The Christ Rejectors

[beloved57]

mennosota

The reason is simple:
2 Corinthians 5
19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. 20 So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” 21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

If you dont mind me asking, to whom is the apostle making the appeal to " come back to God" I prefer the kjv "be ye reconciled to God" ?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Uh, no...

The Lake of Fire is a real place, yes, but the "fire" isn't describing actual flames. It's describing the kind of suffering those in the LoF will experience for the rest of eternity. (No, not torture, I said "suffering" for a reason)

How do you know what it is? If people are trapped in a state of inescapable suffering and through design then that's torture so don't bother with the semantics.

If they reject God all their life, it would be preferable to being forced to live with Him for the rest of eternity. And yes, "not accepting God" is the same as "rejecting God" in God's eyes.

Eh? You think people would prefer to suffer than acknowledge God? Newflash JR, we're all just fallible flesh and blood and atheists aren't choosing to reject a creator, they're just not convinced that one happens to exist. Frankly, the one portrayed by fundamentalists is hardly "love" and by the way, you are not a spokesperson for God.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Is it more loving to force someone to be with you for eternity who doesn't want to be with you, or is it more loving to send them away?

With God and without God are the only two possibilities.

God is not cruel, and will not force someone to live with Him if that person does not want to live with Him.

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So, God isn't cruel but He'll force people to live in an eternity of suffering if they don't believe on this plain of existence?

lain:

Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?

 

[JudgeRightly]

So, God isn't cruel but He'll force people to live in an eternity of suffering if they don't believe on this plain of existence?

There are only two options. Living WITH God for eternity, and living WITHOUT God for eternity.

By not choosing to live WITH God, the only other option is to live WITHOUT God.

By rejecting Him or by not accepting His existence, a person chooses the latter.

I strongly recommend (even though I know you won't) going through the kgov.com/index and listening to the shows (that are available) where Bob talks about hell and the lake of fire.

lain:

Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?

All one has to do is to look around them to see evidence for his existence.

Has it occurred to you, Arthur, that some people reject that God exists willingly, not because there's no evidence for his existence, but because they hate righteousness, and that they would be happy living apart from God even if it meant that they would suffer?

I believe I've asked you this before, but I don't remember you answering.

What causes suffering, Arthur?

 

[Arthur Brain]

There are only two options. Living WITH God for eternity, and living WITHOUT God for eternity.

By not choosing to live WITH God, the only other option is to live WITHOUT God.

By rejecting Him or by not accepting His existence, a person chooses the latter.

I strongly recommend (even though I know you won't) going through the kgov.com/index and listening to the shows (that are available) where Bob talks about hell and the lake of fire.

They are not "choosing" to do any such thing. According to you, God isn't cruel yet He'll dispatch people to an eternity of suffering if they don't happen to believe in a speck of existence on Earth. You're quite right on the latter, I'm not remotely interested in what Bob Enyart has to say about anything.

All one has to do is to look around them to see evidence for his existence.

Tell that to someone who's born into an environment where the "nearest" water supply could be fatal or a parent who has a child born with terminal cancer. If you didn't live in such a black and white little world you might "see" a bit better yourself.

Has it occurred to you, Arthur, that some people reject that God exists willingly, not because there's no evidence for his existence, but because they hate righteousness, and that they would be happy living apart from God even if it meant that they would suffer?

I believe I've asked you this before, but I don't remember you answering.

What causes suffering, Arthur?

You might as well ask as to whether a person would sooner choose to stay in a building house or would prefer to get the hell out of it. Most people aren't hedonistic psychopaths so has it occurred to you that most people who have doubts genuinely just have doubts?

What causes suffering? All sorts of things although I'm fairly sure you're going to reduce all of it to sin?

 

[JudgeRightly]

They are not "choosing" to do any such thing.

Yes, they are.

Take your "agnostics," for example.

They CHOOSE to reject the existence of God because the evidence that He exists does not convince them.

