ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[john w]

Failure to believe these verses which exposes MAD doctrine for what it is, is just plain old MAD unbelief---

.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

LA

Failure to believe these verses which exposes Christ rejector LALiar "doctrine" for what it is, is just plain old Christ rejecting LALying unbelief---




Lev. 11 KJV

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. 3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. 4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 they shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14 and the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 every raven after his kind; 16 and the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 and the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you. 21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; 22 even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. 23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even. 25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even. 26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean. 27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even. 28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, 30 and the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole. 31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even. 32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed. 33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it. 34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean. 35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean, and shall be unclean unto you. 36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean. 37 And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean. 38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even. 40 And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten. 42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. 43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. 44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 45 For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 to make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

So there-you taught us this "spam any string of verses in yellow" sophistry technique.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Failure to believe these verses which exposes Christ rejector LALiar "doctrine" for what it is, is just plain old Christ rejecting LALying unbelief---

You and heir have called me a liar so much now that you should not complain when I expose your lies.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


As also do these verses show John W and heir to be telling lies.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

LA

 

[john w]

You and heir have called me a liar so much now that you should not complain when I expose your lies.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


As also do these verses show John W and heir to be telling lies.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

LA

Lev. 13 KJV
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying, 2 When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests: 3 and the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean. 4 If the bright spot be white in the skin of his flesh, and in sight be not deeper than the skin, and the hair thereof be not turned white; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague seven days: 5 and the priest shall look on him the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague in his sight be at a stay, and the plague spread not in the skin; then the priest shall shut him up seven days more: 6 and the priest shall look on him again the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague be somewhat dark, and the plague spread not in the skin, the priest shall pronounce him clean: it is but a scab: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean. 7 But if the scab spread much abroad in the skin, after that he hath been seen of the priest for his cleansing, he shall be seen of the priest again: 8 and if the priest see that, behold, the scab spreadeth in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a leprosy.

9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest; 10 and the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising; 11 it is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean. 12 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh; 13 then the priest shall consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is clean. 14 But when raw flesh appeareth in him, he shall be unclean. 15 And the priest shall see the raw flesh, and pronounce him to be unclean: for the raw flesh is unclean: it is a leprosy. 16 Or if the raw flesh turn again, and be changed unto white, he shall come unto the priest; 17 and the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the plague be turned into white; then the priest shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: he is clean.

18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed, 19 and in the place of the boil there be a white rising, or a bright spot, white, and somewhat reddish, and it be shewed to the priest; 20 and if, when the priest seeth it, behold, it be in sight lower than the skin, and the hair thereof be turned white; the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague of leprosy broken out of the boil. 21 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hairs therein, and if it be not lower than the skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days: 22 and if it spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague. 23 But if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not, it is a burning boil; and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

24 Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white; 25 then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the hair in the bright spot be turned white, and it be in sight deeper than the skin; it is a leprosy broken out of the burning: wherefore the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy. 26 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hair in the bright spot, and it be no lower than the other skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days: 27 and the priest shall look upon him the seventh day: and if it be spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy. 28 And if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not in the skin, but it be somewhat dark; it is a rising of the burning, and the priest shall pronounce him clean: for it is an inflammation of the burning.

29 If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard; 30 then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard. 31 And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days: 32 and in the seventh day the priest shall look on the plague: and, behold, if the scall spread not, and there be in it no yellow hair, and the scall be not in sight deeper than the skin; 33 he shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more: 34 and in the seventh day the priest shall look on the scall: and, behold, if the scall be not spread in the skin, nor be in sight deeper than the skin; then the priest shall pronounce him clean: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean. 35 But if the scall spread much in the skin after his cleansing; 36 then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is unclean. 37 But if the scall be in his sight at a stay, and that there is black hair grown up therein; the scall is healed, he is clean: and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

38 If a man also or a woman have in the skin of their flesh bright spots, even white bright spots; 39 then the priest shall look: and, behold, if the bright spots in the skin of their flesh be darkish white; it is a freckled spot that groweth in the skin; he is clean.

