The Calvinist Doctrine of Total Depravity, Totally Refuted

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The teaching that God creates reprobates is unteachable, unbelieveable, unthinkable. Why would a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, create people that are not able to hear and believe the Gospel and be saved? Answer is, he doesn't.

In the Old Testament as well as the New Testament people are justified by faith.

"For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

What was it that Abraham believed about God? Abraham believed God's promise of a savior and was justified by faith. Salvation comes by believing that God will provide us and the world with a savior, 1 John 2:2. To not believe this is to be outside of the faith.

God does not so love the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16 and then causes or makes some to not believe. What a terrible thing to believe about God. To believe that about God means that you don't have faith in him. THEREFORE, YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Only those who believe that God is just, are justified by faith. If you believe that God is unjust, which Calvinism teaches, then you are NOT justified and are outside of the faith.

Christians are called to believe and to have faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ. It is not humanly possible to believe and have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. To believe in a God that would do such a thing as that is a false faith that will not and cannot save.

The Bible teaches... "That God is longsuffering toward us (humanity) and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

This is the God of the Bible. The God of Calvinism is a mean, unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. That is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son for the sins of the world, so that WHOSOEVER that believes in him should not perish, John 3:16.

Calvinist do not believe John 3:16. To not believe John 3:16 is to be outside of the faith.

Yes, all men are sinners. But when the Gospel is preached men can hear, believe and be saved. On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard about Jesus and his Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4. Some of those that were converted to Christ had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Paul said, So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

The entrance into heaven is by hearing and believing the Gospel, not by being predestinated. predestination makes God unjust.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
The teaching that God creates reprobates is unteachable, unbelieveable, unthinkable. Why would a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, create people that are not able to hear and believe the Gospel and be saved? Answer is, he doesn't.

In the Old Testament as well as the New Testament people are justified by faith.

"For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

What was it that Abraham believed about God? Abraham believed God's promise of a savior and was justified by faith. Salvation comes by believing that God will provide us and the world with a savior, 1 John 2:2. To not believe this is to be outside of the faith.

God does not so love the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16 and then causes or makes some to not believe. What a terrible thing to believe about God. To believe that about God means that you don't have faith in him. THEREFORE, YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Only those who believe that God is just, are justified by faith. If you believe that God is unjust, which Calvinism teaches, then you are NOT justified and are outside of the faith.

Christians are called to believe and to have faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ. It is not humanly possible to believe and have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. To believe in a God that would do such a thing as that is a false faith that will not and cannot save.

The Bible teaches... "That God is longsuffering toward us (humanity) and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

This is the God of the Bible. The God of Calvinism is a mean, unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. That is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son for the sins of the world, so that WHOSOEVER that believes in him should not perish, John 3:16.

Calvinist do not believe John 3:16. To not believe John 3:16 is to be outside of the faith.

Yes, all men are sinners. But when the Gospel is preached men can hear, believe and be saved. On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard about Jesus and his Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4. Some of those that were converted to Christ had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Paul said, So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

The entrance into heaven is by hearing and believing the Gospel, not by being predestinated. predestination makes God unjust.
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Just more of your usual stock phrases without content pertinent to the original post. Reformed folk have a number of verses which shape our views and opinions about things, such as the doctrine of Total Depravity.

Be honest with us, Mr. Pate!! Deal with the real concept and the Scriptural basis for the concept, not some shadows you like to cast.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Just more of your usual stock phrases without content pertinent to the original post. Reformed folk have a number of verses which shape our views and opinions about things, such as the doctrine of Total Depravity.

Be honest with us, Mr. Pate!! Deal with the real concept and the Scriptural basis for the concept, not some shadows you like to cast.
Click to expand...

No one is totally depraved.

The Spirit of God is in the world. No one knows what it would be like to be without the Spirit of God. Perhaps in hell there will not be the Spirit of God.

You should stop calling Calvinist "Reformed folk". The reformation that was led by Matin Luther was about justification by faith apart from the works of the law. John Calvin broke away from the Catholic church and came up with his own doctrine. It was not really a reformation.

Many in the church saw John Calvin as a heretic. Martin Luther did not associate with him because Calvins doctrine was in conflict with the Gospel and justification by faith.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The teaching that God creates reprobates is unteachable, unbelieveable, unthinkable. Why would a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, create people that are not able to hear and believe the Gospel and be saved? Answer is, he doesn't.

In the Old Testament as well as the New Testament people are justified by faith.

"For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

What was it that Abraham believed about God? Abraham believed God's promise of a savior and was justified by faith. Salvation comes by believing that God will provide us and the world with a savior, 1 John 2:2. To not believe this is to be outside of the faith.