According to you, God isn't cruel

He isn't.

yet He'll dispatch people to an eternity of suffering

Because the only other alternative is to be with him for the rest of eternity. If someone rejects God (and therefore His offer of salvation), or if they accept that He exists, but reject His offer of salvation, then God cannot let them into Heaven, because they have not been forgiven of their sins, and since God cannot allow sin into His presence, He must cast them away from Him.

if they don't happen to believe in a speck of existence on Earth.

All the more reason to tell them about Him and convince as many as possible that He DOES exist, and will condemn them on Judgment Day for their sins.

You're quite right on the latter, I'm not remotely interested in what Bob Enyart has to say about anything.

lain:

Tell that to someone who's born into an environment where the "nearest" water supply could be fatal or a parent who has a child born with terminal cancer. If you didn't live in such a black and white little world you might "see" a bit better yourself.

All of that is evidence that there IS a God and that disease and death is a result of rejecting Him.

Thank you for making my case for me.

You might as well ask as to whether a person would sooner choose to stay in a building house or would prefer to get the hell out of it.

Then why doesn't everyone accept God?

I'll tell you why. It's because God is righteous, and people would rather live in their sin than be confronted with His righteousness.

Most people aren't hedonistic psychopaths

Who said anything about "hedonistic psychopaths?

I'm talking about your average joe shmoe out on the street, going about their daily lives.

so has it occurred to you that most people who have doubts genuinely just have doubts?

Then all they have to do is look.

As Scripture says:

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! - Matthew 7:7-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:7-11&version=NKJV

What causes suffering? All sorts of things although I'm fairly sure you're going to reduce all of it to sin?

That's part of it.

But what's the root cause? Do you know?

 

[JudgeRightly]

You're quite right on the latter, I'm not remotely interested in what Bob Enyart has to say about anything.

Here's the problem, by the way. You're not willing to consider things that go against your beliefs. If you were, you would ask for more information on this topic. Instead, you reject it out of hand.

It's because of this that people will go to Hell, because they aren't really that interested in God, no matter how much you claim that "they just have doubts." This, too, is rejection of God.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Wrong. There is no Book of Works. (Psalm 130:3-4)

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jesus did not come into the world to judge the world, but to provide salvation for the world.

Judgment will come later at the judgment seat of Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:10. and at the Great White Throne, Revelation 20:11.

AMEN, RP

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Some, hate the rain, yet, the rains come. Some, hate the heat of Summer, yet, the Summer comes. Some, reject the 'Gospel of the grace of God,' and, they will spend eternity in 'The Lake of Fire.' These are examples of things we have no control over. We MUST accept the 'The Will of God' in spite of our own WILL. God created everything and we MUST play by His RULES. Like it or not.

 

[Sherman]

Did the Holy Spirit teach you that your freewill is your savior?

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Sloppy debating. It's a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" type of question.

 

[jamie]

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The books (plural) were opened, not a Book of Works.

The purpose of the second resurrection is to provide an opportunity for eternal life.

The Father draws to Christ those who are ready for for eternal life.

Not everyone is ready at this time.

The second resurrection is the primary opportunity for most people.

Few are chosen for the first resurrection.

A Book of Works is not relevant. Salvation is not by works.

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment..." (Hebrews 9:27)

Those who have died once must be resurrected before they can be judged regarding works.

Salvation is not by works.

 

[Robert Pate]

If the world, in 2 Corinthians 5:18, is the universal world, then no reconciliation would be needed. But, reconciliation is needed. Thus the atonement is limited to all the elect in all the world. The call to reconciliation is only received by those whom God has chosen.
God uses his saints to spread the good news so that those, from throughout the entire world, who are chosen might hear and believe.
The only ones who shall call on the name of the Lord and be saved are the elect, chosen, person's to whom Jesus atonement is given.
RP, you cannot grasp this nor accept it, even though scripture teaches this.

If that were true then why is the word "Whosoever" used over 200 times in the New Testament?