40 And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean. 41 And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean. 42 And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead. 43 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh; 44 he is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. 46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.

47 The garment also that the plague of leprosy is in, whether it be a woollen garment, or a linen garment; 48 whether it be in the warp, or woof; of linen, or of woollen; whether in a skin, or in any thing made of skin; 49 and if the plague be greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a plague of leprosy, and shall be shewed unto the priest: 50 and the priest shall look upon the plague, and shut up it that hath the plague seven days: 51 and he shall look on the plague on the seventh day: if the plague be spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in a skin, or in any work that is made of skin; the plague is a fretting leprosy; it is unclean. 52 He shall therefore burn that garment, whether warp or woof, in woollen or in linen, or any thing of skin, wherein the plague is: for it is a fretting leprosy; it shall be burnt in the fire. 53 And if the priest shall look, and, behold, the plague be not spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; 54 then the priest shall command that they wash the thing wherein the plague is, and he shall shut it up seven days more: 55 and the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed: and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread; it is unclean; thou shalt burn it in the fire; it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without. 56 And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it; then he shall rend it out of the garment, or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof: 57 and if it appear still in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a spreading plague: thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire. 58 And the garment, either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be, which thou shalt wash, if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time, and shall be clean. 59 This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen, either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins, to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.


That ought to do it. QED.

 

[musterion]

I think I'm having a stroke. Everything just turned yellow.

 

[Arsenios]

atrol:

Beginning to take this personally.

I fear you are right...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

This is double-speak.

You say:

We are baptized into Christ, not by man alone, but by
...her servants in obedience to Christ.

We're not baptized by man, we are baptized by servants? I don't see the distinction.

Who baptized Paul into Christ, and filled him with the Holy Spirit?

It was Ananias, a Servant of the Lord...

It was Ananias, a Member of the Body of Christ...

The Christ Paul was persecuting...

Kicking against the pricks...

You see, when a member of the Body of Christ is acting within that Body in obedience to Christ, it is Christ acting... That is how Grace works... That is why Christ asked Paul "Why are you persecuting Me???" He did not say, "Why are you persecuting My Servants"...

Paul was baptized into Christ by a Servant of Christ within the Body of Christ in obedience to Christ, and his name was Ananias, who healed Paul of his blindness, and filled him with the Holy Spirit, [and he spoke in tongues, as is attested in another Epistle]...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, and further


Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Our circumcision is without hands, but the baptism is with hands?

Does not compute.

We are baptized into Christ Who was circumcised already, but the circumcision is of the heart, not the penis... The circumcision of the penis is a TYPOS and a symbol of the REAL circumcision which is of the hardness of one's heart...

Arsenios

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Who baptized Paul into Christ, and filled him with the Holy Spirit?

It was Ananias, a Servant of the Lord...

It was Ananias, a Member of the Body of Christ...

The Christ Paul was persecuting...

Kicking against the pricks...

You see, when a member of the Body of Christ is acting within that Body in obedience to Christ, it is Christ acting... That is how Grace works... That is why Christ asked Paul "Why are you persecuting Me???" He did not say, "Why are you persecuting My Servants"...

Paul was baptized into Christ by a Servant of Christ within the Body of Christ, and his name was Ananias, who healed Paul of his blindness, and filled him with the Holy Spirit, and he spoke in tongues, as is attested in another Epistle...

Arsenios

Yes.

Madists reject the gifts of the Spirit which Paul had and explained in his epistles because they do not have the same Spirit which dwelt in Paul , evidenced by Madists lack of good fruit, in their lack of following Pauls manner of life, and their blaspheming of the saints.

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

 

[Arsenios]

So I can't know 100% for sure before I die?

Salvation is not a percentage racket, but amendment of life and stability... There is no height from which one cannot fall, because Lucifer, the Light Bearer, himself fell...

And if Scripture is not lying when it tells us to persevere in Faith to the end so that we SHALL be saved, then how can we possibly say we positively know 100% for sure yes-sir-eee-bob we will be saved prior to the end?

But if that's true, why can't I know 100% for sure before I die?

