The Christ Rejectors

[Arthur Brain]

You're not known for your ability to discern. :rotfl:

You should go talk to yourself in a mirror, oh, and I see you're back to following folk around saying "hi" a lot. How old are you again?

 

[JudgeRightly]

You should go talk to yourself in a mirror, oh, and I see you're back to following folk around saying "hi" a lot. How old are you again?

Have you no respect for your elders, such as 'OLD GM'?

@GrosnickMarowbe

 

[ok doser]

Eh, you're easily amused...

you need to learn to laugh at yourself artie


it's not all that hard - just about everybody here has learned to

 

[Arthur Brain]

That's still a rejection of God at some level, no matter how much spin you might wanna put on it.

Not in any way as how you like to describe it, it's simply honest doubt.

You keep focusing on the ones who reject God. What about the ones who love God? Wouldn't God want to protect them from those who reject Him?

Have you ever heard the phrase, "a little leaven leavens the whole lump"?

What do you suppose the average agnostic/atheist would want to do JR, ruin your paradise?

:freak:

So what is it you think God can do that I say He cannot?

Restore everything and fulfil what He wills to come about for a start.

The Bible is pretty clear on this stuff. You could even say it's black and white...

Funny, the original translators of the texts didn't find what you believe as truth to be that at all in the main.

I'm not? The Bible says Christians are to be salt and light in the world.

Preserve righteousness, and bring light to those in the darkness.

Sounds like a spokesperson to me.

Don't see much light in what you post.

Genuine love? I don't think you know anything about genuine love.

Shoulda left that sentence at "think".

The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race.Its rising is from one end of heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat. - Psalm 19:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm19:1-6&version=NKJV

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For there is no partiality with God.For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:1-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:1-16&version=NKJV

Your point?

Calling Jesus arrogant and presumptive isn't going to go well for you on Judgment Day.

Unless you're having delusions of grandeur then I wasn't doing that.

[JESUS]If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”[/JESUS] - John 3:12-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:12-21&version=NKJV

Interesting how you gloss over the part where Jesus says He didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. You should also note that judgement can still occur without an eternal hell of suffering attached.

It's not compassionate to warn people of their impending doom?

It's not empathetic to share the good news of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection which can save them from their doom?

There's nothing compassionate or empathetic about doctrines of eternal suffering full stop. Let's face it, earlier on this post you were going on about the need to be protected from those evil atheists etc. Was that compassionate or self serving?

Exactly. They haven't given much thought to their eternal future.

A lot of people just aren't sure there is one. You reckon God isn't cruel and yet you believe in one that according to your doctrine will force helpless creatures into an eternity of suffering. Annihilation makes more sense than what you promote.

Scripture is where I get my material. You might want to check it out.

Scripture doesn't teach you to be arrogant and you might wanna re-read the passage you just posted.

Exactly. But since I've read the Creator's user manual for humans, I have a better grasp on how people work than you do.

No, no you don't...

Says the person down in the mud. :mock:

Yeah, you're a real beacon of light.

It's a rejection of God, at whatever level.

God is righteous. He is just. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? When people go against Him, it harms them and those around them.

How is a baby born with cancer rejecting God?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Have you no respect for your elders, such as 'OLD GM'?

@GrosnickMarowbe

I don't respect people based on their age but who they are and how they act.

 

[ok doser]

Don't see much light in what you post.

that's 'cause you're blind artie

2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about you

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I don't respect people based on their age but who they are and how they act.

Sigh.

Lev. 19:32
1 Tim. 5:1
Prov. 20:29

AMR

 

[MennoSota]

How is a baby born with cancer rejecting God?

You ask a good question.
The freewill person cannot answer this.
However, a Reformed person, such myself, will answer as such:
All humans, regardless of age, are corrupt at conception. As with all humanity, their eternal destiny is entirely within the hands of their creator. Should God choose to graciously pardon, via the atoning sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the human will be saved. Should God, choose to judge the corrupt human justly, according to their sin nature, that human will die in their sins.
God did not choose to tell us what his choice is regarding those who die in the womb or while they are infants. We must therefore entrust their souls to God and believe his choice is good. This requires faith.
In 2 Samuel 12:22-23 we read King David's words when his infant son died: "He said, 'While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live. But, now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
This indicates a faith, on David's part, that God graciously pardoned his son.
Ultimately, however, the choice is God's and God's alone.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You ask a good question.

