Speaking in Tongues a Stupid Practice and Probably "Annoys God."

[RBBI]

Rejecting the notion of people speaking in tongues is not 'blasphemy of the Spirit'. Speaking in tongues largely went out in the 1st centuries and was resurrected by modern, charismatic eccentricity.

If you aren't going through Stigmata or otherwise a profound miracle, don't tell me I'm essentially going to Hell for not believing that a bunch of oddballs are speaking in tongues.

Odd that none of the first century Christians reported having stigmatas. Hmm. Wonder why that is. :devil:

I've had several profound miracles, but tongues is not technically what I would classify a miracle, since it's for EVERY believer.

And I didn't say you were going to hell. I said you were close to blasphemy, since tongues is the Spirit praying through an individual. Your saving grace is, you don't know it, and we're only held accountable for what we know, and that by the Spirit. Should you humble yourself to receive, you won't be able to beg for mercy fast enough. Peace

 

[Psalmist]

Check all you want. It didn't cease, it says the gift is to all those the Lord shall call, even to those that are afar off. You're called, aren't you???

As further proof it didn't, that would mean there that HaShem is a respecter of persons, having parts of covenant for the first century Christians, and less for us. He's not.

Ignorance, unbelief, fear, unforgiveness, and pride. These are what stop tongues from manifesting; not that it "ceased". Peace

Hey you, RBB!, did I say it ceased? No. I believe it has not ceased, but it will at some point when that which is in part will become fully know, there are somethings that are mystery, tongues, tongues and the interpretation and will remain that way until the He thinks it is time for the mystery to be revealed.

I'm going to do some further checking on the matter of this has to do to see who else says that it ceased.​

 

[RBBI]

You have only Paul's word about speaking in tongue.

Besides, they were all speaking understandable language, not gibberish.

There were all kinds of miracles practiced by NT times. Speaking understandable foreign language was one of them.

Now see, this is one of the assumptions people make that have no clue as to what was really happening in Acts 2 because they themselves have never experienced it, yet they feel they qualify as teachers to those of us who have.

The language was not understandable with the human minds of those present. Scholars have said there probably was 18 different countries present that day since there were Jews there from all nations to obey the commandment to assemble in Jerusalem on Pentecost.

That means, for them to exclaim they all understood it in THEIR OWN language, NOT 18 languages were being spoken, but rather they all received the gift of interpretation by the Spirit, at the same time the others speaking, received tongues, and so BY THE SPIRIT, they all were able to SPIRITUALLY hear the translation of what was spoken in a heavenly (and thus unknown to them) SINGLE language. And so, it was a TWO PART miracle or sorts, both speaking AND hearing taking place.

As someone who has experienced both, you hear with your natural ears whatever syllables are being spoken, but you hear with the spiritual ear, the translation.

See, HaShem was tired of the priests (only they had the scrolls) keeping the truth to themselves and speaking whatever they preferred to, to the masses.

As a matter of fact, He's pretty tired of the same thing going on today, as the pastors give THEIR interpretation of what He means, oft times because their interpretation equates to self gain for them (vain glory spirit).

You know, things like, "God said to give me 8 million dollars or I'm going to die", or "God said if you don't tithe 100 dollars today you're going to miss your blessing." Whereas it's seriously unlikely God said any of it, particularly since they conveniently forget to mention that the tithe was OT and it was AGRICULTURAL. But you know how it is when you want that bigger building, bigger parking lot, more programs, ect., having also forgotten the oil is supposed to flow from the HEAD down to the FEET, not the other way around. But I digress....Peace

 

[RBBI]

Hey you, RBB!, did I say it ceased? No. I believe it has not ceased, but it will at some point when that which is in part will become fully know, there are somethings that are mystery, tongues, tongues and the interpretation and will remain that way until the He thinks it is time for the mystery to be revealed.

I'm going to do some further checking on the matter of this has to do to see who else says that it ceased.​

Ok, my apology if I misunderstood you.....carry on.....

 

[False Prophet]

Speaking in tongues should be followed by an interpretation.

 

[RBBI]

Once again, that is erroneous, and it's obvious you don't have it, or you would know how it works, so why attempt to teach what you do not know? Don't you realize you are held accountable for what you teach?

The GIFT OF TONGUES AND INTERPRETATION is when an interpretation follows. A prayer language is given to all who will humble themselves to receive it, it's a free gift and part of the covenant. No interpretation is needed because that is the PRIVATE gift, while the other one, is the PUBLIC gift.

