The Burning of Jerusalem

[Gurucam]

Evil.Eye.<(I)>,

Jesus' essential N.T. message to those who choose to follow Him, is :

Do not seek guidance and information, according to the Old, O.T. system which is from other humans and scriptures.

Instead abandon and transgress, if necessary, all the Old things and old approaches (scriptures, historic records and all) and seek All guidance and All information only from the Spirit of Truth which was made available to those who choose to follow Jesus after He physically left.

Of course, although every thing old were and continue to be, dead ends. Jesus did not do away with them for every one. He left those old things for the 'dead'/Satanic people who would not follow Him. They would continue to use the Old system so as to killeth and bury each other, in hell. This served Jesus' agenda which is 'let the dead bury their dead'.

He simultaneously introduced the New spirit and Spirit/Christian system for those who choose to follow Him and earn heaven. This served Jesus' other agenda which is 'follow me'.

. . . and so be it.

 

[Nang]

ROFL!

Nang thinks she's of Israel.

Romans 11:25-28 KJV​

(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​

(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​

(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.​

Blind and an enemy of the gospel, but beloved and elected.
Hmmm, maybe she is.

To which "Israel" do you refer?

National, biological, ungodly "Israel?" Romans 9:6

Or the godly, spiritual Israel, the Son of God? Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15; Isaiah 42:1-8

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

To which "Israel" do you refer?

National, biological, ungodly "Israel?" Romans 9:6

Or the godly, spiritual Israel, the Son of God? Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15; Isaiah 42:1-8

Evil.Eye.<(I)>,

Jesus' essential N.T. message to those who choose to follow Him, is :

Do not seek guidance and information, according to the Old, O.T. system which is from other humans and scriptures.

Instead abandon and transgress, if necessary, all the Old things and old approaches (scriptures, historic records and all) and seek All guidance and All information only from the Spirit of Truth which was made available to those who choose to follow Jesus after He physically left.

Of course, although every thing old were and continue to be, dead ends. Jesus did not do away with them for every one. He left those old things for the 'dead'/Satanic people who would not follow Him. They would continue to use the Old system so as to killeth and bury each other, in hell. This served Jesus' agenda which is 'let the dead bury their dead'.

He simultaneously introduced the New spirit and Spirit/Christian system for those who choose to follow Him and earn heaven. This served Jesus' other agenda which is 'follow me'.

. . . and so be it.

# Are you two relatives?

Gurucam,

I understand what you are saying, but you can't strip away the implications of God using the Jews (Semites) to bring forth his plan. He didn't bring them through thousands of years of struggle to throw away.

You are so close to the paint that you are missing the Artists entire work.

Yes.... there is a spiritual thrust that is important and imperative.... But this does not invalidate Gods promises to the Jews.

Nang,

You do realize that Calvinism commits the same mistake that Israel made and God blasted them for in scripture? Claiming elite status and reprobating the rest of the world is exactly what got nasty things written to the Jews. Jesus treats all with love and while He walked with us, He only blasted the people that exalted themselves as elect, while He reassured the ones that felt non-elect due to the elects persecution of them.

# God Forgives!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Did you answer my questions?

I will not "debate" someone who refers to a man as their "Holy Spirit" of scriptural guidance.

If you continue to have Calvins hand manipulating your mouth like a child's puppet, I'll kindly be replying with sarcasm, rebuke and hard observations that sting.

You slander the Jews because many of them reject Jesus, but you fail to note that we all have fallen short and He alone brings us through.

You think of an earthly life time, but God plans for each human span Through the Eyes of eternity.

# Human Tunnel Vision

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

To which "Israel" do you refer?

National, biological, ungodly "Israel?" Romans 9:6

Or the godly, spiritual Israel, the Son of God? Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15; Isaiah 42:1-8

One last jab at ya for now...

You have a quote that says; " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
Gordon H. Clark......

This quote suggests that knowledge and its precepts save us. This is false. There is only ONE source of salvation and He alone.

