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The deadly consequences of denying limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
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beloved57
Well-known member
Yes.
Atonement is simultaneously Limited and Unlimited. Christ was made (poieo) sin (hamartia, singular anarthrous).
He died for the sin condition of all mankind, and it is only efficacious for those who are granted repentance (the noun), etc.
Simul.
I dont know what you talking about. It sounds like however you dont believe Salvation is 100 % conditioned on the Person and Work of Christ. Do you believe that in some way Salvation depends upon what man does ? Yes or No
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
And yet... I clearly - via scripture and the mention of the Greek anarthrous noun construct - insisted He was indeed made sin on behalf of sinners and punished in the flesh for we - the Redeemed - to be the justness of Elohim in Him. (Not hamartia singular articular; but hamartia singular anarthrous.)
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Salvation is 100% predicated upon the Person and Work of Christ.
And faith (pistis, the anarthrous noun) has within it all the qualitative characteristics and functional activity of all works therefrom.
There will be works if there is faith. Those works are the noun coming forth by the delegated power of God.
No work from/by man contributes to salvation. But faith and its works on behalf of others do save us. The verb cannot be separated from the noun, but must be from that source alone.
It is of faith that it might be by grace. We have access by faith into the grace wherein we stand.
They make a different sound. Goats never become lambs. The lost sheep are still sheep.
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for dont need Faith of anykind to save them from Gods Wrath. See they whom He died for are reconciled to God, made right with Him, while they are being enemies and hating God ! Rom 5:10
[FONT="]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Faith plays no part in this ![/FONT]
Eagles Wings
New member
From your own testimony, it seems you sounded, looked liked and smelled like a goat at one point in your life.
I was atheist, but I was not a goat. A goat does not become a sheep. A vessel formed for dishonour does not become a vessel of honour.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yes.
As I understand the Atonement:
Jesus' human nature was without sin. He was a just Man, totally sinless, who vicariously took upon Himself the full penalty for sin and guilt . . death.
The Just for the Unjust.
His death was the death of death, legally and spiritually . . applied to free those chosen for pardon and redemption.
("The Death of Death in the Death of Jesus Christ" John Owen)
The discussion is one of sufficiency and purpose; quality not quantity.
Eagles Wings
New member
No "kidding".
Point is, you can't prove anyone here is a goat, and so ought not say such things to people.
I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I speak as I find and I recognise the spirits at work in people by the fruit of their words. This what I am called to do and I shall do so until the day that I die.
Epoisses
New member
The vast majority of Calvinists i.e. Reformed, Presbyterian, Anglican, Episcopal etc. are moderate or 4-point Calvinists meaning they reject limited atonement and understand that Christ's sacrifice had a universal or unlimited aspect. The Calvinists on this forum are the fringe and hyper-Calvinists who are rejected and shunned by their own kind. B57 is an uber hyper-delusional!
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
In the explicit context that no one has received - according to lapsed chronological time in this life - the end of their faith, then no one is saved. Yet all who are foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the Son have been saved from the foundation of the world.
Anyone who is of the household of faith is saved. Yet no one is saved, having gone through the final judgment and being clothed upon with immortality and incorruptability.
The lost are saved already... but not yet.
Christ died for sin; and in that, He died for all who are the elect very personally. No need for false modern dichotomies. We are at once sinner and saint. Wholly and individually saved, but not yet so.
Just as I am, by partaking of the divine nature in hypostatic union with Theanthropos, communing with God from time into timelessness before He created by His Logos, who is the eternal and uncreated Son.
Time is not relative to election.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I do not know the accuracy of your self-proclaimed statistics, but the 4-pointers are not orthodox Reformers, but a synergistic sect called "Amyraldians."
Their views of Universal Atonement does not stand the scrutiny of Holy Scripture.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
You're mistaking the verb pisteuo for the noun pistis. Faith is not believing. That's a verb.
This is what English speakers do continuously; substituting verbs for their corresponding nouns, and misunderstanding the most common Greek verb for "doing" as being predicated upon its base as an interrogative relative pronoun indicating a specific quality of action AS the act.
Faith (the noun) is the precise means by which God accomplishes the salvation of mankind according to His own eternal mind and will.
There is no sequence of time for the timeless God.
Epoisses
New member
In any denomination of Christianity the moderates outnumber everyone by vast degrees and numbers. Most people just sit in the pew and worry about their taxes and who is going to win the basketball game.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Amen. Hence my reference to hamartia singular anarthrous.
HI, NANG! God bless you, my friend.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Thank you and welcome back. You have been sorely missed!