The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Okay, because I know Dave will never do it. I've taken it upon myself to do what I suggested he do in my last post.

Here goes nothin'....

Everyone go to the 10:00 minute mark on the video that Dave posted in post #2842

There you will see a mountain looming above the city of Santa Monica, CA.

I've spent some time trying to figure out just which buildings we are seeing in the video and I'm almost completely certain that basically centered in the video is the Santa Monica Pier. The two twin towers on the left side of the screen is the Pacific Plaza, which is an apartment building and the dark looking building (it isn't really dark, remember this is infrared) just left of the center of the image is a building called Le Meridien Delfina Santa Monica.

Here's a pic of a near recreation of the videos image of the city that I created on Google Earth.

View attachment 26618

So, the Pacific Plaza apartment building is 179.81ft tall. (Source)

The video claims to be at 34.032204 n, 118.702984 w, which lines up perfectly with what I see on Google Earth.

The distance from that location and the southern tower of the Pacific Plaza apartment building is 11.9 miles.

That distance is plausible also because the camera is not at sea level and neither is that building. They are both elevated. The camera is about 150 ft above sea level and the street level at the building is about 75ft. Also, the camera position is likely not precisely at those coordinates. Chances are it's up on the concrete at the top of that hill it's on, which would put the camera at 200ft above sea level. None of which really matters but I just wanted to point out as many details as possible.

So, the angular size of a 179.81 ft object from 11.9 miles away, would be 0.16397°

As I have already calculated, Mt. San Jacinto would be almost exactly 1° in angular size.

1 / 0.16397 = 6.09

Does the Pacific Plaza building look to be 1/6th the size of the mountain?

NO!

It looks like the mountain is just over three times as big as the building in terms of angular size. (That's based on the apparent size of the building in the video, not on the ridiculous scale that the videographer puts on the video which seems to be arbitrarily set at the beaches edge rather than at anything that looks like a horizon.)

So the relative sizes of the buildings in the foreground vs. the size of that mountain is off by a factor of two.

If that were a real image of the mountain from that distance on a flat Earth, then in order for those buildings to be the apparent size that they are, they would be located about 8.5 miles away.
(That's a rough number because I don't have the precise angular size of the building. Using the scale on the video @ 10:30, the building appears to be approximately 4 mrads in angular size which converts to .229° which is the number I used to calculate that distance.)

All of that is assuming a flat Earth and the video's own claims about what is being seen and from where!

And, once again, math proves the video a fake. As if anyone with a brain needed proof.

Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber

The effect of using a telephoto lens.

--Dave

Exactly. See how the foreground is just black. That's because there is no way to properly expose both the foreground and the Moon. If the foreground isn't underexposed, the Moon will be over exposed.

That's how you can know that the photo you posted with the clearly seen mountain in the foreground was a composite.

I've taken dozens of photos of the Moon with my own equipment and I know precisely what I'm talking about.


Incidentally, how come the Moon doesn't shrink into the distance? Or shrink at all, for that matter? There's half an hour's worth of travel time of the Moon supposedly getting further and further away on your flat Earth. Why no perspective shrinkage?

Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Incidentally, Mt. San Jacinto is visible just above the horizon in the Google Earth image I posted.

Here it is again, with a red circle around the peak of the mountain that this idiot claims to be videoing in infrared...

View attachment 26619
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Okay, because I know Dave will never do it. I've taken it upon myself to do what I suggested he do in my last post.

Here goes nothin'....

Everyone go to the 10:00 minute mark on the video that Dave posted in post #2842

There you will see a mountain looming above the city of Santa Monica, CA.

I've spent some time trying to figure out just which buildings we are seeing in the video and I'm almost completely certain that basically centered in the video is the Santa Monica Pier. The two twin towers on the left side of the screen is the Pacific Plaza, which is an apartment building and the dark looking building (it isn't really dark, remember this is infrared) just left of the center of the image is a building called Le Meridien Delfina Santa Monica.

Here's a pic of a near recreation of the videos image of the city that I created on Google Earth.

View attachment 26618

So, the Pacific Plaza apartment building is 179.81ft tall. (Source)

The video claims to be at 34.032204 n, 118.702984 w, which lines up perfectly with what I see on Google Earth.

The distance from that location and the southern tower of the Pacific Plaza apartment building is 11.9 miles.

That distance is plausible also because the camera is not at sea level and neither is that building. They are both elevated. The camera is about 150 ft above sea level and the street level at the building is about 75ft. Also, the camera position is likely not precisely at those coordinates. Chances are it's up on the concrete at the top of that hill it's on, which would put the camera at 200ft above sea level. None of which really matters but I just wanted to point out as many details as possible.

So, the angular size of a 179.81 ft object from 11.9 miles away, would be 0.16397°

As I have already calculated, Mt. San Jacinto would be almost exactly 1° in angular size.

1 / 0.16397 = 6.09

Does the Pacific Plaza building look to be 1/6th the size of the mountain?

NO!