How exactly do you think He accomplishes: you need not that any man should teach you, but the SPIRIT shall teach you and lead you into all truth? Your spirit is released to flow out of you, instead of being welled up inside you, and it is a sure sign that He is risen!

His body is not dead, it speaks, teaches, walks over high places, prays, heals, hears and works. This is why it says the Holy Ghost does the works. THESE ARE the works. Peace

 

[Interplanner]

This entire question has to do with the mission to the nations by former members of Judaism. It was the sign to them that the mission was for real, had a compelling message in Christ, etc. That's why when the tongues events happen in Acts, it is the notice of this to members of Judaism that matters so much. And why Paul quote Isaiah about it in I cor 14.

There was some more self-absorbed experience going on at Corinth , and Paul didn't think much of it. It was subjective. He tried to get them back to the thing which it demonstrates to Jews about the mission of the Gospel to the nations. It 'undoes' what happened at Babel where the nations were closed off from each other by God due to a self-worshipping mindset. The Gospel comes and is 'broadcast' by God in all languages because it honors and glorifies Christ.

 

[RBBI]

What the men said they heard was the Spirit exalting HaShem. This is how we are to test the spirits, because the spirit always exalts the one who sent it. In this case, HaShem. And as Cornelius proved, it didn't have a thing to do with the Jews only, the gifts are given to ALL men under the covenant. His Spirit being poured out on the gentiles, was in fact, HOW they knew that the gentiles had been included, which is stated.

HaShem stopped what was happening at Babel, because it was trying to ascend via works of flesh. This is why the Holy Ghost does the works today, as Yeshua came to reverse all the curses, including the one at Babel.

What Paul was trying to do, was bring order to a body that had received gifts and didn't yet understand order, particularly the women, who were always muzzled before. They now discovered via the Spirit and the speaking gifts, that they too could speak in assembly and had a purpose, and no doubt were over the top with their newfound status.

What they couldn't do was all speak at once, and they no doubt had the same confusion over what was their prayer language and what was the gift of tongues WITH interpretation, which is why Paul goes to such lengths to explain it.

There is not one covenant for first century Christians and one for us. There is not one covenant for first century Jews and another for gentiles. God is no respecter of persons. Peace

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

What the men said they heard was the Spirit exalting HaShem. This is how we are to test the spirits, because the spirit always exalts the one who sent it. In this case, HaShem. And as Cornelius proved, it didn't have a thing to do with the Jews only, the gifts are given to ALL men under the covenant. His Spirit being poured out on the gentiles, was in fact, HOW they knew that the gentiles had been included, which is stated.

HaShem stopped what was happening at Babel, because it was trying to ascend via works of flesh. This is why the Holy Ghost does the works today, as Yeshua came to reverse all the curses, including the one at Babel.

What Paul was trying to do, was bring order to a body that had received gifts and didn't yet understand order, particularly the women, who were always muzzled before. They now discovered via the Spirit and the speaking gifts, that they too could speak in assembly and had a purpose, and no doubt were over the top with their newfound status.

What they couldn't do was all speak at once, and they no doubt had the same confusion over what was their prayer language and what was the gift of tongues WITH interpretation, which is why Paul goes to such lengths to explain it.

There is not one covenant for first century Christians and one for us. There is not one covenant for first century Jews and another for gentiles. God is no respecter of persons. Peace

My friend, tongues are not for all believers.

The glaring omission in your posts is, what is to be done when the whole congregation is assembled.

That being Prophecy, tongues, interpretation, and women keeping silent.

Now keep still one more moment and let make clear why part of your posts are true.

There should be one church in small towns, there should be one church in every numbered neighborhood in a big city.

I know of no such place where the whole congregation in a specific region assembles together, do you?


What passes for congregations are merely small separated segments of neighbors.


While these meetings are alright, for in them one person may lead, women may speak, tongue talking, interpretations , prophecy is done.

A steady diet of these meetings, while forsaking the assembly of the whole believing neighborhood, is exactly what we are not to be doing.


I'm gonna stop right here and let this sink in awhile.

If any man be spiritual let him acknowledge these things are the commandments of the Lord.


Even though the Corinthians were carnal and dividing into factions, the whole congregation were still assembling.


I'd say that that was a purdy big one, as Jesus told Paul, don't be afraid for I have much people in this city.

 

[Interplanner]

who is HaShem?