To believe the contents of our mind save us is to believe that knowledge is our savior. This is why 1st Corinthians 13 says, "though I know ALL mysteries"... you could know every aspect of God through any writing, but if you have not Love, you're sunk.

Rahab was saved because of her support of Gods people and act of kindness that placed her in severe danger.

The Good Samaritan parable said nothing of saving knowledge. It was the act of Loving kindness! Jesus is Lord of Lords, King of kings, Prophet of Prophets, God of god's and Saviour of all. The goats deny acts of kindness... they are not "theologically" separated.

Knowledge is nothing compared to the Author of all. Perhaps this is why your faith is in the knowledge of Calvin's altered writings of men that preceded him. I only desire the guidance and teachings of One Son of Man that was and is The Son of God and Rock of Israel.

This will be my tone to every word you write.

 

[Gurucam]

Evil.Eye.<(I)>,

You said: I understand what you are saying, but you can't strip away the implications of God using the Jews (Semites) to bring forth his plan. He didn't bring them through thousands of years of struggle to throw away.

Rest peacefully about your concern, above.

God will do what he will do. And God does do what He does do.

Indeed God can and will throw away most of the Jews if He so chooses. Go will do what God will do. In fact that is God's proposal. God reserved only 7000 Jews.

You are simply 'kicking against the pricks'. And deluding yourself and those who take you seriously. Worrying about and trying to change a clearly prophesied end is worthless and will only earn you premature high blood pressure. You simply have to leave some things alone, instead of having to find out, very clearly, the very unsavory truth.

Do not project unsubstantiated claims about how God will treat Jews. God will do what God will do and it does not have to conform to your idea and supposed logic.

Romans: 9 KJV N.T.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Paul's kinsmen 'according to the flesh' are his 'brothers and sisters who are 'in the flesh'. They are the Jews (not Christians)
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.

Do not project your wishful/made-up/'corruption of truth' idea on God. God has long made His position clear. He has reserved only 7000 Jews:

Romans: 11 KJV N.T.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men (Jews), who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

You said, "He didn't bring them through thousands of years of struggle to throw away."

Why would you say the above, when at the very least, God looked the other way when millions of Jews were experiencing the Holocaust. You cannot claim that God was not around. Fact is God was around and if He did not endorse the Holocaust, He certainly did not act to prevent it. Fact is, God will do what He will do and God does do what he does do. And God does not do what he does not do . . . and so be it.

Clearly God brought the Jews through a lot. However that was before God made the offering of Jesus and the New system and they (the Jews) denied, persecuted, rejected, torture and kill both Jesus and the New spirit and Spirit based Christian system;

1 Thessalonians: 2 KJV N.T.
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

At any event God reserved only 7000 Jews and He, at the very least, looked the other way when million of Jews experienced the Holocaust.

Where do you get that highly baseless and imagined idea that: God didn't bring the Jews through thousands of years of struggle to throw them away.

It seems that God did bring the Jews through thousands of years of struggle to get/reserve only 7000 chosen Jews and throw away the rest. Clearly God brought the Jews through many struggles so as to be able to identify and finally choose seven thousand good ones.

Clearly you believe that you are not foolish. However you are not backing-up that self-projected belief . . . not on this thread.

You need to separate your own made-up wishful ideas from truth. You seem to be loosing, your balance and also loosing track of reality.

Indeed it seems that God brought the Jews through a lot. However that was to ensure that they could be offered Jesus and the New covenant. Then they would be totally on their own. And indeed God offered them Jesus and the New covenant and God's obligation to them was totally paid off. That was the total end of that. Of course, the Jews totally reject God's offer of Jesus and the New covenant . . . and now all but 7000 are totally doomed.

These 7000, who God reserved, are the ones who did not reject Jesus and the New covenant.

You are attempting to make confusion and corruption of a matter that is totally 'cut and dried'. This will not change the sad end that is prophesied, in the Holy KJV N.T., for all but 7000 Jews.

