the church

[God's Truth]

The origins of the office of pope was pagan in it’s inception. What the Roman Catholic Church wants you to believe is that the apostle Peter was the first “pope”, however scripture refutes this claim. In fact the theology of the Roman Catholic Church reads that if anyone denies that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome they shall be accursed!

Nowhere in the New Testament does it read that Peter took on any role of “pope”, in fact the Gospels do not even show a whisper of any evidence that any of the apostles held any position of primacy! Jesus treated all His disciples the same and demonstrated this by conferring with all of them.

Peter wrote:

1 Peter 5: 1-5 (NASB)

Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet aslording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with*humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Does that read as if Peter views himself as pope? No he speaks as a fellow pastor/elder! Look if Peter shows us absolutely no evidence of him being the “Vicar of Christ” and it is nowhere indicated in the writing’s of Paul, why should we trust the Roman Catholic Church of such proclamations of the papacy of Peter?

As for the Roman Catholic term “Vicar of Christ” well…the word “Vicar” is defined as a “substitute”. This is the thought pattern of the RCC as they have stated that Peter is that “substitute” as he is the Lords representation on earth. This is blasphemous as Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit is the “Vicar of Christ”, read*John 14: 16 (NASB)

16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another*Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Also read John 16: 5-11 (NASB)

5 “But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because*I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

I conclude that inlight of evidence of the holy scriptures, the institution of the Papacy has zero credibility.

I pray that the Roman Catholic today, pray for true revelation, and listen to the Word of God in the scriptures. Read:*Acts 17: 24-25

24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

God Bless

Brian Mason

Your pope is a self ordained pope whose name is John Calvin.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvin was a Catholic and never completely left the Catholic teachings and to this day has many followers.

 

[Crucible]

Hey! Me, too! :thumb:


No you don't. No one does. Whether you're aware of it or not, Protestants read the Bible through the lens of their chosen doctrinal traditions every bit as much as Catholics read the Bible through the lens of the Church's ancient teaching Tradition. You're certainly no exception.

Martin Luther was a Catholic monk, and when he studied the Bible..
In fact, all the Reformists were trained very well in Catholicism.

Don't you find it a bit funny that as soon as Bibles were mass produced, the Roman Church started losing influence?

 

[TulipBee]

Calvin was a Catholic and never completely left the Catholic teachings and to this day has many followers.

GT Love the Wrong Jesus
Scripture defines the gospel as the righteousness of God, the sole power for salvation, revealed in the person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 1:16, 2 Cor. 4:1-6). If someone wants to bring quantity of propositions into the topic, then I suppose that is one proposition. But this one proposition can be denied a myriad of different ways.

For instance, I can deny that God’s righteousness is the sole power for salvation by denying that Christ’s righteous death finally and forever secured the salvation of all those for whom He died. I can also deny God’s righteousness actually saves by asserting the notion that Christ’s righteous death was for everyone.

GT confesses faith in A Jesus. He does not profess faith in THE Jesus. He believes in doctrine of A Jesus who loves everyone and gave Himself to die for everyone. He does not believe the doctrine of THE Jesus who loved only His own and gave Himself to die for them alone.

GT elevates himself to the position of godhood by asserting the sovereignty of his own will. Who will ascend into heaven? he asks. I will, he answers. I will use the sovereign power of my free will to make Christ’s death count for me. Who will descend into the abyss to raise Christ from the dead? he asks. I will, he answers. I will justify Christ’s death by using the righteousness of my will to believe He died for me.

GT will say that he believes that God’s righteousness is the sole salvific power for salvation revealed in the person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, but listen to him describe his terms, and it becomes apparent he isn’t talking about the same Jesus. He describes God’s righteousness as the power for salvation only after man has first added the self-righteousness of his own will to it.

GT describes the death of Christ as a sacrifice that saves no one until someone first chooses to believe it has saved them. He describes a Jesus as the son of a god who has subjugated himself to man’s will. He professes to believe Jesus as Lord, all right. But the Jesus he professes as Lord is the wrong Jesus.

