desiringGod7
New member
Exactly
Speaking in Tongues a Stupid Practice and Probably "Annoys God."
- Thread starter Traditio
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desiringGod7
New member
..yet he would rather speak 5 words using his mind, so that he could actually instruct and edify other Christians, than 10,000 words in tongues.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Paul had to speak in many foreign languages....he was the Apostle to the Gentiles after all.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, in the church, in public, but in private, I Corinthians 14:18
desiringGod7
New member
..yes, and I quoted 1 Corinthians 14:19, and in context or SHOULD help you to keep things in perspective.
To do this at home is one thing, but when a church full of people are all doing so at once, and it is celebrated as some sort of super-spurituality.. this is the problem. When people are treated as unsaved, or somehow less Christian, because of their "lack of the spirit".. this is the problem.
I already mentioned this here. In some churches, or denominations, if you're not speaking in tongues or healing achey knees you don't "have the Spirit", and most likely aren't saved.
Paul would absoluely be against this. He most certainly did not teach that every Christian would recieve each of the "gifts" he wrote about. He wrote against this idea, though that is obviously ignored by these churches.
Paul was ALWAYS more concerned about the FRUIT of the Spirit than the gifts -- there is a HUGE difference. And the FRUIT is what our Lord Himself was concerned about. If only modern Christians cared about such things..
As you haven't supplied anything but opinion, I see no reason to provide you with anything that you will only reject or equivocate on. IMO anyone who KNOWS God's Word knows what it says.
Your obvious vehemence and bias towards the works of the Holy Spirit is not much different than what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12
I don't think so...NOT even close.
Scripture holds ALL the answers but unless you can properly exegete them, you don't know them. Equivocators hate to commit themselves to scriptures, which is why, like you, they post them without any input as to what is actually there.
It has become more than evident in my posts with you, that I believe and can support that belief whereas you just opine with any knowledge.
Yep, you got it. It is as plain as day. You're lost at understanding them cause you haven't yet been regenerated . The facts narrated in Acts necessitate the interpretation of the phrase “to speak with other tongues” to mean to speak with foreign languages. That what was spoken with tongues was intelligible to those who understood foreign languages, as appears from Acts 2:11. Therefore the speaking was not an incoherent, unintelligible rhapsody like oatmeal babbles.
iamaberean
New member
I did a word search on 'gift' at one point. I found that there is a difference between 'gift' and 'gifts'. The gifts(plural) are for the edification of the church, those that have been born again.
The 'gift'(singular) is clearly eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The evidence of receiving the gift (eternal life) is speaking in tongues.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
This is why faith is so important in being saved.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Translation: "I have no evidence for my silly beliefs to which I irrationally cling despite having no sound reasons to do so." As you were. :idunno:
desiringGod7
New member
..any word study (done by you, in this manner) would lead you to the same conclusion, because that's what you want it to say. But where in Acts does it say that tongues are THE proof of conversion, that will occur at EVERY conversion? It doesn't. The NT does offer some proofs of conversion (1 John, for example), but tongues are most definitely not one of them.
Two places, it mentions speaking in tongues at conversion. For every conversion where something the translators call "speaking in tongues" occurs, there are MANY others where nothing of the sort happens. So, in your mind, these are not real conversions? If it were the one sure proof of conversion, wouldn't God tell us? Wouldn't the writers include the tongues being spoken in every conversion? If that were the case, they would be.. But it's not.
Pentecostals refuse to deal with this. They cling to the two mentions of this behaviour, which were actually occurances of xenoglossy, not glossolalia (big difference), and ignore everything else. They seem to totally ignore Jesus's teaching on prayer in Matthew 6, especially where he opposes the certain Gentile method of praying which many believe to be exactly what you practice.
I imagine its because It makes them feel good in some way while they practice it, even if it's just the pride they feel from being so super "spiritual".
I've explained my opposition to this.. Tongue speakers will claim someone isn't saved, or "doesnt have the spirit" because they know they can't honestly do this and claim it is of God. They would have you think they're some kind of super-Christian, totally filled with the Spirit, but they're just playing pretend..
