the church

[KingdomRose]

But James does say, "Simeon hath declared." Acts 15:14

Peter was the first to speak. And, he was the one who "fell into a trance" (Ac10:10), which precipitated the dispute that prompted the council in the first place.

Methinks you have your events mixed up. (1) Peter had a vision from God about accepting Gentiles into the congregation, which Peter was not enthusiastic about. (2) Acts 15 involved another problem---should Christian Jews still follow the Law? (3) Peter isn't mentioned in Acts 15 concerning the actual issue they were discussing. He is just mentioned to underline the fact that God has turned His attention to the Gentiles to include them in the privileged congregation of true worshippers. Then James went on to decide the final ruling, perhaps without Peter's input, perhaps with it, but it was James who had the final say.

 

[brewmama]

No, their issue was pedophilia. Its much worse them homosexuality.

Please be more informed.

You obviously don't even know what pedophilia is, and gullibly believe the media, who spun it as pedophilia so as to not offend the homosexuals. The vast majority of victims were post-pubescent, which makes it homosexuality. As usual YOU are the one uninformed.

 

[KingdomRose]

And the Catholic Church issue was homosexual. Please get informed.

Back at you. The issue with the RCC INCLUDES pedophilia. Sex with children! Sometimes the acts were with young girls.

 

[brewmama]

Back at you. The issue with the RCC INCLUDES pedophilia. Sex with children! Sometimes the acts were with young girls.

I'm sure somewhere in the history of the Catholic Church there has been some pedophilia and hetersexual abuse. However, I'm quite sure it has also occurred in Protestant churches too. Jerry Sandusky comes to mind, who perhaps wasn't a church per se, but was acting as a Christian authority. You certainly can't call Catholics out as sole abusers. And the big scandal that originated in Boston, and just had a movie made about it, was by far and away post-pubescent homosexuality, not pedophilia.

 

[KingdomRose]

Your Bible (And all others) says Satan will be tormented for ever and ever ...yet you say he will die... "complete obliteration". Your religion differs from God's Word on many points.

I have to disagree. Let's reason together. (Isaiah 1:18, KJV) Revelation is mostly symbolic. When the Bible says that Satan will be "tormented" forever, why say that that is literal when "the wild beast" in that same verse (Rev.20:10) is NOT literal? The wild beast symbolizes a political entity.

In addition to that, "death & Hades are hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second DEATH, the lake of fire." (verse 14)

Can death be thrown, or, hurled? Can Hades be tossed, or, cast? Doesn't this show that the tormenting in the lake of fire is FIGURATIVE of something? It must be symbolic. Death and Hades cannot be picked up and thrown.

The Greek word for "torment" was largely understood in John's day to mean "restrain." The noun associated with that root word came to mean "jailer." So to be tormented, in this context, would mean restrained.....kept from doing what one would like to do. If someone is DEAD that one is certainly restrained from doing what he'd like to do. That is the meaning of hurling Satan into the lake of fire and him being "tormented."

The last part of verse 14 tells clearly what the lake of fire means----the second death. Satan and the wild beast and all of the wicked will undergo the second death, the death from which no one is resurrected. DEATH. So spirits can die. And they will die.

They will be no more, as evidenced by the fact that death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire also. That can only mean that death will be no more, and Hades will be no more. Completely obliterated. Anything or any one cast into the lake of fire are merely gone forever and ever.

How can you argue with "the second DEATH" which spirits will undergo?

 

[KingdomRose]

Scripture.... Even your own mistranslation does not teach Hell and the grave are the same. Your religion teaches that.
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?articleid=59597&columnid=5440

No, many Bible versions correlate Hell with the grave. It just takes a little research to see this. And a humble hunger for the truth of the matter.

One place that the King James Version states clearly that hell = the grave is a footnote in the margin next to Revelation 20:13. Hell is the grave. Check it out.

Where some versions say, at Matthew 16:18, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" (KJV), others say (as the NAB does), "the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it." In the margin it says, Greek, Hades. Then at Revelation 1:18 the NAB renders the Greek Hades again as "the netherworld," and in the margin it says, netherworld: Greek Hades, Hebrew Sheol.

So, according to other versions and other religions, Hell = the grave (KJV), and if Hades and the netherworld = Hell (NAB) then Hell, Hades, and the netherworld all = the grave.