 

[TulipBee]

Martin Luther was a Catholic monk, and when he studied the Bible..
In fact, all the Reformists were trained very well in Catholicism.

Don't you find it a bit funny that as soon as Bibles were mass produced, the Roman Church started losing influence?

I use the Geneva bible at church and yet they say I follow Luther while they follow king james, darby and finney

 

[God's Truth]

GT Love the Wrong Jesus
Scripture defines the gospel as the righteousness of God, the sole power for salvation, revealed in the person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 1:16, 2 Cor. 4:1-6). If someone wants to bring quantity of propositions into the topic, then I suppose that is one proposition. But this one proposition can be denied a myriad of different ways.

For instance, I can deny that God’s righteousness is the sole power for salvation by denying that Christ’s righteous death finally and forever secured the salvation of all those for whom He died. I can also deny God’s righteousness actually saves by asserting the notion that Christ’s righteous death was for everyone.

GT confesses faith in A Jesus. He does not profess faith in THE Jesus. He believes in doctrine of A Jesus who loves everyone and gave Himself to die for everyone. He does not believe the doctrine of THE Jesus who loved only His own and gave Himself to die for them alone.

GT elevates himself to the position of godhood by asserting the sovereignty of his own will. Who will ascend into heaven? he asks. I will, he answers. I will use the sovereign power of my free will to make Christ’s death count for me. Who will descend into the abyss to raise Christ from the dead? he asks. I will, he answers. I will justify Christ’s death by using the righteousness of my will to believe He died for me.

GT will say that he believes that God’s righteousness is the sole salvific power for salvation revealed in the person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, but listen to him describe his terms, and it becomes apparent he isn’t talking about the same Jesus. He describes God’s righteousness as the power for salvation only after man has first added the self-righteousness of his own will to it.

GT describes the death of Christ as a sacrifice that saves no one until someone first chooses to believe it has saved them. He describes a Jesus as the son of a god who has subjugated himself to man’s will. He professes to believe Jesus as Lord, all right. But the Jesus he professes as Lord is the wrong Jesus.

All of Jesus' words are life.

We do not sift the words of God, every word of God is life

God tells us to believe and obey and you will be saved.

The Calvinist says, "No, I cannot believe and obey, save me first."

 

[Nihilo]

My husband overheard some Catholics at a bagel joint say what a "great mass" they had just been too. Weren't they full?

The Mass is the Church's collective prayer to the Lord, during which Catholics partake of the Lord's body and blood, just as He and Paul commanded His Church to do, in remembrance of Him.

 

[Nihilo]

One big church

Right, into which we are received upon Christian baptism (in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and within which we remain, conditioned upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (which is a gift), just as the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

 

[Nihilo]

As much as Roman Catholics want to claim that*keys*denote authority in a kingdom we have to say that is a complete & utter lie. There is not one passage of Scripture that say*keys*denote authority in a kingdom. What we know is that*keys*open & close doors. They lock or unlock the door. Thekeys, that Jesus grace all the apostles, denotes the preaching of the Gospel. When we preach the Gospel we are using the*keys*to open the door to the kingdom & inviting people in. When we fail to preach the Gospel we are in essence during the door against them.

Then to you the keys are pointless, which is no surprise, since if you thought the keys were genuine, you would have to accept the Lord's gift of the Holy See to you, because they are the only ones even claiming to be using keys.

They're also the only ones claiming to be built upon Peter.

Matthew 16:18-19 (KJV)

And in the age of "mega churches," they're also the only ones pastoring a true "mega church," with a billion members and hundreds of thousands of "satellite" campuses (Holy Catholic parishes) with hundreds of thousands of pastors, and with thousands of senior pastors ruling this church in charity.

 

[Nihilo]

Peter wrote:

1 Peter 5: 1-5 (NASB)

Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet aslording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with*humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Does that read as if Peter views himself as pope? No he speaks as a fellow pastor/elder!