It seems that all but 7000 Jews continue to be 'in the flesh' and soweth to both, the flesh and the ten commandments' in their one life time:

Hebrews: 9 King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Galatians:6 KJV N.T.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Faith is good. Hope is good. But not if faith and hope are for foolishness. Not if faith and hope are for/to dismiss and/or reverse God's New request and New commandment.

The above defines the position with Jesus and the New covenant that is anchored on the Spirit that was promised by God to Abraham and his seed.

Those Jews who reject the above and remained loyal to Moses should or might, be able to get some comfort from Moses.

Jesus when ahead to prepare a mansion in God's house, in God's kingdom of heaven, for Christians (those who follow Him).

John: 14 King James Version (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jesus did not go to prepare a place for Jews (who did not follow Him but continued to follow Moses).

It is hoped that Moses when ahead to prepared another mansion in God's house for Jews.

. . . for indeed in God's house there are many mansions and Jesus went ahead to prepare just one mansion for Christians.

 

[Nang]

One last jab at ya for now...

You have a quote that says; " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
Gordon H. Clark......

This quote suggests that knowledge and its precepts save us. This is false. There is only ONE source of salvation and He alone.

I agree with you that salvation does not come as the result of human rationalization. However, as you just articulated, you believe the proposition that there is "only ONE source of salvation and He alone."

Where did you receive the knowledge of the proposition that you believe alone can save a lost soul? What logic did you employ to comprehend this proposition to be true. Obviously, you do not believe in blind faith, but a reasonable, understandable truth . . right?

Persons who do not have knowledge of, or intelligence to comprehend this proposition like you, according to your premise, cannot be saved. They do not hold faith in the same truth as you do. Right? Is that not what you are saying?

That is the same thing as what I quote from Gordon Clark in my sig.

To believe the contents of our mind save us is to believe that knowledge is our savior.

Having a rational understanding of a proposition, is not the same thing as saving oneself through rationalizations. Do you know the difference between developing a rationale versus rationalizing all things (which demands experimental proofs).

This is why 1st Corinthians 13 says, "though I know ALL mysteries"... you could know every aspect of God through any writing, but if you have not Love, you're sunk.

If the propositions you base your salvation upon are not found in the Holy Scriptures, you are sunk.

Rahab was saved because of her support of Gods people and act of kindness that placed her in severe danger.

Nope. Your rationale of her actions are incorrect. You are concluding, with your human intellect, that works saved Rahab. That proposition goes against Holy Scripture which clearly teaches sinners are justified only according to faith.

The Good Samaritan parable said nothing of saving knowledge. It was the act of Loving kindness! Jesus is Lord of Lords, King of kings, Prophet of Prophets, God of god's and Saviour of all. The goats deny acts of kindness... they are not "theologically" separated.

Knowledge is nothing compared to the Author of all. Perhaps this is why your faith is in the knowledge of Calvin's altered writings of men that preceded him. I only desire the guidance and teachings of One Son of Man that was and is The Son of God and Rock of Israel.

This will be my tone to every word you write.

Salvation according to knowledge is Gnostic. Faith according to revelatory knowledge is biblical. Your arguments prove to be illogical and contradictory, giving evidence that your beliefs may not be founded on a correct (and Scriptural) proposition. And if so, you might not really be saved.

I suggest you ponder my quote a bit more, before you challenge me to a losing debate.

 

[Tambora]

To which "Israel" do you refer?

Duh.
The Israel that is an enemy to the gospel and blinded but elected and beloved of GOD.


Romans 11:28 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes

 

[Eagles Wings]

To which "Israel" do you refer?

National, biological, ungodly "Israel?" Romans 9:6

Or the godly, spiritual Israel, the Son of God? Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15; Isaiah 42:1-8

Thank you for continuing to make this distinction so clear.

 

[Tambora]

I suggest you ponder my quote a bit more, before you challenge me to a losing debate.

