The Burning of Jerusalem

[Tambora]

You're still discounting Romans 11 which says otherwise.

Romans 9 - 11 must be taken in with consideration of their collective message.

This has been discussed many times here in the earlier posts.

Yeppers.

Deuteronomy 14:1-2 KJV
(1) Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
(2) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.


Leviticus 20:26 KJV
(26) And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.


B57 says "Nah".

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yeppers.

Deuteronomy 14:1-2 KJV
(1) Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
(2) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.


Leviticus 20:26 KJV
(26) And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.


B57 says "Nah".

# Who believes every word anyways?

# Calvin-tary

# Tambora crushes it with valid scripture again

# We just can't wipe the replacment theology off of this threads shoe. (Holding nose)

: D

 

[Nang]

Yeppers.

Deuteronomy 14:1-2 KJV
(1) Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
(2) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.


Leviticus 20:26 KJV
(26) And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.


B57 says "Nah".

These are promises of sanctification amidst other heathen nations; the earthly covenant given to the earthly sons of Ishmael. Holiness is not the same as receiving faith unto salvation. There is no covenant promise of grace or eternal salvation in these verses, as was given to Isaac. The sanctified and elect nation of Israel remained under the old Covenant of Works (Law), and only a remnant within were saved by the heavenly promise.

Failure to distinguish between offspring of the two sons of Abraham, confuses the two covenants which Paul reiterated clearly in Galatians 4:21-31. Ishmael was promised earthly sanctification; Isaac was promised a heavenly kingdom.

 

[Tambora]

Isaiah 45:4 KJV
(4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

[Nang]

# We just can't wipe the replacment theology off of this threads shoe. (Holding nose)

: D

There is no such thing as a valid "replacement theology."

The earthly, nation of Israel was sanctified by God to uphold His holy ordinances, which was a Gospel message of the Savior/Seed amongst all the rest of the world. A remnant of believers within called from the midst of the nation, were given faith in the heavenly promises and these represented the spiritual church body saved by believing in the Savior to come.

All in the BOC are saved; not all in the nation of Israel were saved . . so the theory the church somehow replaces mixed Israel, is invalid and wrong.

 

[beloved57]

You're still discounting Romans 11 which says otherwise.

Romans 9 - 11 must be taken in with consideration of their collective message.

This has been discussed many times here in the earlier posts.

Romans 11 isnt about Israel according the flesh, Abrahams physical descendants, how could it be since theyre not the Children of God Rom 9:8

 

[Nang]

Isaiah 45:4 KJV
(4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

This was spoken to Cyrus, a non-Jew who God prophesied and raised up to politically allow Israel to return to their homeland and to the rebuilding of earthly Jerusalem. Isaiah 44:28-45:1

Election and being instrumentally used by God, to His own glory, does not always equate with grace unto eternal salvation. God is Sovereign King who controls all earthly Kings to do His will, for the good of the remnant who love and spiritually serve Him.

 

[Tambora]

Amos 3:2 KJV
(2) You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

 

[Nang]

Amos 3:2 KJV
(2) You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

So, what does this verse tell you?

 

[steko]

This was spoken to Cyrus, a non-Jew who God prophesied and raised up to politically allow Israel to return to their homeland and to the rebuilding of earthly Jerusalem. Isaiah 44:28-45:1

Election and being instrumentally used by God, to His own glory, does not always equate with grace unto eternal salvation. God is Sovereign King who controls all earthly Kings to do His will, for the good of the remnant who love and spiritually serve Him.

Isa 45:4 was spoken concerning Cyrus for sure, but the word 'elect' in this verse is used in reference to Israel, for whose sake GOD is using Cyrus.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Isa 45:4 was spoken concerning Cyrus for sure, but the word 'elect' in this verse is used in reference to Israel, for whose sake GOD is using Cyrus.

# Steko bringing the Berean BOOM!!!

# Historicaly intended understanding

# Exigesis the right way

# Calvinists in a tissy

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So, what does this verse tell you?

# Elect

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Romans 11 isnt about Israel according the flesh, Abrahams physical descendants, how could it be since theyre not the Children of God Rom 9:8

# Romans 11:28-29 (Read without Calvin-tary)

 

[Nang]

Isa 45:4 was spoken concerning Cyrus for sure, but the word 'elect' in this verse is used in reference to Israel, for whose sake GOD is using Cyrus.

Yes, Israel is designated as being elect, and God used Cyrus to return them to their land, so the point is . . . what?

What was the purpose of the earthly election of the nation of Israel? Why did God choose them out of all the nations, under the Law? Why were they sanctified unto holiness, but they were not all promised salvation? Why, as in Amos 3:2, God promised to punish them for their iniquities?

What does any of this have to do with the BOC supposedly replacing the nation of Israel?

What in these verses, nullifies the concept of a remnant being saved amongst the sinful nation and demonstrating divine Election and saving grace unto everlasting life, as taught in Romans 11:1-7?

