The earth is flat and we never went to the moon
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The Berean
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How is this proof? It shows the Earth with curvature. It's obviously fake, no? :think:
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The Berean
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More nonsense, Dave. Geosynchronous satellites orbit the Earth at over 23,000 miles above the Earth's suface. The ISS orbits at about 250 miles above the Earth's suface. You really expect to see geosynchronous satellites from the ISS with the naked eye? :doh:
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Then how do we know they are up there? The ISS captures a lot of space. And there are no high powered cameras on the ISS?
--Dave
We know they're there because people like Rocketman and TheBerean here helped put them there
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The Berean
Well-known member
ISS captures only the space that near the ISS. The orbital space around the Earth is HUGE, especially geosynchronous orbit. When know the geosynchronous satellites are there because every satellite is tracked by a ground station 24/7. The ground stations send commands to the satellites and the satellites send telemetry to the ground stations. The ground station antennas are calibrated to send signals to a 23,000 mile orbit.
If you want to see satellites near the ISS here is a video showing satellites (Planet Labs' Dove satellites) being launched from the ISS.
Tracking satellites --Link
Seems there are a number of satellites not in high orbit that the ISS should be able to see.
--Dave
The Berean
Well-known member
You mean like these satellites?
You do realize that no satellite is allowed to get close to the ISS because a collision can severely damage the ISS and potentially kill any persons onboard the ISS?
The Berean
Well-known member
A company called Virgin Galactic is working on a spacecraft for space tourism. They are currently performing tests on tehir SpaceShipTwo. He is a powered flight and you can CLEARLY see the curvature of the Earth. Mind you, Virgin Galactic is a wholly private company with no connection to NASA.
It's been a while since I've heard that name lol
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My point about space and NASA is that there is contradiction every where. All these vast views of space above earth and no low orbiting satellites to be seen from all that live video.
It's contradictions in testimony and arguments that make us doubt what we are being told is true.
The thermosphere is extremely hot and very close to the Van Allen radiation belts, a tough place for satellites to exist. The ionosphere is said to propagate radio waves. Some one once said that radio waves bounce of the ionosphere which maybe be the source of our GPS, etc. I admit this is not my expertise. But I am researching this.
--Dave
There is no curvature there. It's a flat horizon and notice there is absolutely no movement of the earth below. The circle of the earth is a flat plain, curvature means, especially from high altitude, the earth would curve dramatically away from you at 8 in per mile squared.
--Dave
I don't think you're comprehending just how far away from the ground they are, nor the distances from plane to horizon
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You are wrong Dave.
Even at that relatively low altitude you can see the curvature of the earth.
In my attachment the green line is flat. The pink link is directly placed on the earth's surface.
bluetriangle4
New member
Whether this is a wind-up or not, it does serve a good purpose, in that it forces us to consider why it is we believe the Earth to be a sphere (technically, an oblate spheroid). We believe not through direct observation or scientific study but because 'experts' have told us so. This is exactly why people in the Middle Ages believed the Earth to be flat. There is very little direct evidence in our daily lives for a round Earth. The best piece of evidence is probably the observation that the horizon is curved from the vantage point of an airplane or a very high mountain. Two others that occur to me are
1) the observation that the sun's highest point lowers when one travels a great distance north or south from the equator, from which one can infer that the surface of the Earth is curved, at least in a north-south direction.
2) the observation that water draining from a sink flows in a clockwise direction north of the equator and in an anticlockwise direction south of the equator. At the equator itself water drains away without circling. One doesn't have to travel very far from the equator to discover this, so it is easier than hiking for many miles in each direction. But it does require some understanding of geophysics.
For people living in the Middle Ages, few of whom knew much science or could afford the luxury of travel, it was quite difficult to prove the Earth was round or even question that it was flat. Nowadays we are lucky enough to be able to afford the travel and/or the education to discover for ourselves whether the Earth is flat or a sphere. So there really is no excuse for someone to question the shape of the Earth. If you really are convinced by the flat-earth argument, you should check for yourself by one of the methods outlined above, or one of the many others that exist, before trying to convince others on a forum.
It does raise a wider question though about how we know we know things. For the most part we rely on authorities of various kinds to keep us informed. However, given the debates currently raging on climate change, fake news and the controversies that have always existed in the scientific and religious and philosophical communities, we should be aware that most of what we hold to be true is second-hand knowledge, often false, biased or incomplete and apt to change over time.
1) the observation that the sun's highest point lowers when one travels a great distance north or south from the equator, from which one can infer that the surface of the Earth is curved, at least in a north-south direction.
2) the observation that water draining from a sink flows in a clockwise direction north of the equator and in an anticlockwise direction south of the equator. At the equator itself water drains away without circling. One doesn't have to travel very far from the equator to discover this, so it is easier than hiking for many miles in each direction. But it does require some understanding of geophysics.
For people living in the Middle Ages, few of whom knew much science or could afford the luxury of travel, it was quite difficult to prove the Earth was round or even question that it was flat. Nowadays we are lucky enough to be able to afford the travel and/or the education to discover for ourselves whether the Earth is flat or a sphere. So there really is no excuse for someone to question the shape of the Earth. If you really are convinced by the flat-earth argument, you should check for yourself by one of the methods outlined above, or one of the many others that exist, before trying to convince others on a forum.
It does raise a wider question though about how we know we know things. For the most part we rely on authorities of various kinds to keep us informed. However, given the debates currently raging on climate change, fake news and the controversies that have always existed in the scientific and religious and philosophical communities, we should be aware that most of what we hold to be true is second-hand knowledge, often false, biased or incomplete and apt to change over time.
The Berean
Well-known member
Dave,
Earlier I posted a video showing satellites viewed FROM the ISS. They are off in the distance necessarily because having satellites approach the ISS is dangerous. I also posted video of cubesats being launched from the ISS as well.
On a side note I do not work for NASA and I have never worked for NASA. Every satellite I have ever designed, built, and launched have all been for commercial customers.
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I haven't dismissed anything with providing an argument that supports that dismissal.
Additionally, there is no rational questioning of how trigonometry works in regards to finding the relative lengths of two sides of a right triangle. There is no way around the fact, the observable, provable, scientific fact that the Sun IS way way way too many time further away than the Moon is for the flat earth model to work. The crude angle measurements shown in the video that presented the argument were off by a little more than one degree and even that gave a result that the flat earth model couldn't handle. The reality of the matter is far far worse for the flat earthers. The real angle is closer to 89.85°, which puts the Moon nearly 380 times closer to the earth than the Sun. Notice also that the angle is very nearly 90° making the light hitting the Moon almost exactly parallel to the light hitting the Earth. Imagine that!
ADDITIONALLY....
The relative distances to the Moon and Sun just so happen to also be PRECISELY in keeping with the distances determined by Newton's Universal Gravitation calculations that have nothing at all to do with right triangles but that was derived from real world observations and measurements and logically sound extrapolations of the information learned from those observations to the rest of the world around us. That's called independent verification, David. That's how science works. That's how real actual observational science works.
Clete
We saw one streak in at Kwaj once. I think it was planned that way for retrieval. I'm not sure, cause no need to know.
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