ROFL!

Go ahead and challenge her, Evil Eye. We'll help you expose her unbelief that GOD will indeed keep His word concerning the earthly nation of Israel.

 

[Nang]

Duh.
The Israel that is an enemy to the gospel and blinded but elected and beloved of GOD.

This describes only one "Israel."

Romans 11:28 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes

Here, Paul is describing two "Israels." A blind Israel (ungodly) and a saved remnant of Israel(godly).

This distinction was already explained by Paul in Romans 11:4-10.

The majority of the nation of Israel proved to be reprobate, and only a remnant of Israel were saved by the grace of God. Thus, the saved remnant represented the church body of Christ, which consists of saved and godly men called out of all the nations by the grace of God.

That is the godly Israel that will be totally saved as further described by Paul in Romans 11:25-28.

 

[Nang]

Thank you for continuing to make this distinction so clear.

With all the distinctions Dispies invent, they fail to see this distinction between reprobate Israel and the remnant of saved Israel. They insist all Israelites throughout history will be saved, despite the revelation that God has declared His clear purpose for blinding most of them.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I agree with you that salvation does not come as the result of human rationalization. However, as you just articulated, you believe the proposition that there is "only ONE source of salvation and He alone."

Where did you receive the knowledge of the proposition that you believe alone can save a lost soul? What logic did you employ to comprehend this proposition to be true. Obviously, you do not believe in blind faith, but a reasonable, understandable truth . . right?

Persons who do not have knowledge of, or intelligence to comprehend this proposition like you, according to your premise, cannot be saved. They do not hold faith in the same truth as you do. Right? Is that not what you are saying?

That is the same thing as what I quote from Gordon Clark in my sig.



Having a rational understanding of a proposition, is not the same thing as saving oneself through rationalizations. Do you know the difference between developing a rationale versus rationalizing all things (which demands experimental proofs).



If the propositions you base your salvation upon are not found in the Holy Scriptures, you are sunk.



Nope. Your rationale of her actions are incorrect. You are concluding, with your human intellect, that works saved Rahab. That proposition goes against Holy Scripture which clearly teaches sinners are justified only according to faith.



Salvation according to knowledge is Gnostic. Faith according to revelatory knowledge is biblical. Your arguments prove to be illogical and contradictory, giving evidence that your beliefs may not be founded on a correct (and Scriptural) proposition. And if so, you might not really be saved.

I suggest you ponder my quote a bit more, before you challenge me to a losing debate.

Nang,

Instead of being obstinate and going after every word of your post, I'm going to recognize that you showed some genuine peace making in your verbiage.

Though we disagree on Israel, I will simply say that I genuinely enjoyed reading this last post of yours.

Please don't take my kindness for weakness. I am simply complimenting the fact that you were positive in your verbiage towards me, even though we disagree over the thread topic.

Shalom

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

ROFL!

Go ahead and challenge her, Evil Eye. We'll help you expose her unbelief that GOD will indeed keep His word concerning the earthly nation of Israel.

Rotfl....

Instead of getting distracted by the side tracked verbiege over her quote, I have locked in on the reply to you about Israel. I believe we have something interesting there.

: )

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Duh.
The Israel that is an enemy to the gospel and blinded but elected and beloved of GOD.


Romans 11:28 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes

This is only one "Israel."





Here, Paul is describing two "Israels." A blind Israel (ungodly) and a saved remnant of Israel(godly).

This distinction was already explained by Paul in Romans 11:4-10.

The majority of the nation of Israel proved to be reprobate, and only a remnant of Israel were saved by the grace of God. Thus, the saved remnant represented the church body of Christ, which consists of saved and godly men called out of all the nations by the grace of God.

That is the godly Israel that will be totally saved as further described by Paul in Romans 11:25-28.

There is a "New Jerusalem", but it's final number encompasses all of humanity that is righteous by Christ's blood and hasn't "bowed down to Bale"

You cannot reassemble Paul's verbiage in Romans 11 to denote two Israels.