God does not so love the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16 and then causes or makes some to not believe. What a terrible thing to believe about God. To believe that about God means that you don't have faith in him. THEREFORE, YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Only those who believe that God is just, are justified by faith. If you believe that God is unjust, which Calvinism teaches, then you are NOT justified and are outside of the faith.

Christians are called to believe and to have faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ. It is not humanly possible to believe and have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. To believe in a God that would do such a thing as that is a false faith that will not and cannot save.

The Bible teaches... "That God is longsuffering toward us (humanity) and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

This is the God of the Bible. The God of Calvinism is a mean, unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. That is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son for the sins of the world, so that WHOSOEVER that believes in him should not perish, John 3:16.

Calvinist do not believe John 3:16. To not believe John 3:16 is to be outside of the faith.

Yes, all men are sinners. But when the Gospel is preached men can hear, believe and be saved. On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard about Jesus and his Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4. Some of those that were converted to Christ had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Paul said, So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

The entrance into heaven is by hearing and believing the Gospel, not by being predestinated. predestination makes God unjust.
Click to expand...


Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, sounds like total inability/depravity to me !
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
Well, that is your basic premise for the thread. And yet you are not attempting to support it in any way.



If you mean the Roman Catholic Church I would not be surprised. If you mean the Church of Pate I am aware of that particular doctrine. Position evaluated and found lacking.
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Seems to me you're "ducking" the issue at hand.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The "Pope of Geneva" (Calvin) took advantage of his position and
was involved in the execution murders of over 50 fellow human
beings. That's history.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
Just more of your usual stock phrases without content pertinent to the original post. Reformed folk have a number of verses which shape our views and opinions about things, such as the doctrine of Total Depravity.

Be honest with us, Mr. Pate!! Deal with the real concept and the Scriptural basis for the concept, not some shadows you like to cast.
Click to expand...

Well, "Reformed folk" misinterpret/misrepresent Scriptures to
fit their "belief system." It's just another false doctrine.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
He just blames everything on God. I wonder how that will work
out for him at the judgment? He preaches a false gospel, so,
in my humble opinion, he's not a member of the Body of Christ
therefore, will be judged by his works. My opinion only?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
The "Pope of Geneva" (Calvin) took advantage of his position and
was involved in the execution murders of over 50 fellow human
beings. That's history.
Click to expand...

Any that had not been convicted of a crime??

Let's suppose that Calvin went through the streets of Geneva at night, shooting people with an M-16 in full automatic mode. While perhaps not nice, how does that affect the truth of what he said?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Seems to me you're "ducking" the issue at hand.
Click to expand...

Not sure what I am ducking. Here anyway.

The issue at hand is Pate's thesis statement, to the effect that "Total Depravity is incorrect." I believe that if he makes such a statement he should be willing and able to support his statement with scripture. My guess is that the best way for him to start with this is to refute the verses that Reformed Folk use to support Total Depravity.

Ducking nothing until Pate or others make a case for his thesis.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
Any that had not been convicted of a crime??

Let's suppose that Calvin went through the streets of Geneva at night, shooting people with an M-16 in full automatic mode. While perhaps not nice, how does that affect the truth of what he said?
Click to expand...

The fact that Calvin was involved with execution murders and
preached false doctrine as well, makes me uninterested in the
idea that he may have said it's a rainy day and was speaking
the truth, from time to time. Calvinists are willing to overlook
this murderous mans guilt, because they believe his false
doctrine.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
He just blames everything on God. I wonder how that will work
out for him at the judgment? He preaches a false gospel, so,
in my humble opinion, he's not a member of the Body of Christ
therefore, will be judged by his works. My opinion only?
Click to expand...

I would doubt if it is your opinion only. I try to not judge the eternal outcome of anyone. We do not know how God will deal with them before they face him after death.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
The fact that Calvin was involved with execution murders and
preached false doctrine as well, makes me uninterested in the
idea that he may have said it's a rainy day and was speaking
the truth, from time to time. Calvinists are willing to overlook
this murderous mans guilt, because they believe his false
doctrine.
Click to expand...

And just what are we to do about his "guilt?"
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Well, that is your basic premise for the thread. And yet you are not attempting to support it in any way.



If you mean the Roman Catholic Church I would not be surprised. If you mean the Church of Pate I am aware of that particular doctrine. Position evaluated and found lacking.
Click to expand...


On the day of Pentecost, Acts 2, the Gospel came into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Those that heard this Gospel and believed it were saved, Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4. Some of those who heard this Gospel and were saved had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:23, 36.

There is much power in the Gospel. Paul said that the Gospel is... "The power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16.

Things have not changed. People are still converted to Christ by hearing and believing the Gospel. Not by Calvinism, Not by Catholicism, but by hearing and believing the Gospel.
 
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