the church
- Thread starter chrysostom
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Not wanting to battle with you STP.
When I see a crucifix, with the corpus, it reminds me of the words of Paul:
"...Christ crucified..."
"...Jesus Christ, and him crucified..."
"...proclaim the Lord’s death..."
"...Christ died for our sins..."
It doesn't make me think that He is currently being crucified, and as we've established, He is risen indeed!
Cruciform
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Post #2246
dodge
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Christians stay with scripture while RC'S stay with the traditions of men and a sinful pope.
God's Truth
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Why do you bow to statues? Your pope even has a special time for the Catholics when he crowns the statues.
God's Truth
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Why does your pope crown the statue of "baby Jesus", and incense the statues, kiss them, and bow to them?
Cruciform
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Non-Catholics stay with their particular traditions of men in interpreting the Scriptures, while Catholics stay with the ancient apostolic teaching Tradition of Christ's one historic Church.
Cruciform
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We don't. Rather, we bow before the past Saint represented by the statue or image. Get your facts straight.
QUESTION: Do you understand the concept and purpose of symbolism in general, and in religion in particular?
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Post #2269
God's Truth
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Pagans who bow to their statues, they say the same thing, they say they are bowing to who the statue represents.
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Cruciform
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Again:
QUESTION: Do you understand the concept and purpose of symbolism in general, and in religion in particular?
God's Truth
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Do you understand do not bow to the works of your hands?
Do you understand do not make a statue and bow to it.
God's Truth
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God does not tell us to bow to symbols, no matter how much you think He does.
God's Truth
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Exodus 20: 4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Make no form of anything even of anything IN HEAVEN.
Leviticus 26:1"'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the LORD your God.
A carved image is a statue.
Make no form of anything even of anything IN HEAVEN.
Leviticus 26:1"'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the LORD your God.
A carved image is a statue.
God's Truth
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2 Kings 18:1 In the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, Hezekiah son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine years. His mother’s name was Abijah daughter of Zechariah. 3 He did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, just as his father David had done. 4 He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.)
THE CATHOLICS BURN INCENSE TO THEIR STATUES!
Catholics symbolism and manner of incensing:
Incense, with its sweet-smelling perfume and high-ascending smoke, is typical of the good Christian’s prayer, which, enkindled in the heart by the fire of God’s love and exhaling the odour of Christ, rises up a pleasing offering in His sight (cf. Amalarius, “De eccles. officiis” in P.L., CV). Incensing is the act of imparting the odour of incense. The censer is held in the right hand at the height of the breast, and grasped by the chain near the cover; the left hand, holding the top of the chain, is placed on the breast. The censer is then raised upwards to the height of the eyes, given an outward motion and slightly ascending towards the object to be incensed, and at once brought back to the starting point. This constitutes a single swing. For a double swing the outward motion should be repeated, the second movement being more pronounced than the first. The dignity of the person or thing will determine whether the swing is to be single or double, and also whether one swing or more are to be given. The incense-boat is the vessel containing the incense for immediate use. It is so called from its shape. It is generally carried by the thurifer in the disengaged hand. new advent.org/cathen/07716a.htm
The Israelites burned incense to the bronze snake/the Catholic priest burns incense to the crucifix, and any relics or images of saints. If the bronze snake that Moses had made was broke into pieces because the Israelites had been burning incense to it (see 2 Kings 18:1-4), then why is it okay for the Catholic priests to bow to and incense the crucifix?
THE CATHOLICS BURN INCENSE TO THEIR STATUES!
Catholics symbolism and manner of incensing:
Incense, with its sweet-smelling perfume and high-ascending smoke, is typical of the good Christian’s prayer, which, enkindled in the heart by the fire of God’s love and exhaling the odour of Christ, rises up a pleasing offering in His sight (cf. Amalarius, “De eccles. officiis” in P.L., CV). Incensing is the act of imparting the odour of incense. The censer is held in the right hand at the height of the breast, and grasped by the chain near the cover; the left hand, holding the top of the chain, is placed on the breast. The censer is then raised upwards to the height of the eyes, given an outward motion and slightly ascending towards the object to be incensed, and at once brought back to the starting point. This constitutes a single swing. For a double swing the outward motion should be repeated, the second movement being more pronounced than the first. The dignity of the person or thing will determine whether the swing is to be single or double, and also whether one swing or more are to be given. The incense-boat is the vessel containing the incense for immediate use. It is so called from its shape. It is generally carried by the thurifer in the disengaged hand. new advent.org/cathen/07716a.htm
The Israelites burned incense to the bronze snake/the Catholic priest burns incense to the crucifix, and any relics or images of saints. If the bronze snake that Moses had made was broke into pieces because the Israelites had been burning incense to it (see 2 Kings 18:1-4), then why is it okay for the Catholic priests to bow to and incense the crucifix?
dodge
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Show me an Apostolic tradition for the idolatry that the RCC practices and promotes.
:freak: And, pagans' statues represent, what exactly?
Cruciform
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So, then, your answer is that you have no idea whatsoever what the concept and purpose of symbolism is in the context of the Christian faith. This explains why you just "can't get it" regarding many of the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church. Your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Christian sect simply hasn't provided you with the information necessary to comprehend such ideas as ritual and ceremony, even though we engage in such things all the time as human beings, and even though both have been an intricate part of Christian worship and devotion from the very beginning. You lack the proper frame of reference to accurately evaluate these issues in any productive manner.
I highly recommend the following excellent text:
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
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Don't bother quoting material without posting your source as well. Try again.