He has been going on in all of his Romans verbiage about how he is of Benjamin and he even speaks of his agony over his hardened brothers......


But...

He specifically says... "they are Enemies" for the gospels sake.", but beloved because of their relatives.

He is their relative and Christ as well. Paul encapsulated this with the warning that being conceited towards them could cause us to be removed from the tree.

He then explains why God does these things. As God brought Gentiles to Himself through His birth, death and resurrection, so God will bring many Jews to Himself through the Gentiles.

The when makes this clear...

He says.. "once the final number of Gentiles is received". Nang.... this is in the future, not the present. Final number of Gentiles is the last days.

This is impossible to miss. Per Paul, God will do this to further reveal God's mercy and.....

Drum roll please....

From the orthodox Jewish bible...

29 For the matnat Hashem and the kri’at Hashem are irrevocable.
30 For just as you Goyim were once without mishma’at to Hashem, but now have received chaninah (mercy, pardon) by their lack of mishma’at,
31 So also they have now been without mishma’at for your chaninah (mercy, pardon) in order that they also might receive chaninah (mercy) (Ro 9:15-16).
32 For G-d has confined all in disobedience in order that He might have chaninah (mercy) on all;
33 O the depth of the riches and the chochmah (wisdom) and da’as (knowledge) of Hashem. How unfathomable are His mishpatim and unsearchable His ways.

He has done this to save MANY by revealing His merciful nature!

He had mercy to the Goyim (Gentiles) and He will turn around and have mercy on the TRUE elect.

The Jews. Why is it so important to make yourself "elect"? They are elect and look what it has brought them... thousands of years of pain!

God has a plan to Save more than we can fathom and Paul explains that the turning of the hardened Jews will be another curve ball. Why do they exist? Paul specifically says they exist so God can further show his mercy.

His mercy knows NO bounds!!!!!

Why is it so hard to give the elect their due? They are literal Israel and Paul was specifically referring to them.

The only verbiage that says otherwise is in extra biblical writings. Which, for history is good, but not a concern in these matters. Scripture is emphatically clear!

 

[Tambora]

Here, Paul is describing two "Israels." A blind Israel (ungodly) and a saved remnant of Israel(godly).

Ummm, it is the blind Israel that is an enemy of the gospel and yet elected and beloved by GOD.

Need I remind you that GOD says He does not bless them for their sake (because they ARE a backbitting and backsliding people), but that He would bless them and save them for HIS OWN HOLY NAME'S SAKE.

Ezekiel 36:21-36 KJV​

(21) But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.​

(22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.​

(23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.​

(24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.​

(25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.​

(26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.​

(27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.​

(28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.​

(29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.​

(30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.​

(31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.​

(32) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.​

(33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.​

(34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.​

(35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.​

(36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.​

GOD will most definitely keep His oath to the earthly nation of Israel, despite their unrighteousness because GOD's oath does not depend on their actions, but HIS word alone.
Quit trying to destroy the grace of GOD to His nation of Israel into some sort of 'merited' favor that they must earn (which is not grace at all).

 

[Tambora]

You cannot reassemble Paul's verbiage in Romans 11 to denote two Israels.

Correct.
Even the verse in Romans is speaking of an inner Israel (the faithful) within the whole of Israel (faithful and unfaithful).
It's not some new Israel, but the same Israel it has always been that has both faithful and unfaithful within it.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Ummm, it is the blind Israel that is an enemy of the gospel and yet elected and beloved by GOD.

Need I remind you that GOD says He does not bless them for their sake (because they ARE a backbitting and backsliding people), but that He would bless them and save them for HIS OWN HOLY NAME'S SAKE.