I have a bible with the 1st letter of Paul to the Corinthians, I can read what Paul said. Nothing he says amounts to a prohibition on the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
"If any speak in a tongue let it be only two or three at most and let one interpret. But if no-one is there to interpret let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.
Let two or three prophets speak and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting by let the first be silent...for you can all prophesy one by one. So that ALL may learn and ALL be encouraged."
What a church eh? no wonder they turned the world upside down. Everybody participates here.
desiringGod7
New member
Nowhere did I say he prohibited it.. I simply quoted his own words on the matter. And the words you just quoted show that he would be against a whole church full of people rambling on "in tongues" at once, with no goal accept the "feel goods" they may get from it..
Interplanner
Well-known member
To all:
please remember the true purpose was a sign to unbelieving Jews that God's mission really was the message of Christ and to go the nations. That's why there are unbelieving Jews observing this happen and seeing the impact on Gentiles.
Whatever was going on at Corinth is a subjective abberation of this, and even then, Paul still tells them and quotes to them why it was happening.
The reason it would end would be that there were fewer and fewer unbelieving Jews who would need to shown that.
please remember the true purpose was a sign to unbelieving Jews that God's mission really was the message of Christ and to go the nations. That's why there are unbelieving Jews observing this happen and seeing the impact on Gentiles.
Whatever was going on at Corinth is a subjective abberation of this, and even then, Paul still tells them and quotes to them why it was happening.
The reason it would end would be that there were fewer and fewer unbelieving Jews who would need to shown that.
I just don't cast pearls before swine, bu7t feel free to prove you fallacious assertions. :loser:
desiringGod7
New member
..also, I've never witnessed anybody interpreting the "tongues" being spoken these days.. Why?.. because the sounds mean nothing. Why do you think Paul wanted interpreters if there were people speaking in tongues? To ensure that if it was happening, it was authentic, and useful (edifying), and to keep people from the meaningless babbling the pagans practiced long before Charismatic Christians ever did.
Like I said before, the event on the first pentecost, the "speaking in tongues" was the phenomenon known as "xenoglossy", not the meaningless pagan practice of glossolalia that charismatics practice today. If you don't know the difference, look it up, because it's important to this conversation..
Also important, glossalalia actually puts one in a mindset that is not conductive to Christian prayer or worship.
Again, try to understand.. My problem isn't that people practice it privately in prayer or worship. I don't believe at all that it's authentic, but that's not the issue.
The problem is, there are churches that ultimately turn salvation into whether or not you have been "filled with the Spirit" and received the ability to speak in tongues. It's a strange form of works righteousness when it comes down to it, but they don't see it that way.. Instead of looking to Christ for salvation, they have people looking in themselves to see if the "tongues" they're forcing out are "real" or "of the spirit. The church passes out pamphlets teaching them to do something that is supposedly a "gift of the Spirit".
There are so many true Christians who are spiritually starving to death in the very churches that are supposedly "spirit-filled", because they're not being fed what they need, which is the truth, the Gospel of Christ.
Let me apologize now, I know that I have probably come off as rude, or condescending.. I don't mean to.. It's just that I started my Christian walk in this kind of environment and have witnessed these things first hand, and it breaks my heart to know there are others where I once was with this..
I honestly, truly, speak out against this out of love for my brothers and sisters who are caught in this, thinking that God must not love them because they haven't recieved this certain gift.. But I am passionate about this, so it gets hard to keep emotions in check.
Just search yourselves. Search the Word. Search for the Truth. Seek Jesus, seek Him first, and above His gifts.
Why would anything that is attributed to being of God be stupid?
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's why Paul reminds them what the purpose was. It was not needed, or very little.
there were some Jews there. Jews were all over the Med basin and rim cities. Otherwise there wouldn't be issues like ch 8 about foods, etc.
Interplanner
Well-known member
1, when the attributing is inaccurate
2, when the true purpose of the thing or feature or phenomenon has been explained elsewhere and is not being done correctly