 

[KingdomRose]

You obviously don't even know what pedophilia is, and gullibly believe the media, who spun it as pedophilia so as to not offend the homosexuals. The vast majority of victims were post-pubescent, which makes it homosexuality. As usual YOU are the one uninformed.

How can you be so smug when you don't even know what pedophilia IS? Pedophilia is sex with children. Having sex with children, no matter if they're 2 or 18, is pedophilia.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Scripture.... Even your own mistranslation does not teach Hell and the grave are the same. Your religion teaches that.
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?articleid=59597&columnid=5440

His "belief system" is a cult!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, many Bible versions correlate Hell with the grave. It just takes a little research to see this. And a humble hunger for the truth of the matter.

One place that the King James Version states clearly that hell = the grave is a footnote in the margin next to Revelation 20:13. Hell is the grave. Check it out.

Where some versions say, at Matthew 16:18, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" (KJV), others say (as the NAB does), "the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it." In the margin it says, Greek, Hades. Then at Revelation 1:18 the NAB renders the Greek Hades again as "the netherworld," and in the margin it says, netherworld: Greek Hades, Hebrew Sheol.

So, according to other versions and other religions, Hell = the grave (KJV), and if Hades and the netherworld = Hell (NAB) then Hell, Hades, and the netherworld all = the grave.

No one ought to be listening to a "cultist." You're a member of a cult.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus would not be involved in any of the nefarious deeds of the RCC! He even said that "by their deeds you will know" the wolves in sheeps clothing. We have to look at the deeds of a religious institution. If they're heinous, then I don't think Jesus is involved.

There are people who know the truth and sin.

Those people may be disqualified for salvation, but they know the truth.

So while the Catholic denomination is false, it's falseness is not determined on the individual sins of the people in that religion. Obviously, the Catholic church does not say pedophilia is approved by God according to their doctrines and practices.

 

[God's Truth]

Even Catholics call the Church "she."

I know; they do that because they do not understand that Jesus is the church, and true worshipers are the church, for they are part of Jesus' body.

 

[God's Truth]

Obviously they can die because the demons have been judged and they are said to be going to be consigned to the lake of fire. If the lake of fire means consuming, annihilating DEATH, then of course they can die!

Angels are spirits. Prove they now die.

 

[God's Truth]

No it doesn't. It says: Jesus was made alive in the spirit "in which he went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient...in the days of Noah." (IPeter 3:18-20)

Nothing there about those who are now dead! Can you see that?


It was about Jesus proclaiming something to the DEMONS in their spiritually darkened state of being.

You are the one who can't see. The scripture says the gospel was preached to those who are NOW DEAD.

1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

 

[Nihilo]

How can you be so smug when you don't even know what pedophilia IS? Pedophilia is sex with children. Having sex with children, no matter if they're 2 or 18, is pedophilia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a58eda-406e-11e5-9561-4b3dc93e3b9a_story.html

 

[chrysostom]

the church is in every nation
-spreading the good news
-with
-the most churches
-the most schools
-the most hospitals
-the most missions

 

[chrysostom]

LOL! You mean they knowingly ordained them in the past?

yes
-they knowingly ordained homosexuals in the past thinking the vow of celibacy would be respected
-it wasn't

 

[chrysostom]

Your answer doesn't show any resolving of any problem. Hasn't the Church taught against homosexuality forever? Then if homosexuality is wrong, why would they ordain them? The RCC doesn't come out clean any way you try to look at it.

not the way you look at it

 

[themuzicman]

But James does say, "Simeon hath declared." Acts 15:14

However, Simeon only declared what he had experienced. To say that this was a ruling simply ignores the text.

Peter was the first to speak. And, he was the one who "fell into a trance" (Ac10:10), which precipitated the dispute that prompted the council in the first place.

Which is to say that they listened to Peter.

But who's judgment was it?

13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me.
...

19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Nothing came after James made the judgment.

 

[themuzicman]

don't really know
-peter just agreed
-or
-maybe peter did not yet see himself as being in charge

If Peter and the other apostles didn't see Jesus as making Peter the head of the Church in Matthew, then we cannot make that assumption, either, short of some other declaration in Scripture.

 

[themuzicman]

I know; they do that because they do not understand that Jesus is the church, and true worshipers are the church, for they are part of Jesus' body.

The Church is also referred to as Christ's bride. Christ is the head of the Church as a husband is the head of the wife.

Thus, "she" is appropriate.