The Devil The Deceiver

glorydaz

Well-known member
Even bad popes don't nullify the Chair of Peter, the throne of David. And bishops have the power to depose a bad pope as well, and they have. The office remains forever.
You need to forget that chair of Peter idea. Peter had no chair. He was a fisherman, and he had a boat. The Catholic Church is evil, filled with child molesters, and they promote ungodliness at every turn. And it’s sad because so many people are held captive because they are ignorant of what the Bible teaches. They reject the Bible and have replaced it with ungodly texts written by men…..without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In fact, this current Pope is Spouting horrible ungodly words concerning all religions being one or some such drivel. I can’t even bear to hear him speak.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
Ah, so making sense is not part of the Christian life?
The only authority over the believer is the Bible, and the Lord Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. If you’re trusting in men to tell you the truth, you’ll continue to be confused, and maybe even lost.
why not rely on God's Word? instead of man's
 

Bladerunner

Active member
We all love an OUT OF CONTEXT quote!

Read the text in ITS CONTEXT:

Jer 33:15-18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(33:15) ¶ In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. (33:16) In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this [is the name] wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (33:17) ¶ For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; (33:18) Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.​
It's about a FUTURE time and from THEN ON.
what it implies is: David shall never want a 'human king' to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Did you pick that verse out of a hat?

That has been fulfilled since Christ gave His throne to Peter and the Apostles for safe keeping. That is a fulfilled prophecy, being fulfilled every day, it's not only something that is already done, it's also always being done. Unlike the earlier days of the throne of David, which disappeared from history when Judah was captured, Christ's throne has never been invisible. There's never been a time when we didn't all know exactly where it is on the Earth, whether Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, or France.
 

JudgeRightly

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Obtaining an inheritance makes a person an heir.

Indeed. But one cannot be an heir if he is not part of the family.

And Gentiles were predestined for this inheritance,

No.

You have misread what is said.

Not once does Paul (who is the only person to use the word in the Bible) use "predestined" when speaking of unbelievers.

It's ALWAYS someone who is "in Him."

Romans 8:28b-29a: "those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew He predestined..."

Who are the "whom He foreknew"? Those whom He foreknew are the ones He knew beforehand.

Those who are "in Him." Not specific individuals, but the group, "in Him." Paul speaks as one of that group: "us in Him.":

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

In other words, God, before the foundations of the earth, predestined that anyone who became part of the group "in Him" would be adopted as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, that those He foreknew (IOW, "in Him") would receive an inheritance.

In Ephesians 3, Paul does not say "Gentiles were predestined for this inheritance."

He says:

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

In other words, previously, those "in Him" could not have been Gentiles. Gentiles had to go through Israel to access God, through His covenant with them.

Now, unbelieving Gentiles can be "in Him" ("of the same body") by believing through Paul's gospel, which was given to Paul by revelation, and become part of the group that was predestined.

which means the Church was prophesied of, but it was veiled; a mystery.)

There are multiple churches. The church of Israel. The church of the Body of Christ.

The former has been known since Israel became a nation in Genesis. What was prophesied was the new covenant God would make with the same church, Israel. It has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.

The latter had never been revealed. It was a secret until it was revealed to Paul and the other apostles by "revelation of the Spirit." (Ephesians 3:5)

It was never prophesied of. It was a mystery, kept secret since the foundation of the world.
 

JudgeRightly

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For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

And this is why you check the original language...

"Want" here is not "desire." It's "lack."

“For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ”

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Strong's h3772

- Lexical: כָּרַת
- Transliteration: karath
- Part of Speech: Verb
- Phonetic Spelling: kaw-rath'
- Definition: to cut off, cut down.
- Origin: be chewed, be con-federate, covenant, cut down, off, destroy, fail, feller, A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. Make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces).
- Usage: be chewed, be con-(feder-)ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ((covenant)), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.
- Translated as (count): and shall be cut off (20), and cut off (17), shall be cut off (15), and I will cut off (14), and made (13), and cut down (8), He made (7), make (7), to cut off (7), made (6), I have made (5), and I will make (4), cut down (4), shall lack (4), cut off (3), I will cut off (3), shall fail to have (3), So made (3), were cut off (3), will be cut off (3), and have cut off (2), and he shall be cut off (2), and I will cut down (2), And they cut off (2), and will cut him off (2), and will cut off (2), has cut off (2), He had made (2), I covenanted (2), I have cut off (2), I made (2), I will make (2), let us make (2), may be cut off (2), May cut off (2), to cut (2), to make (2), will make (2), you make (2), You shall make (2), and are cut off (1), and destroy (1), and had made (1), and has been cut off (1), And have cut it down (1), and he made (1), and He will both cut off (1), and I cut him off (1), and I cut off (1), and I will cut you off (1), and let us cut her off (1), and let us cut him off (1), and let us make (1), and made together (1), And Moreover I will make (1), and they shall be cut off (1), and they shall cut down (1), and when I will make (1), and will be cut off (1), and you made (1), and you shall be cut off (1), are cut off (1), broken off (1), can we make (1), completely (1), cuts (1), cuts off (1), did make (1), do cut down (1), do cut off (1), for cutting off (1), had made (1), has made (1), Have been cut off (1), He cuts down (1), he had cut (1), he had cut down (1), he has cut down (1), he has cut off (1), He is cut off (1), I do cut off (1), I do cut you off (1), I had made (1), in making (1), in that I cut off (1), it has been cut off (1), it is cut down (1), it was chewed (1), let there fail to be (1), makes (1), may perish (1), or cut (1), or severing (1), shall be freed (1), shall cut off (1), shall fail (1), shall make (1), So cut down (1), so he made (1), that has made a covenant (1), that He may cut off (1), that I may cut off (1), that I will cut off (1), that they cut down (1), that they may make (1), Then I will cut off (1), Therefore will cut off (1), they cut (1), they form (1), they had destroyed (1), they had made (1), they made (1), they make (1), they might be cut off (1), They shall cut down (1), Those who have made (1), Thus they made (1), to cut down (1), to cut it off (1), to destroy (1), to kill off (1), was cut (1), was cut down (1), we have made (1), we will have to kill (1), when are cut off (1), while massacred (1), who cut (1), will be cut out (1), will cut (1), will cut you off (1), Will he make (1), with you (1), woodsman (1), would be cut off (1), would have been cut off (1), you may cut off (1), you shall cut down (1), you shall cut off (1), you will not cut off (1).



