ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[Arsenios]

This is the gospel of Christ:

I had asked you if you denied that what Peter said IS the Gospel of Christ... I did not ask you to give me the Gospel of Christ... I asked you to affirm or deny Peter's words as the Gospel of Christ...

Here are those words again:

Act 10:43
To Him give all the prophets witness...
That through His Name
Whosoever believeth in Him
Shall receive remission of sins.

Are they or are they not words from the Gospel of Christ?

Now your answer was to give me a series of Bible quotations which express what you understand to be that Gospel. And here they are:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

These also are the Gospel's words - Peter and Paul are in full agreement here...

Unless you can show that they are NOT in agreement...

Can you?

Then you add:

And when one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing it, they are saved and sealed unto the day of redemption!

Orthodoxy disagrees with this because it places one's Salvation and Sealing in the hands of the one who needs it, predicating Salvation on one's own personal TRUST... Your trust, essential as it is, does not save you... God saves, because Salvation IS Union with God, and ONLY God HAS that union to Give, and Christ's Baptism is the way to union with Christ, for we are baptized INTO Christ, and this NOT by man alone, but by the Body of Christ acting through Her Servants in obedience to Christ Who is Her Head...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

You see, they WERE sealed AFTER they believed, BY their Baptism into Christ and then their Anointing which filled and sealed in them the Holy Spirit...

And it's by grace we are saved through faith;...

Salvation is BY God's Grace, attained THROUGH our entry into the Faith of Christ that is discipled by the Body of Christ...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Exactly so...

What do you want with remission of sins, when we've been forgiven all trespasses?

Pray tell, my friend... What is the difference?

When we are baptized into Christ, we receive remission of all our sins... That means that all our trespasses have been forgiven... Our debts are all paid... These are but three expressions that mean the same thing...

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Exactly so -

So in order for you to prove your two gospels theory, you have to show where Peter contradicts Paul in preaching the Gospel... Where Paul affirms what Peter and the Circumcision denies...

And Peter DID affirm the Baptism of the uncircumcised Gentiles...

And this you have not done...

Arsenios

 

[john w]

I keep looking for something else to sell, and give to the poor...

How about my lovely socks? They are the only holy things I have...

Would you like them?

Do you obey Paul's commands, his desires for you?

Did you READ ABOUT Jesus Christ preaching His Own Gospel of the Good News?

Matthew 4:17
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
Be ye repenting:
For already hath drawn near...
The kingdom of the heavens."

So do you imagine, in your fecund recesses,
that the Gospel which Paul preached
DIFFERED from this
The Gospel of Jesus Christ??

Arsenios

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff


Fine. Sell all you have. That's good news. Do it.


Fraud.

 

[john w]

God Bless you too...

You jes' say'n that 'caus'n ya loves me...

Arsenios

PS - What's a bong?

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff


Fine. Sell all you have. Show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded. Tell no man that He is the Christ. That's good news. Do it.


Poser.

 

[Arsenios]

Pretend I'm do not know Christ
(you may in fact believe I don't...all the better).

That is a hard request, because I love truth and reality so much that I do not do well with pretense, except in humor to mock the dictates of this fallen and demon-ridden world...

I do not know if you know or do not know Christ...
I can only say you do not talk as do most folks I know who do in fact know Him...

I come to you under conviction for my sin...

Does that mean you have hit bottom?

and I ask you point blank: what must I do to be saved?

First, do whatever it takes to stop the sin for which you are "under conviction"... One cannot learn of God while drunk, while having sex with a prostitute, while watching internet porn, while robbing a bank, while yelling at one's spouse, and on and on...

Second, begin to pray and ask God to help you in your quest to overcome the great sin you now see as convicting you... Even if you do not believe in God, pray honestly to the God you do not believe in, to help you...

Third, begin to attend Church services without talking, and seek the blessing of an elder who will pray for you, as the Church already is doing when you come...

Be blunt, spare no detail, leave nothing out.

"Come and See..." ( John 1:39 )

You will be entering a great quest, leaving behind everything you thought you had, and gaining the One Who gives us everything, in Spirit and in Truth... You will first deny your self, and then you will take up your cross of suffering, and then you will follow the Master, Christ our God... And by God's Grace, you will be able to overcome your sins, and cleanse your heart, and live in purity and love for God and all mankind... And it starts with being fed up with your self and all your evil deeds which we all know so well...

Arsenios

 

[musterion]

At what point in that process can I know I'm forgiven and saved?

 

[Arsenios]

Fine. Sell all you have.

OK...

Show yourself to a Levitical priest,

Obedience to Christ is not fulfilling the Levitical Law of the Jews...

and offer the gift that Moses commanded.

Nor is it to live under the command of Moses...

Tell no man that He is the Christ.

No man IS the Christ...

But Christ ABIDES in His Holy Ones...

