The Calvinist Doctrine of Total Depravity, Totally Refuted

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Lutherans DO NOT considered themselves Reformed. They consider themselves Lutherans.

Calvin and Luther were in complete agreement about justification by faith, through grace, in Christ, alone.

Luther and Calvin differed most on Christology.


Justification by faith and Calvinism don't mix. How can it be by faith when Calvinist believe it is by being predestinated? If you have been predestinated who needs faith?

Luther had never met John Calvin, probably because he had no desire to. Their doctrines conflicted.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Let's put this is the glorious frame of reference in which the Lord meant it.

Jesus makes it clear that those whom the Father gives Him will be saved.

John 6:37

And the Father apparently gave the whole world to the Son, 1 John 2:2.

Either you can't read the Bible or you don't believe the Bible. Which is it?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brought this over from the Spurgeon thread, cited by AMR, an excellent showing of the nonsense that is the doctrine of free-will.

Free-will choosing - regarding salvation in Christ - is in direct opposition to total depravity.



http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm


You need to find some scripture to quote, instead of what some man wrote. This is the problem with Calvinism, you have other writtings than the Bible. You also have other men than the apostles.
 

Brother Ducky

New member
Did you have the "Freewill" to post what you just stated? Do you have the freewill to choose what you'll eat for dinner tonight?

Most Reformed folk would not argue that there is no free will. We would argue that there are limits to free will, and in particular, without out God's monergistically working in our hearts we are totally unable to choose salvation for ourselves.
 

Brother Ducky

New member
None of you Calvinist are able come up with one scripture that says God has predestinated someone to heaven or to hell. The reason for this is because there is no scripture that says that he has.

The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible 4 times. None of the 4 words are associated with anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. it appears to me that you are desperate to believe a lie.

The words "faith" and "believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. It is about faith and believing, not predestination. You apparently cannot have faith and believe, so instead you want to believe that you have been predestinated.

Jesus said that if you don't have faith in him you will perish, John 3:16.

Let's go with Acts 13:48.

Let's assume you are correct about the work count. That is an infinite percentage more than Biblical references to the re-imputation of sins back to individuals.

Reformed folk have faith and believe. Our Biblical belief in predestination has nothing in the world about faith and belief. +
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Let's go with Acts 13:48.

Let's assume you are correct about the work count. That is an infinite percentage more than Biblical references to the re-imputation of sins back to individuals.

Reformed folk have faith and believe. Our Biblical belief in predestination has nothing in the world about faith and belief. +

It has everything to do about faith and believing.

You have introduced a false doctrine into your faith and believing that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

In doing this you have perverted the Gospel.

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world is to place yourself outside of the faith.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
It has everything to do about faith and believing.

You have introduced a false doctrine into your faith and believing that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

In doing this you have perverted the Gospel.

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world is to place yourself outside of the faith.

You don't believe the Gospel, Tulip is the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!
 

Brother Ducky

New member
It has everything to do about faith and believing.

You have introduced a false doctrine into your faith and believing that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

In doing this you have perverted the Gospel.

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world is to place yourself outside of the faith.

I see you again do not even begin to try to deal with the evidence that goes against your viewpoint.

I introduced no doctrine at all. But for kicks, were are the Gospel summaries that are used here that specifically say anything against predestination?

I would suspect that there are very few who would hold to your viewpoint of a realized universal atonement and the needed re-imputation of sin to not be universalists.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I see you again do not even begin to try to deal with the evidence that goes against your viewpoint.

I introduced no doctrine at all. But for kicks, were are the Gospel summaries that are used here that specifically say anything against predestination?

I would suspect that there are very few who would hold to your viewpoint of a realized universal atonement and the needed re-imputation of sin to not be universalists.


Wake up!

You never come back to me with scripture because you have no scripture. All that you have is the writtings of a heretic.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

The Bible also clearly teaches that God imputes sin, Romans 4:8.

Please don't answer this post if you don't have scripture to make your point.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Wake up!

You never come back to me with scripture because you have no scripture. All that you have is the writtings of a heretic.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

The Bible also clearly teaches that God imputes sin, Romans 4:8.

Please don't answer this post if you don't have scripture to make your point.

You don't believe those verses nor understand them!
 

Brother Ducky

New member
5 But to him who fdoes not work but believes on Him who justifies gthe ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also hdescribes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed iare those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

OK, Scripture.
Inputation in this passage is:
1] of righteousness
2] not sin.

Contrary to your statement, the re-imputation of sin is not taught in this passage at all. You might infer it, but that is far from "clearly taught."
 

Brother Ducky

New member
Wake up!

You never come back to me with scripture because you have no scripture. All that you have is the writtings of a heretic.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

The Bible also clearly teaches that God imputes sin, Romans 4:8.

Please don't answer this post if you don't have scripture to make your point.

Regarding the subject of the original post:

Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick. Who can understand it?

Mark 7:21-23, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

John 3:19, "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."

Romans 3:10-12, "as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."

Romans 5:6, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."

Romans 6:16-20, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Ephesians 2:1, "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins."

Ephesians 2:3, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."

1 Corinthians 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
 

Brother Ducky

New member
To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world is to place yourself outside of the faith.

For someone who holds to a realized atonement, who believes that Christ actually atoned for the sins of all, you are awfully quick to condemn an awful lot of people.
 
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