"That WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not perish" John 3:16.

"WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

"WHOSOEVER shall confess me before men, him will I confess before my Father" Matthew 10:32.

You have a very difficult way to go that will result in your condemnation.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, they are.

Take your "agnostics," for example.

They CHOOSE to reject the existence of God because the evidence that He exists does not convince them.

Um, no, they're just people who aren't convinced of the existence of a God, that's all no matter how much spin you might wanna put on it.

He isn't.

If you believe that God has people consigned to eternal suffering with no escape then you can hardly call that altruistic.

Because the only other alternative is to be with him for the rest of eternity. If someone rejects God (and therefore His offer of salvation), or if they accept that He exists, but reject His offer of salvation, then God cannot let them into Heaven, because they have not been forgiven of their sins, and since God cannot allow sin into His presence, He must cast them away from Him.

Only according to your limited parameters of what God can/cant, must/mustn't do. Typical unthinking black and white mentality. Once again, you are not a spokesperson for God.

All the more reason to tell them about Him and convince as many as possible that He DOES exist, and will condemn them on Judgment Day for their sins.

Yay, "turn or burn" chick tract garbage. Zero to do with genuine love.

lain:

All of that is evidence that there IS a God and that disease and death is a result of rejecting Him.

Thank you for making my case for me.

What, a kid born into terminal illness or born into an environment where the only water is liable to make them ill is supposed to understand any of that? Or a parent who is torn apart by seeing their child waste away from disease is supposed to "connect the dots"?! If you think you have a case with that then it's one that's full of rocks.

:freak:

Then why doesn't everyone accept God?

I'll tell you why. It's because God is righteous, and people would rather live in their sin than be confronted with His righteousness.

Oh, that isn't arrogant or presumptive at all is it? Do you have the capacity for empathy and compassion at all or are you just a clanging cymbal?

Who said anything about "hedonistic psychopaths?

I'm talking about your average joe shmoe out on the street, going about their daily lives.

The average "joe" is just trying to navigate his/her way through life, frail flesh and blood just like you and me. You're the one on a high horse declaring why they don't believe the same as you.

Then all they have to do is look.

Yeah, then everyone would be as insightful as you and belief would be easy. One day you might understand why people don't find it as simple as that and get off that arrogant and ignorant high horse.

That's part of it.

But what's the root cause? Do you know?

No, do tell.

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Here's the problem, by the way. You're not willing to consider things that go against your beliefs. If you were, you would ask for more information on this topic. Instead, you reject it out of hand.

It's because of this that people will go to Hell, because they aren't really that interested in God, no matter how much you claim that "they just have doubts." This, too, is rejection of God.

Oh please. I don't take chick tracts seriously as they're whacked out bat crazy garbage and you should apply the same standard to yourself in order to be consistent. I'm not interested in what he has to say because I've seen plenty of what he has to say already and it's the typical fundamentalist shtick that I've encountered time and again.

 

[ok doser]

"have you stopped beating your wife yet"

yes i have


darned proud of it too :thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

Oh please. I don't take chick tracts seriously as they're whacked out bat crazy garbage and you should apply the same standard to yourself in order to be consistent. I'm not interested in what he has to say because I've seen plenty of what he has to say already and it's the typical fundamentalist shtick that I've encountered time and again.

Artie needs a foxhole in order to change his tune. :chuckle:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Artie needs a foxhole in order to change his tune. :chuckle:

What "tune"?

If you've finished chuckling at yourself, care to make some kinda point?

:AMR:

 

[glorydaz]

So, God isn't cruel but He'll force people to live in an eternity of suffering if they don't believe on this plain of existence?

lain:

Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?

By then it will be too late. Proof of your Creator is all around you, and written in your very being. Why do you ignore that?

 

[glorydaz]

What "tune"?

If you've finished chuckling at yourself, care to make some kinda point?

:AMR:

Zoom....right over your head. Which is why I chuckle at YOU.