I was made perfect by him. I was washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Past tense, it already happened and is eternal. I am a slave to righteousness.
ECT The Cross Has Made You Flawless
- Thread starter Tambora
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I was made perfect by him. I was washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Past tense, it already happened and is eternal. I am a slave to righteousness.
Interplanner
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???
the cross had to do with justification. It doesn't provide any moral cleansing except as motivation; we are to honor Christ with our lives. but it is not a magic force or talisman that makes our lives more clean. We have to work out some of our salvation (conscious effort), right? Phil 2.
Finney, Chambers and others over the last century played up the inward 'cross' as much as they could but all they were doing was confusing #1 and #2, justification and transformation. They are related but NOT identical. Like light and heat from the sun.
the cross had to do with justification. It doesn't provide any moral cleansing except as motivation; we are to honor Christ with our lives. but it is not a magic force or talisman that makes our lives more clean. We have to work out some of our salvation (conscious effort), right? Phil 2.
Finney, Chambers and others over the last century played up the inward 'cross' as much as they could but all they were doing was confusing #1 and #2, justification and transformation. They are related but NOT identical. Like light and heat from the sun.
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Interplanner
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I'm sorry but that is not the view of most church leaders down through history. we are simul iustus et peccator said Luther. Likewise Calvin, Spurgeon, Packer, Stroebel, Schaeffer. There is always sin to confess.
Interplanner
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The perfection of justification is that Christ is credited to you for your debt of sin. It is not saying your performance going forward is perfect. I can tell that already just exchanging with you today!
Cross Reference
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If you continue in the faith, rooted and ground, which is what the new birth from above is all about, being it is the enabler that is by the redemption and salvation by Jesus Christ.
You are right; it is not the view of those men, nor of many more like them...
Like I said, we differ in where we are looking at things from.
What you should tell is that you do not know what he is talking about.
He is not even talking about performance...
Cross Reference
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Not in the least because they were merely pointing Vanity to be nothing more/less than self-gratification Paul spoke of in Romans 7. You are the one confused if you don't "see" that.
ttruscott
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Why then are you and all legitimate children of GOD chastised with painful suffering??? Heb 12:5-12
Causing suffering for no reason is another definition of torture.
Interplanner
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Sorry, justification and transformation are related but NOT identical.
Those perfectionist authors thought Rom 7 was an all time, all purpose description of all inner struggles, when it is actually about struggling with vestiges left over from growing up in religion like Judaism.
Interplanner
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Yes he is, you know it all. He already said it was the same thing as the reference in Heb 12.
Interplanner
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Our new birth does not keep our faith going and grounded. It is the objective truth about Christ in history that does, He loved us and gave himself up for us. If you are dependent on inner transformation, you will be very dissappointed one day to get very little mileage out of it.
Cross Reference
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Well, at least we know the source of your difficulties in understanding Jesus Christ; your lack of worship to Him. Too bad you can't recognize it.
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Cross Reference
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If you would say it was the "law of the flesh" Paul was referring to, you would be correct. cf Romans 8:20. But, I doubt if you will.
Interplanner
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First, What is "it"?
You're only partly right, 2 Tim. 3.
For the carnal mind is enmity against God, with or without religious upbringing, Rom. 8; Gal. 5.
And all religion is, is but man's attempt against himself, in the face of his built in awareness that he comes short of the glory of God, Rom. 2 and 7.
Who taught Adam to cover himself? Gen. 3.
Knowledge, shame and guilt taught him. instantly
That you do not understand.
Why are you even on here; you don't believe Christ died on a Cross for your sins, and you don't believe Matthew thru Revelation were inspired by God.
Cute - a heretic teaching the Bible.
You need to not take anyone's word on any subject. You should check it out for yourself.
The "dying for one's sins" was later theology. It was worked out by Anselm of Canterbury around the year 900. Check it out please.
Jesus NEVER said "I am dying for your sins."
And yes I believe ALL the authors of the Bible were inspired by God.
You have not been paying attention. Please go back to my previous posts and see for yourself.