That's good news.

You seem a little confused...

Do it.

How about just Christ's words to the young rich man whom He gazed lovingly upon: "GO... Sell all that you have and give to the poor... Then COME, and follow Me..."

As an Orthodox Christian, I LIVE in that process...
And by God's Grace, I will persevere in it to the end...

Poser.

NEXT!


I do not blame you for your profound cynicism - In this fallen world, it is appropriate, for every good is tainted with evil, and vice versa... But you must needs know that YOUR cynicism is not of God...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

At what point in that process can I know I'm forgiven and saved?

You are ALWAYS being saved, until death...
The D-Day, the Dread and Last judgement Day...
THEN you will know for final certainty...

You are cleansed of all sin in Baptism...
You are forgiven the sins you confess in the Church...
Confession is to flesh and blood persons...

The sins you conceal will not be forgiven...
This is a Reality Quest...
It takes courage...

Arsenios

 

[john w]

OK...

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff


On record liar-he has not sold all he has.

Luke 18:22 KJV
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Obedience to Christ is not fulfilling the Levitical Law of the Jews...

Deception:


"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff

Nor is it to live under the command of Moses...

Deception:

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff



Matthew 8:4 KJV
And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

No man IS the Christ...

But Christ ABIDES in His Holy Ones...

Deception:

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff


Matthew 16:20 KJV
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

You seem a little confused...

You're a fraud.

How about just Christ's words to the young rich man whom He gazed lovingly upon: "GO... Sell all that you have and give to the poor... Then COME, and follow Me..."


As an Orthodox Christian, I LIVE in that process...
And by God's Grace, I will persevere in it to the end...

"Every word he spoke is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff


Fine. Sell all you have. Show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded. Tell no man that He is the Christ. That's good news. Do it.

Poser.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Here are Jesus OWN words of His Gospel:"-Maharishi Jeff

atrol:

Beginning to take this personally.

 

[Mocking You]

Christ's Baptism is the way to union with Christ, for we are baptized INTO Christ, and this NOT by man alone, but by the Body of Christ acting through Her Servants in obedience to Christ Who is Her Head...

This is double-speak.

You say:

We are baptized into Christ, not by man alone, but by
...her servants in obedience to Christ.

We're not baptized by man, we are baptized by servants? I don't see the distinction.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

This is double-speak.

You say:

We are baptized into Christ, not by man alone, but by
...her servants in obedience to Christ.

We're not baptized by man, we are baptized by servants? I don't see the distinction.

Yes, and further


Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Our circumcision is without hands, but the baptism is with hands?

Does not compute.

 

[john w]

Yes, and further


Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Our circumcision is without hands, but the baptism is with hands?

Does not compute.

And women are circumcised? I aint no Doctor Padre M., who was a doctor for Opie, but I can figger that out.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

And women are circumcised? I aint no Doctor Padre M., who was a doctor for Opie, but I can figger that out.

Were you on the council that ran Dr Mulcahy out of town?
Rabble Rouser.

 

[john w]

Were you on the council that ran Dr Mulcahy out of town?
Rabble Rouser.

He was having an affair with Ellie, and Frankie. Frankie's "Midnight Madness" perfume did him in.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

He was having an affair with Ellie, and Frankie. Frankie's "Midnight Madness" perfume did him in.

Barn asked Frankie Hollister out once, but she called him a Squirt.

 

[john w]

Barn asked Frankie Hollister out once, but she called him a Squirt.

And I heard that he asked Miss Rosemary out, but broke up with her later, when she became another character on the show. I figger that the show was really set in Arkansas. Curious.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

And I heard that he asked Miss Rosemary out, but broke up with her later, when she became another character on the show. I figger that the show was really set in Arkansas. Curious.

I still can't believe that the Lady Manicurist got involved with the occult, and became a genie. She seemed clean cut.

 

[musterion]

You are ALWAYS being saved, until death...
The D-Day, the Dread and Last judgement Day...
THEN you will know for final certainty...

So I can't know 100% for sure before I die?

You are cleansed of all sin in Baptism...
You are forgiven the sins you confess in the Church...
Confession is to flesh and blood persons...

But if that's true, why can't I know 100% for sure before I die?

The sins you conceal will not be forgiven...
This is a Reality Quest...
It takes courage...

There are no hidden sins. God sees all, knows all.

So which is it -- fully forgiven and cleansed before death, thus guaranteed salvation (no sin to condemn)...or can't know until after death, at which it's too late to do anything about it? Pick one.

 

[john w]

I still can't believe that the Lady Manicurist got involved with the occult, and became a genie. She seemed clean cut.

And then her husband became so big shot oil tycoon. I'd have given that guy "The Big Freeze."

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Failure to believe these verses which exposes MAD doctrine for what it is, is just plain old MAD unbelief---

.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

LA