Reformers connect the name Israel with Isaac; the son of promise and with Abraham as being the father of all those gifted with faith. This is our definition of being in the New Covenant. One spiritual body of believers; Jews and Greeks; saved by the grace of God throughout all history.

All souls, so named "Israel," will stand justified in Christ on the last day. Romans 11:26-27

Concerning the gospel, national Israel proved to be an unfaithful enemy, but concerning the election a remnant has been saved by grace, as promised to Abraham and the fathers.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yes, Israel is designated as being elect, and God used Cyrus to return them to their land, so the point is . . . what?

What was the purpose of the earthly election of the nation of Israel? Why did God choose them out of all the nations, under the Law? Why were they sanctified unto holiness, but they were not all promised salvation? Why, as in Amos 3:2, God promised to punish them for their iniquities?

What does any of this have to do with the BOC supposedly replacing the nation of Israel?

What in these verses, nullifies the concept of a remnant being saved amongst the sinful nation and demonstrating divine Election and saving grace unto everlasting life, as taught in Romans 11:1-7?

Reformers connect the name Israel with Isaac; the son of promise and with Abraham as being the father of all those gifted with faith. This is our definition of being in the New Covenant. One spiritual body of believers; Jews and Greeks; saved by the grace of God throughout all history.

All souls, so named "Israel," will stand justified in Christ on the last day. Romans 11:26-27

Concerning the gospel, national Israel proved to be an unfaithful enemy, but concerning the election a remnant has been saved by grace, as promised to Abraham and the fathers.

You have just stated that Israel was "designated elect". You now say it's election has been invalidated. Wouldn't the idea that election is removable and temporary be a coffin nail in the Calvinists doctrine of election?

# God's promises aren't permanent?

 

[Tambora]

There is no such thing as a valid "replacement theology."

And here is the tactic of most cults ............ telling you that if you don't use the terminology they use, then you are not saying it right.
What a bunch of horse hockey!

 

[Nang]

You have just stated that Israel was "designated elect". You now say it's election has been invalidated.

I never mentioned invalidation.

The nation of Israel was elected to deliverance, promises of land, and holiness under the Law. Not wholesale salvation by grace according to a new Covenant, for those promises are reserved for the spiritual body of Jesus Christ; the faithful offspring of Abraham, who is the father of all those of faith.

Wouldn't the idea that election is removable and temporary be a coffin nail in the Calvinists doctrine of election?

Election unto sanctification is not always permanent. Such compares to earthly church attendance. Going to a visible church, that consists of saved and unsaved persons, does not guarantee heaven; it only sanctifies and identifies a soul with God's Covenant.

That is the purpose of the teaching of the olive tree in 11:15-25. The nation of Israel, through its temple ordinances, proclaimed the gospel of the incarnation of the Savior and they represented His new covenant church, but other than a believing remnant, they all remained natural branches that could be cut off, in order that Gentile branches could be grafted in with those that were saved by God. These faithful branches, as a whole tree, will be saved. This olive tree proves to be the new covenant people of God; all forever saved by His grace unto everlasting life.

God's promises to the spiritual and faithful offspring of Abraham will most certainly be kept, for it is His Holy Spirit who seals them and guarantees them everlasting life.

 

[Tambora]

You have just stated that Israel was "designated elect". You now say it's election has been invalidated. Wouldn't the idea that election is removable and temporary be a coffin nail in the Calvinists doctrine of election?

# God's promises aren't permanent?

BINGO!

 

[Nang]

And here is the tactic of most cults ............ telling you that if you don't use the terminology they use, then you are not saying it right.
What a bunch of horse hockey!

You are the accuser. You say I believe something I don't believe. You are using an unbiblical term in vain.

I am simply trying to explain to you scriptural reasons I do not consider the NT church is a replacement of the nation of Israel in God's purposes. Rather, the sanctified nation of Israel represented and foretold of the Christ and His church, through the temple ordinances & worships.

The nation of Israel was largely unfaithful, but the spiritual body of Jesus Christ (invisible church) is 100% faithful. Paul uses the title "Israel" to teach that all believers in the Savior Jesus Christ will be saved.

And I believe he uses that title, because Christ, the Son of God, is named "Israel" in Hosea 11:1 and the prophecy was fulfilled during the events of Matthew 2:13-15.

 

[Tambora]

Isa 45:4 was spoken concerning Cyrus for sure, but the word 'elect' in this verse is used in reference to Israel, for whose sake GOD is using Cyrus.

She knew that.
She was just trying to avoid the part of Israel being elect by using a bunch of filler that had nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

We all know that the elect nation in Rebekah's womb (Jacob/Israel) was elected NOT for anything good or bad they had done, but based solely on GOD's sovereign election.
In other words, unmerited.

Genesis 25:23 KJV
(23) And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.


Romans 9:10-11 KJV
(10) And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(11) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth


Israel didn't have to earn their election, nor did they have to earn the keeping of their election.