We live in anticipation and hope, persevering to the end, so that we shall be saved... You just kinda have to live with that... If you think you got yourself a 100% guarantee, you will not find a basis for that belief in the pages of Holy Writ... With Paul, we confess our unworthiness before man and God, being the Chief of sinners each and every one of us...

There are no hidden sins. God sees all, knows all.

Try confessing eyeball to eyeball within the Church... If you do not, you are hiding your sins from the Body of Christ... Which is why there exists Prophetic insight in the Church, discussed in the Bible as well...

So which is it -- fully forgiven and cleansed before death,

Yes, absolutely...

thus guaranteed salvation (no sin to condemn)...

Absolutely yes, but ONLY IF you DIE IMMEDIATELY as you emerge from the Baptismal Waters... Salvation withdraws when one commits sins without confessing them in the Church... It returns with confession and repentance... Life in Christ lives in this struggle to keep the purity of heart, which we received in Baptism, that keeps our conscience clean throughout our lives... If you are not engaged in this struggle with sin, confession and repentance, you are not living a Christian life...

or can't know until after death, at which it's too late to do anything about it? Pick one.

You pretty much DO know if you are concealing your sins from the Body of Christ on earth... Confession ONLY to God is un-Biblical... In Paul's time, they confessed before the entire assembly... Nowadays we have confessors to hear our confessions...

Arsenios

 

[musterion]

Andy, did you get all that?

 

[Nang]

Who baptized Paul into Christ, and filled him with the Holy Spirit?

It was Ananias, a Servant of the Lord...

It was Ananias, a Member of the Body of Christ...

The Christ Paul was persecuting...

Kicking against the pricks...

You see, when a member of the Body of Christ is acting within that Body in obedience to Christ, it is Christ acting... That is how Grace works... That is why Christ asked Paul "Why are you persecuting Me???" He did not say, "Why are you persecuting My Servants"...

Paul was baptized into Christ by a Servant of Christ within the Body of Christ in obedience to Christ, and his name was Ananias, who healed Paul of his blindness, and filled him with the Holy Spirit, [and he spoke in tongues, as is attested in another Epistle]...

Arsenios

My testimony, is that I was baptized into Christ, by reading His Holy Words.

No church, no people, no human influence at all.

I was an unbeliever one minute, and believed in God without doubt, 2 minutes later.

Thus, a deep and abiding love of Holy Scripture and confidence in its saving and keeping power, has continued in my heart and mind for over 40 years, and my desire to live by and learn all I can from Jesus' teachings, has never abated.

Matthew 4:4

Nang

 

[Mocking You]

Who baptized Paul into Christ, and filled him with the Holy Spirit?

Paul was already filled with the Holy Spirit BEFORE he was water baptized.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

see also Acts 22:14-16

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

My testimony, is that I was baptized into Christ, by reading His Holy Words.

No church, no people, no human influence at all.

I was an unbeliever one minute, and believed in God without doubt, 2 minutes later.

Thus, a deep and abiding love of Holy Scripture and confidence in its saving and keeping power, has continued in my heart and mind for over 40 years, and my desire to live by and learn all I can from Jesus' teachings, has never abated.

Matthew 4:4

Nang

However, you do claim to be a Calvinist! So, according to you and
your ilk, you are the "Chosen Elect!" So, according to your belief
system reading the word, hearing the message of God's Grace,
and anything else really doesn't enter the picture! It was just,
meant to be? Is that not true Nang! Whether you were reading,
hearing or whatever, nothing could have prevented you from
being one the the "ELECT" true?

 

[Arsenios]

My testimony, is that I was baptized into Christ, by reading His Holy Words.

No church, no people, no human influence at all.

I was an unbeliever one minute, and believed in God without doubt, 2 minutes later.

Thus, a deep and abiding love of Holy Scripture and confidence in its saving and keeping power, has continued in my heart and mind for over 40 years, and my desire to live by and learn all I can from Jesus' teachings, has never abated.

Matthew 4:4

Nang

I had the same experience - Perhaps a tad less than your extravagantly long two whole minutes... And I experienced eternal life then, and it was prior to Baptism... Heck, I did not even think I was a Christian, but I knew eternal life...