The Pope is, and always has been a fellow pastor/elder (bishop).

I pray that the Roman Catholic today, pray for true revelation, and listen to the Word of God in the scriptures. Read: Acts 17: 24-25

24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

It is because of the true revelation---the Word of God in the Scriptures---that I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church mentioned in Scripture.

 

[chrysostom]

the church has over 200,000 churches
-over 100,000 schools
-over 10,000 orphanages
-over 5,000 hospitals
-over 400,000 priests
-over 1,000,000,000 catholics

 

[patrick jane]

the church has over 200,000 churches
-over 100,000 schools
-over 10,000 orphanages
-over 5,000 hospitals
-over 400,000 priests
-over 1,000,000,000 catholics

-over 10,000 child molester preists. Just think of all the lives they "touched"

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

the church has over 200,000 churches
-over 100,000 schools
-over 10,000 orphanages
-over 5,000 hospitals
-over 400,000 priests
-over 1,000,000,000 catholics

Yes, who is able to make war with the beast?

 

[TulipBee]

All of Jesus' words are life.

We do not sift the words of God, every word of God is life

God tells us to believe and obey and you will be saved.

The Calvinist says, "No, I cannot believe and obey, save me first."

All men won't ask. They won't know how til God inspires.

So if we can choose on our own accord concerning the verse you presented...

Them how do you reconcile John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

You have a clear contradiction GT.

 

[TulipBee]

Right, into which we are received upon Christian baptism (in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and within which we remain, conditioned upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (which is a gift), just as the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25, 26; Ezk.44:7, 9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved. If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?

 

[TulipBee]

Then to you the keys are pointless, which is no surprise, since if you thought the keys were genuine, you would have to accept the Lord's gift of the Holy See to you, because they are the only ones even claiming to be using keys.

They're also the only ones claiming to be built upon Peter.

Matthew 16:18-19 (KJV)

And in the age of "mega churches," they're also the only ones pastoring a true "mega church," with a billion members and hundreds of thousands of "satellite" campuses (Holy Catholic parishes) with hundreds of thousands of pastors, and with thousands of senior pastors ruling this church in charity.

"Popery is the gospel transubstantiated into the flesh and blood of Paganism,"

James Wiley--History of the Papacy

 

[TulipBee]

The Pope is, and always has been a fellow pastor/elder (bishop).
It is because of the true revelation---the Word of God in the Scriptures---that I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church mentioned in Scripture.

The church is No one's mother, and the early church looked nothing like the opulent religious mental institution of today the RCC, with it's amazing wealth and pompous rituals and vestments of silver and gold ...get real the RCC has ballooned into a religious monster that has No relation to the Word of God, but has become a god unto itself..

 

[TulipBee]

the church has over 200,000 churches
-over 100,000 schools
-over 10,000 orphanages
-over 5,000 hospitals
-over 400,000 priests
-over 1,000,000,000 catholics

Lot of boasters!
"This is what the Lord says, Let NOT the wise man boast in his wisdom" (Jer 9:23)
Do you boast of SELF, paying mere lip-service to grace? Or, do you confess AS SCRIPTURE does that you "BY grace, believe"? (Acts 18:27; Eph 2:9; 1 Tim 1:14)
May God give light

 

[Ben Masada]

GT Love the Wrong Jesus
Scripture defines the gospel as the righteousness of God, the sole power for salvation, revealed in the person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 1:16, 2 Cor. 4:1-6). If someone wants to bring quantity of propositions into the topic, then I suppose that is one proposition. But this one proposition can be denied a myriad of different ways.

I agree with you that Scriptures define the gospel as the righteousness of God but, which gospel, the gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus? The gospel of Paul was the NT. The gospel of Jesus was the Tanach. The reason for the distinction is that Paul was a Christian and Jesus was a Jew. Now, you decide the one you take as the righteousness of God: The gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus?

 

[Cruciform]

The origins of the office of pope...

Back to Post #2798.