when we zoom to the full magnification of the Nikon P900.

View attachment 25851

The argument is made that the image is out of focus.

But my argument is the most interesting thing about all P900 videos of Venus is that the light is not constant. The light from Venus is fluctuating or vibrating.

One would not expect the light to be doing this if it were a solid orb that is reflecting the light of the sun in the same way that the moon and earth does and therefore Venus is not a solid orb reflecting the light from the sun. Venus, as all stars are, is a vibrating self illuminating light.

Venus from Nikon P900
I think one needs to see as many videos from different sources in order to validate any argument, go to link.

I would would also argue that it's this very fact of movement of light that is the reason for the lack of a sharp clear image that seems a bit out of focus.

Next I would argue that the video that attempts to demonstrate that the image of a vibrating Venus is merely an illusion of an out of focused image merely zooms back to a small magnification and is not really focusing at all.

With this clear logic I'm sure you will all humbly submit to the truth of flat earth cosmology, or maybe not.

--Dave :cool:


Okay! That's it.

I'm done with this stupidity.

All I've done by giving this thread the time of day was to cement you into the most mindless idiotic nonsense imaginable. You ARE stupid if you believe one single word of the above quoted post makes even the tiniest bit of sense and your are, therefore, not worth my time.

Believe whatever the Hell you want. You're clearly going to anyway. Just do it without my participation in debating it like its something reasonable to even consider, nevermind debate.

Good bye!

Clete
 

Caino

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Okay! That's it.

I'm done with this stupidity.

All I've done by giving this thread the time of day was to cement you into the most mindless idiotic nonsense imaginable. You ARE stupid if you believe one single word of the above quoted post makes even the tiniest bit of sense and your are, therefore, not worth my time.

Believe whatever the Hell you want. You're clearly going to anyway. Just do it without my participation in debating it like its something reasonable to even consider, nevermind debate.

Good bye!

Clete
The way of the fool seems right to him.
 

RevTestament

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That's why we examine as many videos as possible to see if what ever explanation we have can be tested. Neither sun light nor moon light do what Venus does. There are different filters used in some of the videos that show just how intricate this movement of light is.

Examine them and Judge for your self, no pun intended.

One can put there faith in Hubble computer enhanced imaging, but some of us would rather not.

--Dave

Honestly Dave.
Why are you doing this?
There are several reasons Venus "shimmers." First, the light is being reflected from an uneven cloudy atmosphere, which causes the light to experience dispersion. Next, it is coming through the atmosphere of the earth which causes further dispersion.

Are we seriously still on the earth is flat premise? That is easily solved. Why did sailors of old climb the mast of their ships? To spot land. They could see land and other obstacles before people on the deck. WHY? Because the earth is round. I have been in a boat and watched the shore disappear below the horizon. But if I climbed a mast I would be able to see the shore. WHY? Because the earth is spheroid.
Seriously - you need to call a relative on the other side of the world - maybe in Europe, and ask if their sun has set. It cannot set on one side of a flat world and shine on the other, unless there is some "edge." The earth has no such "edge" because it is a spheroid. Its only edge is its spheroid surface. This is easily demonstrated with a flashlight and a basketball. Your model cannot be demonstrated because it is bogus.
 

Derf

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"So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day."

Why doesn't the Bible say the earth stood still?

--Dave
Why does the bible say the sun rises and sets? If you discard the globe earth because of the Joshua passage, you must discard any flat earth model that doesn't have a RISING and SETTING sun.

Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

Nathon Detroit

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Dave I have two questions that I have very patiently awaited a direct answer to. Could you be so kind as to respond to these?

QUESTION 1: Last weekend I was up in Northern Colorado and I looked due east as the moon came up over the horizon. It was HUGE!! I mean... the moon looked MASSIVE as it crept up over the horizon. In fact it looked bigger when it came over the horizon than it looked when it was directly overhead.

Dave, why wasn't the moon really tiny as it came up over the horizon like you claim it should be? Why was the moon just as big as it came over the horizon as it is when it's directly overhead??

QUESTION 2:
Sun Sets IN the Clouds


In the video you have linked to the narrator states.... "The sun obviously and clearly sets into the clouds."

Also you yourself titled the post... "Sun Sets IN the Clouds" therefore insinuating the sun is setting into the clouds.

So what is happening here?

Is the sun dropping in altitude through the clouds? (i.e., setting)

Or are you asserting the clouds are rising up over the sun?

It has to be one or the other.
 

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Nick M

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With out seeing the evidence from the other side you have not entered this debate.

--Dave

This is what the atheists say when they claim....4.....12...20 billion years. When we know without question it is 6 days.
 
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