Ezekiel 36:21-36 KJV​

(21) But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.​

(22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.​

(23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.​

(24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.​

(25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.​

(26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.​

(27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.​

(28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.​

(29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.​

(30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.​

(31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.​

(32) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.​

(33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.​

(34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.​

(35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.​

(36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.​

GOD will most definitely keep His oath to the earthly nation of Israel, despite their unrighteousness because GOD's oath does not depend on their actions, but HIS word alone.
Quit trying to destroy the grace of GOD to His nation of Israel into some sort of 'merited' favor that they must earn (which is not grace at all).

Wow!!!! Powerful!! When the OT and NT are chained together like that, what else is there to say! Awesome quote, Tambora!

When linked to Romans 11 and Paul... "A Pharisee of Pharisees", who had the entire OT memorized.. the meaning of Romans 11 is unquestionable.

# Disclaimer... Questioning will occur, but it's logic will be based on unscriptural rhetoric

# Sola Scripture my tookas... thanks for writing prolifically, John Calvin (Sarcastic tone towards Calvin)

# High Calvinism is learned in Colorado

# Because they're high as hippies at a greatful dead concert!

# Leagalized marijuana reference

# Not knocking the Greatful dead... or hippies....

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Correct.
Even the verse in Romans is speaking of an inner Israel (the faithful) within the whole of Israel (faithful and unfaithful).
It's not some new Israel, but the same Israel it has always been that has both faithful and unfaithful within it.

Tambora,

Well put! That compliments the scripture, but simply emphasizes its original, historical thrust!

 

[Nang]

There is a "New Jerusalem", but it's final number encompasses all of humanity that is righteous by Christ's blood and hasn't "bowed down to Bale"

Yes. There is the earthly city of Jerusalem and the heavenly city called "New Jerusalem." Two distinct descriptions. One ungodly, the second godly.

That is the same as descriptions of Israel. Those cast off by God for unfaithfullness are the earthly, ungodly Israel. Those called to faith and salvation by the grace of God, are the redeemed and godly Israel.

Same thing with God's Covenant with mankind. The first (old) Covenant was one of works which does not save, and the second (New) is the Covenant of Grace that gives everlasting life to all the faithful and elect church body of Jesus Christ; Jew & Gentile.

You cannot reassemble Paul's verbiage in Romans 11 to denote two Israels.

There is one national Israel, but four definitions of "Israel." l. God's Son is named "Israel." Hosea 11:1, Matthew 2:15 2. The northern tribes of Israel were distinct from the tribes of Judah. 3. The ungodly citizens of Israel are distinguished from the remnant of faithful souls saved out of the nation. 4. Israel is the spiritual body of believers who abide by faith in Jesus Christ; the church of God; the New Jerusalem.

Galatians 4:21-31 reveals these descriptions and distinctions of the significance of Israel in the purposes of God.

He specifically says... "they are Enemies" for the gospels sake.", but beloved because of their relatives.

God's enemies are not beloved. Ungodly souls are reprobate. Only the Elect in Christ are beloved by God, through Him.

He then explains why God does these things. As God brought Gentiles to Himself through His birth, death and resurrection, so God will bring many Jews to Himself through the Gentiles.

Agreed. Many, but not all . . .

He has done this to save MANY by revealing His merciful nature!

Agreed. MANY, but not all . . .

He had mercy to the Goyim (Gentiles) and He will turn around and have mercy on the TRUE elect.

Exactly.

The Jews. Why is it so important to make yourself "elect"? They are elect and look what it has brought them... thousands of years of pain!

The Jewish election was temporal and national. Out of all the nations, the Jews were chosen by God to represent the Covenant promises of a Saviour. They were not elect unto salvation, for most of the nation of Jews proved to be reprobate and unfaithful to God, for they did not believe His promises. The nation of Israel suffered because of their sins and unbelief, not because they were elected to handle the holy ordinances amongst all the nations.

None of the remnant of Jews, saved by the grace of God, were cast away or rejected. They were reconciled to God according to election unto everlasting life, and gifted with belief in the promises of the Saviour. Romans 11:4-8