It's a typical response from someone who hates the God of the Bible.

The freewill person cannot answer this.

Sure we can. Watch:

Not in any way as how you like to describe it, it's simply honest doubt.

Saying it doesn't make it so, Arthur.

What do you suppose the average agnostic/atheist would want to do JR, ruin your paradise?

Whether they would want to or not, they would, because of their rejection of God.

Restore everything and fulfil what He wills to come about for a start.

Restore what? Fulfill what?

God wills that all come to repentance. Not all will. In fact MOST WON'T!

You want God to force people to love Him. But that's not possible. Love cannot be forced.

You're telling God to do the very thing you're accusing me of saying, which is to force those who hate Him to live with Him forever, which amounts to torture. It's cruel.

Funny, the original translators of the texts didn't find what you believe as truth to be that at all in the main.

No idea what you're referring to here, since you didn't provide context.

Don't see much light in what you post.

Then you're either blind or covering your eyes.

Shoulda left that sentence at "think".

Your opinion has been noted.

Your point?

Huh?

Unless you're having delusions of grandeur then I wasn't doing that.

Yeah, you were. Jesus said that people are already condemned, and going to hell. You called me arrogant for repeating what He said.

You should repent.

Interesting how you gloss over the part where Jesus says He didn't come to condemn the world but to save it.

Interesting how you gloss over the rest of the passage where He says that the world is ALREADY CONDEMNED!

You should also note that judgement can still occur without an eternal hell of suffering attached.

Oh? And how long should that punishment be? 1 year? 1,000 years? 1,000,000? A googleplex?

There's nothing compassionate or empathetic about doctrines of eternal suffering full stop.

Not what I asked, Arty. Please don't twist my words.

I asked you if it was compassionate to warn someone of their impending doom.

I asked you if it was empathetic to share the good news that Christ has a way out of that doom.

Let's face it, earlier on this post you were going on about the need to be protected from those evil atheists etc. Was that compassionate or self serving?

It was compassionate towards those who love God, because if God were to allow sin into heaven, heaven would become hell, and no one would be happy.

A lot of people just aren't sure there is one.

How do you know? Do you know their deepest thoughts?

You reckon God isn't cruel and yet you believe in one that according to your doctrine will force helpless creatures into an eternity of suffering.

That's ironic, considering that's exactly what you just said God should do, by forcing people to live with Him when they don't want to.

Annihilation makes more sense than what you promote.

Annihilation isn't possible, because man was designed to live for eternity, and in order for that to happen, man must be indestructible.

God took a risk in making man to be able to live for the rest of eternity, because He knew that there was a possibility of His creation rejecting Him. Yet He made man to be able to live for forever anyways.

How do you destroy something that was made to exist for forever, Arthur?

Scripture doesn't teach you to be arrogant and you might wanna re-read the passage you just posted.

Which one?

No, no you don't...

Huh?

Yeah, you're a real beacon of light.

I'm glad you recognize it, even though you hate the light.

How is a baby born with cancer rejecting God?

This is a loaded question.

A baby born with cancer has not rejected God. The cancer is a natural consequence of man's rebellion against God.

-------------------------------------------------

See Menno? That was an easy question to answer.

However, a Reformed person, such myself, will answer as such:

The boasting you put forth is astonishing.

All humans, regardless of age, are corrupt at conception.

Not according to Paul... Romans 7

As with all humanity, their eternal destiny is entirely within the hands of their creator. Should God choose to graciously pardon, via the atoning sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the human will be saved. Should God, choose to judge the corrupt human justly, according to their sin nature, that human will die in their sins.
God did not choose to tell us what his choice is regarding those who die in the womb or while they are infants. We must therefore entrust their souls to God and believe his choice is good. This requires faith.

All of this is baloney based on a false premise.