In other words, there will always be someone to sit on the throne of the house of Israel.
 

JudgeRightly

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Amazing insight!

I had never considered that the background of the church fathers of the 3rd century onwards woud have had such an effect on what they believe, but it makes TOTAL SENSE that because they were pagans originally, and did not grow up in the scriptures, that their readings of the scriptures would be influenced to such a degree by their pagan upbringing, as opposed to the Jews who grew up in the scriptures!
 

Right Divider

Body part
Amazing insight!

I had never considered that the background of the church fathers of the 3rd century onwards woud have had such an effect on what they believe, but it makes TOTAL SENSE that because they were pagans originally, and did not grow up in the scriptures, that their readings of the scriptures would be influenced to such a degree by their pagan upbringing, as opposed to the Jews who grew up in the scriptures!
Dr. Felter has a lot of good videos.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Amazing insight!

I had never considered that the background of the church fathers of the 3rd century onwards woud have had such an effect on what they believe, but it makes TOTAL SENSE that because they were pagans originally, and did not grow up in the scriptures, that their readings of the scriptures would be influenced to such a degree by their pagan upbringing, as opposed to the Jews who grew up in the scriptures!
Good insight for sure. It made me think about how the New Testament has been ignored by the Jews. So many Jews never even read the Bible itself. They read what the rabbi has written about the law and prophets. Ive been watching saved Jews sharing Jesus from the law and prophets. Many are seeing that Yeshua was the Messiah they were waiting for. Satan is so devious. A little truth added to a big lie gets swallowed up by so many people.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
I wonder if there is a house of Israel if there is no temple.
There is no temple at this time yet there is a House of Israel. In Ezekial 37:12, GOD tells us what He has in store for the whole house of Israel. "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel."
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
There is no temple at this time yet there is a House of Israel. In Ezekial 37:12, GOD tells us what He has in store for the whole house of Israel. "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel."
Yes, I agree.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ

Right, "through the grace", the dispensation of grace, the New Covenant, John 1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Right, "through the grace", the dispensation of grace, the New Covenant, John 1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Cherry-picking verses out of context.

The "dictionary theologian" technique is nonsense.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Amazing insight!

I had never considered that the background of the church fathers of the 3rd century onwards woud have had such an effect on what they believe, but it makes TOTAL SENSE that because they were pagans originally, and did not grow up in the scriptures, that their readings of the scriptures would be influenced to such a degree by their pagan upbringing, as opposed to the Jews who grew up in the scriptures!

First Clement, the Didache, the epistles of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, these are all first and second century. If you're concerned about corruption and accretion later on then look at all these primary sources, it's all public domain.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
You need to forget that chair of Peter idea. Peter had no chair. He was a fisherman, and he had a boat. The Catholic Church is evil, filled with child molesters, and they promote ungodliness at every turn. And it’s sad because so many people are held captive because they are ignorant of what the Bible teaches. They reject the Bible and have replaced it with ungodly texts written by men…..without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In fact, this current Pope is Spouting horrible ungodly words concerning all religions being one or some such drivel. I can’t even bear to hear him speak.

He didn't say anything other than that God can be recognized by everybody, even non-Catholics outside of Roman Catholicism, which is in fact the Church in the Bible. You don't have to be in the Church in the Bible, to recognize God, but the fullness of your faith is in Roman Catholicism, because it's the Church in the Bible.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
He didn't say anything other than that God can be recognized by everybody, even non-Catholics outside of Roman Catholicism, which is in fact the Church in the Bible. You don't have to be in the Church in the Bible, to recognize God, but the fullness of your faith is in Roman Catholicism, because it's the Church in the Bible.
No, It is not!
 

JudgeRightly

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First Clement, the Didache, the epistles of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, these are all first and second century. If you're concerned about corruption and accretion later on then look at all these primary sources, it's all public domain.

How many of those were Jews by heritage?

How many were Gentiles?

I'm not concerned about corruption.

What I was observing was that one's upbringing would have a significant effect on how one reads the scriptures!
 
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