It looks like the mountain is just over three times as big as the building in terms of angular size. (That's based on the apparent size of the building in the video, not on the ridiculous scale that the videographer puts on the video which seems to be arbitrarily set at the beaches edge rather than at anything that looks like a horizon.)

So the relative sizes of the buildings in the foreground vs. the size of that mountain is off by a factor of two.

If that were a real image of the mountain from that distance on a flat Earth, then in order for those buildings to be the apparent size that they are, they would be located about 8.5 miles away.
(That's a rough number because I don't have the precise angular size of the building. Using the scale on the video @ 10:30, the building appears to be approximately 4 mrads in angular size which converts to .229° which is the number I used to calculate that distance.)

All of that is assuming a flat Earth and the video's own claims about what is being seen and from where!

And, once again, math proves the video a fake. As if anyone with a brain needed proof.

Clete

I like that you finally viewed a video and made an analysis.

I am not an expert on photography. Most of us aren't.

I'm going to send your comments to the person who made the video and to a few others to see how they answer your objections.

I will look over more photos to see if others have similar photos to compare with.

The moon shot is made when it's still fairly dark outside which is why the foreground is dark. The cityscape was made when it was very bright outside which is why the foreground is not as dark, I would think.

The moon shot is over an elevated land mass and the horizon line is still a distance away which is obviously why it sets bottom first. The photographer is zooming in on the moon as it sets so we cannot tell from this video if it changes size or not.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Is it even a possibility in your mind that God created in 6 days a globe orbiting a star in an entire universe of stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc?

Because You keep confusing the idea that the earth is a globe with "cosmological evolution."

THEY'RE NOT THE SAME THING! Please stop conflating them.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

God created the earth then light, sun and moon. The Spirit "moved" over the waters. We don't get a picture of a spinning globe orbiting the sun now do we?

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Congrats, you can quote scripture. Now answer my question.

God created the earth then light, sun and moon. The Spirit "moved" over the waters. We don't get a picture of a spinning globe orbiting the sun now do we?

--Dave

Which has nothing to do with my question now, does it?

Dave: Is it even a possibility in your mind that God created in 6 days a globe orbiting a star in an entire universe of stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I like that you finally viewed a video and made an analysis.
This is not the first time I've done so. When I wasted my time doing it before, it was like shooting spit balls at a battleship when it came to convincing you of anything. This post of yours is just proof, once again, that you're lying to all of us and have no interest at all in being convinced about anything.

I am not an expert on photography. Most of us aren't.
There's no need to be an expert, David. Just look it up.

I'm going to send your comments to the person who made the video and to a few others to see how they answer your objections.
They aren't objections. They're arguments. Arguments that prove that the video is fake. Arguments that you don't even need in order to know that the video is a fake. Common sense tells you that the video is fake because otherwise you'd have to believe that this idiot is the first person to have ever bothered to take an infrared camera outside.

Why not just accept the verdict of sound reason, David?

Why are you torturing us all with this infrared mountain of stupidity?

I will look over more photos to see if others have similar photos to compare with.
Similar photos of what, infrared images of mountains?

The moon shot is made when it's still fairly dark outside which is why the foreground is dark.
I don't care what time it was. If you photograph the full or nearly full Moon behind anything, whatever is in the foreground is going to be underexposed or else the Moon will be overexposed.

THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY FOR ANYTHING ELSE TO HAPPEN!!!

Go look it up, David. Stop trying to just make up some excuse. Go to any website about photographing the night sky and learn how to take photos of the Moon.

How to Photograph the Moon (See point 6. How to take a picture of the moon with a foreground object?)

How do you photograph the Moon?
"Cameras, whether digital or film, can't cope nearly as well [as the human eye]. They'll either expose the moon properly and turn everything else black, or they'll expose the darker areas and leave the moon as a big bright spot in the sky. Since most of the scene is dark, they'll usually choose the latter, and you'll end up with an over-exposed white blob."

The cityscape was made when it was very bright outside which is why the foreground is not as dark, I would think.
What cityscape? I'm talking about the silhouetted trees in front of the Moon.

The moon shot is over an elevated land mass and the horizon line is still a distance away which is obviously why it sets bottom first.
You're a liar, David. There's no way you actually think that the Moon does not set bottom first every single time it sets no matter how high the horizon line happens to be. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

The photographer is zooming in on the moon as it sets so we cannot tell from this video if it changes size or not.
--Dave
Two intentional lies in a row. It took me ten seconds to figure out that the video is fully zoomed in at 1:38 so you've got three and half minutes of that video where no zooming takes place at all and that Moon does not change in apparent size at all.

You're a liar who bought the lies of fools and you refuse to accept both the plainly obvious and the verdict of sound reason which makes you the fool. I'd be so embarrassed that I couldn't breathe if I were you.

Clete
 
Last edited:

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Congrats, you can quote scripture. Now answer my question.



Which has nothing to do with my question now, does it?

Dave: Is it even a possibility in your mind that God created in 6 days a globe orbiting a star in an entire universe of stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc?

Anything is possible for God, so why ask?