In 2 Samuel 12:22-23 we read King David's words when his infant son died: "He said, 'While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live. But, now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
This indicates a faith, on David's part, that God graciously pardoned his son.
Ultimately, however, the choice is God's and God's alone.

Your interpretation of that scripture is incorrect.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sigh.

Lev. 19:32
1 Tim. 5:1
Prov. 20:29

AMR

So, what, I'm supposed to respect a guy who's gone on childish little neg rep sprees, leaves silly little "Hi" notes in my inbox and has treat TOL like a Twitter account often enough?

Nope. That doesn't earn respect.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So, what, I'm supposed to respect a guy who's gone on childish little neg rep sprees, leaves silly little "Hi" notes in my inbox and has treat TOL like a Twitter account often enough?

Nope. That doesn't earn respect.

If you can't respect your elders, then how can you ever expect to respect God, who is Ancient of Days?

 

[MennoSota]

So, what, I'm supposed to respect a guy who's gone on childish little neg rep sprees, leaves silly little "Hi" notes in my inbox and has treat TOL like a Twitter account often enough?

Nope. That doesn't earn respect.

I used to have ignorant children proclaim, "I ain't gonna give respect to no one who doesn't give me respect."
I told them that with such an attitude, no one will ever respect anyone.
We choose to give respect, first, with the expectation that respect will be reciprocated.

 

[Arthur Brain]

It's a typical response from someone who hates the God of the Bible.

Pffft, no, it isn't. It's a typical response of someone who hates unthinking, unloving man made doctrines. There's a difference, a big one.

Sure we can. Watch:

Sure, let's...

Saying it doesn't make it so, Arthur.

Neither does your denying it make it false.

Whether they would want to or not, they would, because of their rejection of God.

Oh, garbage. Are you that insecure that you think people could ruin your eternal Heaven?! Also, has it occurred to you that people would no longer be "rejecting God" while alongside folk such as yourself? There's atheists I know who have more compassion than you by a long shot.

Restore what? Fulfill what?

God wills that all come to repentance. Not all will. In fact MOST WON'T!

You want God to force people to love Him. But that's not possible. Love cannot be forced.

You're telling God to do the very thing you're accusing me of saying, which is to force those who hate Him to live with Him forever, which amounts to torture. It's cruel.

I'm saying no such thing but it's typical of people like you to equate God reconciling everything with force. Love doesn't coerce, it doesn't threaten, it's more powerful than that and you're yet again reduced to the hyperbole of people "hating God". People who don't believe in one aren't hating anything. You're telling me that God can in no way keep hold of all that He creates.

No idea what you're referring to here, since you didn't provide context.

Then check out what most of the early church thought in regards to "hell". It's covered plenty enough on here.

Then you're either blind or covering your eyes.

Well no. You spout off a load of legalism on here up to the point of advocating six year old kids being executing by stabbing if you remember. You are no beacon of light on here at all.

Your opinion has been noted.

If you knew anything about genuine love you'd see just how atrocious the above is.

Huh?

You can read can't you? What's tripping you up?

Yeah, you were. Jesus said that people are already condemned, and going to hell. You called me arrogant for repeating what He said.

You should repent.

No, I wasn't but you keep thinking that if you want. If people are condemned already because of unbelief then there's some folk on here who used to be atheists...

Interesting how you gloss over the rest of the passage where He says that the world is ALREADY CONDEMNED!

So it can't be saved? That what you're saying? Interesting...

Oh? And how long should that punishment be? 1 year? 1,000 years? 1,000,000? A googleplex?

Would it have to be of eternal duration for you to consider it "just"? You say that God isn't cruel remember?

Not what I asked, Arty. Please don't twist my words.

I asked you if it was compassionate to warn someone of their impending doom.

I asked you if it was empathetic to share the good news that Christ has a way out of that doom.

I wasn't twisting your words. I told you that there's nothing compassionate about doctrines of eternal suffering full stop. Considering how you've gone on about your personal paradise being ruined by "heathen" being allowed to share in it then that pretty much said it all.

It was compassionate towards those who love God, because if God were to allow sin into heaven, heaven would become hell, and no one would be happy.