But the question is how did Christ set up Salvation for man on earth, and not each person's particular path to it... IF Salvation IN Christ is ONLY by the Holy Spirit, then all we have is Old Testament Salvation, because they HAD the Holy Spirit... What they did NOT have was Baptism into Christ as Christ by His Baptism gave it to us...

And make no mistake, there WAS Salvation prior to Christ, but it was NOT that which Christ gave to us in His Household on earth... Christ Himself contrasted the two, saying that the LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than even John the Baptist, the greatest of all the Prophets...

You see, Old Testament Salvation is saturation by the Holy Spirit... New Testament Salvation in Christ is the establishment of a renewed hypostasis, where fallen man is joined in his person to Christ, and is thereby returned to the primordial Beauty in which God originally created man...

Without a person undergoing Christ's Baptism into Christ, which is given by Christ at the hands of His Servants in Him in the Body of Christ, one does not have this change in WHO one IS... One has God, but not the Enhypostatic Union with God...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Paul was already filled with the Holy Spirit BEFORE he was water baptized.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

see also Acts 22:14-16

You need to read Ananias' statement to Paul...

Acts 9:17

Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus,
that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest,
hath sent me,
that thou mightest receive thy sight,
and
be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Andy, did you get all that?

It won't help you...

What you are about to do...

Do it even more quickly!

God bless you...

Arsenios

 

[Nang]

However, you do claim to be a Calvinist!

I only claim the Reformed faith.

So, according to your belief
system reading the word, hearing the message of God's Grace,
and anything else really doesn't enter the picture! It was just,
meant to be?

Are you sick? I said nothing of the kind, and you cannot quote me as saying anything close to your lying accusations.

Is that not true Nang!

God is my witness that my testimony is true. You are the poster that is not true.

Whether you were reading,
hearing or whatever, nothing could have prevented you from
being one the the "ELECT" true?

I rejoice that God transferred me from the darkness of unbelief, to the light of belief in His grace. Why do you react so negatively to such a wonderful work of God?

 

[Nang]

I had the same experience - Perhaps a tad less than your extravagantly long two whole minutes... And I experienced eternal life then, and it was prior to Baptism... Heck, I did not even think I was a Christian, but I knew eternal life...

But the question is how did Christ set up Salvation for man on earth, and not each person's particular path to it... IF Salvation IN Christ is ONLY by the Holy Spirit, then all we have is Old Testament Salvation, because they HAD the Holy Spirit... What they did NOT have was Baptism into Christ as Christ by His Baptism gave it to us...

And make no mistake, there WAS Salvation prior to Christ, but it was NOT that which Christ gave to us in His Household on earth... Christ Himself contrasted the two, saying that the LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than even John the Baptist, the greatest of all the Prophets...

You see, Old Testament Salvation is saturation by the Holy Spirit... New Testament Salvation in Christ is the establishment of a renewed hypostasis, where fallen man is joined in his person to Christ, and is thereby returned to the primordial Beauty in which God originally created man...

Without a person undergoing Christ's Baptism into Christ, which is given by Christ at the hands of His Servants in Him in the Body of Christ, one does not have this change in WHO one IS... One has God, but not the Enhypostatic Union with God...

Arsenios

I believe salvation has been worked according to unconditional elective grace upon the O.T. saints, the same as for the N.T. saints.

All salvation is the result of Divine Covenant (Godly Decree) that is eternal and not subject to times, cultures, or change at all.

 

[Mocking You]

Without a person undergoing Christ's Baptism into Christ, which is given by Christ at the hands of His Servants in Him in the Body of Christ, one does not have this change in WHO one IS... One has God, but not the Enhypostatic Union with God...

Arsenios

Sounds like a reading selection from a catechism because I know it's not from the Bible!

 

[Mocking You]

You need to read Ananias' statement to Paul...

Acts 9:17

Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus,
that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest,
hath sent me,
that thou mightest receive thy sight,
and
be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Arsenios

And verse 18
Acts 9:18
Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,

I maintain he was filled with the Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him and the scales fell from Saul's eyes.

This happened in Acts 8 as well. In fact people HAD been baptized but had not received the Holy Spirit until hands were laid on them.

Acts 8:15-17
When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.