Not everything is possible if you take Genesis literally.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
This is not the first time I've done so. When I wasted my time doing it before, it was like shooting spit balls at a battleship when it came to convincing you of anything. This post of yours is just proof, once again, that you're lying to all of us and have no interest at all in being convinced about anything.

There's no need to be an expert, David. Just look it up.

They aren't objections. They're arguments. Arguments that prove that the video is fake. Arguments that you don't even need in order to know that the video is a fake. Common sense tells you that the video is fake because otherwise you'd have to believe that this idiot is the first person to have ever bothered to take an infrared camera outside.

Why not just accept the verdict of sound reason, David?

Why are you torturing us all with this infrared mountain of stupidity?

Similar photos of what, infrared images of mountains?

I don't care what time it was. If you photograph the full or nearly full Moon behind anything, whatever is in the foreground is going to be underexposed or else the Moon will be overexposed.

THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY FOR ANYTHING ELSE TO HAPPEN!!!

Go look it up, David. Stop trying to just make up some excuse. Go to any website about photographing the night sky and learn how to take photos of the Moon.

How to Photograph the Moon (See point 6. How to take a picture of the moon with a foreground object?)

How do you photograph the Moon?
"Cameras, whether digital or film, can't cope nearly as well [as the human eye]. They'll either expose the moon properly and turn everything else black, or they'll expose the darker areas and leave the moon as a big bright spot in the sky. Since most of the scene is dark, they'll usually choose the latter, and you'll end up with an over-exposed white blob."

What cityscape? I'm talking about the silhouetted trees in front of the Moon.

You're a liar, David. There's no way you actually think that the Moon does not set bottom first every single time it sets no matter how high the horizon line happens to be. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Two intentional lies in a row. It took me ten seconds to figure out that the video is fully zoomed in at 1:38 so you've got three and half minutes of that video where no zooming takes place at all and that Moon does not change in apparent size at all.

You're a liar who bought the lies of fools and you refuse to accept both the plainly obvious and the verdict of sound reason which makes you the fool. I'd be so embarrassed that I couldn't breathe if I were you.

Clete

If we want to debate well we have to study the side we oppose.

I read the sites on photographing the moon, thanks.

--Dave
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

God created the earth then light, sun and moon. The Spirit "moved" over the waters. We don't get a picture of a spinning globe orbiting the sun now do we?

--Dave

It does not say planet Earth, it means ground, or land, which can mean matter, as opposed to space. God was not giving a physics lesson.
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Perspective is completely ignored alone with most of the videos.
I've been discussing perspective, but you have completely ignored the conversation.

You have to prove that the evidence for flat earth is wrong, not with jokes or name calling. Clete has made a good rebuttal of the last pic I posted and in the morning I will see if I can defend the photos or not.

--Dave
The evidence is generally not wrong. But the interpretation of the evidence in support of the FE has been shown to be wrong repeatedly.

Take your picture of the sun is shown as two different sizes. But that just isn't true. http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26613&d=1533050975

So you tell us... does that sun (or moon) continue to get smaller as it gets closer to the mountains in the picture? What is its size supposed to be according to your drawing just before it reaches the mountains?
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
God was not giving a physics lesson.

These forms of comment are unhelpful. Genesis is historical narrative. The physics of creation are inherent in its presentation. That Genesis might not be explicitly a "physics lesson" does not mean there are no lessons about physics in it.

For example, there was an ocean on Day 1 and a firmament was created within it on Day 2, dividing waters below from waters above.

If that's not physics, nothing is.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Anything is possible for God, so why ask?

Not everything is possible if you take Genesis literally.

--Dave

Still not addressing my question, and now it seems you're squirming trying to deflect from what I'm asking.

Dave: Is it even a possibility in your mind that God created in 6 days a globe orbiting a star in an entire universe of stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc?

Put my question in your own words, and then answer it, and let's see if you get what I'm asking yet.
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Still not addressing my question, and now it seems you're squirming trying to deflect from what I'm asking.

Dave: Is it even a possibility in your mind that God created in 6 days a globe orbiting a star in an entire universe of stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc?

Put my question in your own words, and then answer it, and let's see if you get what I'm asking yet.

How many times do I have to tell you? Make your point, I'm not going to make it for you.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
How many times do I have to tell you? Make your point, I'm not going to make it for you.

--Dave
No, Dave, because if you can't answer a single question, then there's no reason for me to even make my point.

DAVE: IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE IN YOUR MIND FOR GOD TO HAVE CREATED A GLOBE EARTH, IN 6 DAYS, ~7000 YEARS AGO?

Answer this question, then I will make my point.
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I've been discussing perspective, but you have completely ignored the conversation.


The evidence is generally not wrong. But the interpretation of the evidence in support of the FE has been shown to be wrong repeatedly.

Take your picture of the sun is shown as two different sizes. But that just isn't true. http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26613&d=1533050975

So you tell us... does that sun (or moon) continue to get smaller as it gets closer to the mountains in the picture? What is its size supposed to be according to your drawing just before it reaches the mountains?

Even on a globe the moon and sun are closer to the viewer over head and smaller at the horizon. The only real question is by how much.

--Dave
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top