Nobody was even arguing that but it's telling that that's the conclusion you jumped to.

How do you know? Do you know their deepest thoughts?

I don't claim to know anyone's deepest thoughts but I know what it's like to be a human being and have doubts about things.

That's ironic, considering that's exactly what you just said God should do, by forcing people to live with Him when they don't want to.

It might have been ironic if that's what I'd said but I didn't. I'm not saying that God forces people to do any such thing but that constantly seems to escape you for some reason.

Annihilation isn't possible, because man was designed to live for eternity, and in order for that to happen, man must be indestructible.

Funny, death doesn't actually mean the cessation of existence but a state of being in suffering. Well, it's not funny but it's ironic that you don't take the word literally considering how much else you do...

God took a risk in making man to be able to live for the rest of eternity, because He knew that there was a possibility of His creation rejecting Him. Yet He made man to be able to live for forever anyways.

Oh, so a God who is described as love "took a risk" by creating life in such a way that there was no chance that He could keep hold of all of it. In fact, would probably lose most of it and set things up in such a way that most of it would suffer through design. That computes...except for the definition of love in the bible.

How do you destroy something that was made to exist for forever, Arthur?

How do you encourage someone to think outside of a dogmatic box and to actually think for themselves?

Which one?

The latter one you put up.

Huh?

What's tripping you up now?

I'm glad you recognize it, even though you hate the light.

You're anything but.

This is a loaded question.

A baby born with cancer has not rejected God. The cancer is a natural consequence of man's rebellion against God.

Oh, that's nice. Just bad luck for the baby then eh?

:rain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

If you can't respect your elders, then how can you ever expect to respect God, who is Ancient of Days?

So, you respect anyone that's older than you do you? I never respected Fred Phelps when he was alive so should I have done because he was an "elder"? Get a grip.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You ask a good question.
The freewill person cannot answer this.
However, a Reformed person, such myself, will answer as such:
All humans, regardless of age, are corrupt at conception. As with all humanity, their eternal destiny is entirely within the hands of their creator. Should God choose to graciously pardon, via the atoning sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the human will be saved. Should God, choose to judge the corrupt human justly, according to their sin nature, that human will die in their sins.
God did not choose to tell us what his choice is regarding those who die in the womb or while they are infants. We must therefore entrust their souls to God and believe his choice is good. This requires faith.
In 2 Samuel 12:22-23 we read King David's words when his infant son died: "He said, 'While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live. But, now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
This indicates a faith, on David's part, that God graciously pardoned his son.
Ultimately, however, the choice is God's and God's alone.

So, a non elect baby born with terminal cancer is going to "hell" then. Oh, the joys of religious doctrines...

:rain:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Nope. That doesn't earn respect.

Respect is not earned at all. Respect may be deepened or lessened. But respect is due wherein it is rightfully demanded and is to be given to all. If you are not being treated respectfully, you are not compelled to return the disrespect in kind. You are compelled to comport yourself respectfully and do have the option of withholding your respect for another via polite detachment.

AMR

 

[ok doser]

So, a non elect ...is going to "hell" ...

well, yeah

pretty much by definition

So, a non elect baby born with terminal cancer is going to "hell" then...

but what kind of a retard would think that God would send a baby born with terminal cancer to hell?

 

[Robert Pate]

well, yeah

pretty much by definition




but what kind of a retard would think that God would send a baby born with terminal cancer to hell?

A lost person that is void of the Holy Spirit and believes that God is an unjust, unmerciful tyrant.

 

[JudgeRightly]

[MENTION=10403]Arthur Brain[/MENTION]

The question is not "How could a loving God send someone to hell?"

The real question is "How could someone reject a loving God who sent His Son to die willingly for them?"

 

[Arthur Brain]

[MENTION=10403]Arthur Brain[/MENTION]

The question is not "How could a loving God send someone to hell?"

The real question is "How could someone reject a loving God who sent His Son to die willingly for them?"

As already addressed, atheists and agnostics don't believe or aren't convinced that a god exists. That applies as much to Allah as Jesus.