 

[Interplanner]

My friend, tongues are not for all believers.

The glaring omission in your posts is, what is to be done when the whole congregation is assembled.


Prophecy, tongues, interpretation, and women keeping silent.

Now keep still one more moment and let make clear why part of your posts are true.

There should be one church in small towns, there should be one church in every numbered neighborhood in a big city.

I know of no such place where the whole congregation in a specific region assembles together, do you?


What passes for congregations are merely small separated segments of neighbors.


While these meetings are alright, for in them one person may lead, women may speak, tongue talking, interpretations , prophecy is done.


However a steady diet of these meetings, while forsaking the assembly of the whole believing neighborhood, is exactly what we are not to be doing.


I'm gonna stop right here and let this sink in awhile.

If any man be spiritual let him acknowledge these things are the commandments of the Lord.


Even though the Corinthians were carnal and dividing into factions, the whole congregation were still assembling.


I'd say that that was a purdy big one, as Jesus told Paul, don't be afraid for I have much people in this city.

the only reason for the tongues of Acts was to show to followers of Judaism that the Messianic mission and message had started. The subjective thing going on at Corinth was a one-off and Paul did try to get them back to the view of the Isaiah passage that he quoted there, which is about the Messianic gospel going to the nations through people like him.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

the only reason for the tongues of Acts was to show to followers of Judaism that the Messianic mission and message had started. The subjective thing going on at Corinth was a one-off and Paul did try to get them back to the view of the Isaiah passage that he quoted there, which is about the Messianic gospel going to the nations through people like him.

Yes, tongues were for a sign.

However that was not the only reason for them.

I'd say the words spoken in them tongues, um hum, cough, the actual message was a very real reason.

 

[patrick jane]

Yes, tongues were for a sign.

However that was not the only reason for them.

I'd say the words spoken in them tongues, um hum, cough, the actual message was a very real reason.

tongue thrashing

 

[RBBI]

My friend, tongues are not for all believers.

The glaring omission in your posts is, what is to be done when the whole congregation is assembled.

That being Prophecy, tongues, interpretation, and women keeping silent.

Now keep still one more moment and let make clear why part of your posts are true.

There should be one church in small towns, there should be one church in every numbered neighborhood in a big city.

I know of no such place where the whole congregation in a specific region assembles together, do you?


What passes for congregations are merely small separated segments of neighbors.


While these meetings are alright, for in them one person may lead, women may speak, tongue talking, interpretations , prophecy is done.

A steady diet of these meetings, while forsaking the assembly of the whole believing neighborhood, is exactly what we are not to be doing.


I'm gonna stop right here and let this sink in awhile.

If any man be spiritual let him acknowledge these things are the commandments of the Lord.


Even though the Corinthians were carnal and dividing into factions, the whole congregation were still assembling.


I'd say that that was a purdy big one, as Jesus told Paul, don't be afraid for I have much people in this city.

I don't see any glaring omission, we were discussing the speaking gifts primarily. And yes, my friend, tongues are part of the covenant, and as such they are for whosoever is part of His body, which is SPIRIT. He is not dumb, He speaks.

Now I hope I'm understanding your point here, because it's a foreign concept to me. What passes for congregations ARE congregations as long as Yeshua is in the individuals, they are part of His body, a SPIRITUAL work, that has nothing to do with fleshly numbers in a single location.

What you have in all towns and cities is what you have the world over: two many-membered bodies, one Adam, one the Seed, the son of HaShem.

Remember we have a sure witness which was not tampered with by men because they didn't know what it revealed, ie. the Tabernacle of Moses. So let's compare the pattern to the spiritual, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things, as Hebrews 9 tells us it is the pattern of the heavenly, or spiritual things. Truly they shall have no excuse.

On the day of atonement a ram was to be taken for sacrifice. It was to be cut up into pieces at the joints (not a bone of His was broken), and then the skin was removed. It was then to be put on the altar, the HEAD which left the body first, also put on the altar first, and then the other pieces of the body positioned so that they did not touch, and the fire came up between the pieces.

What actually is happening when someone is baptized in the Holy Ghost which comes as TONGUES of fire, is a piece of Adam is beginning to be stripped of flesh, and "he" is added to HIS body via the baptism of fire, which is a covering.

That's what baptism IS, a covering. The fire was to be between the joints for this reason, because that which every JOINT is to supply is His love (His Spirit IS love), and no greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend, and allow the Spirit to have the preeminence.

So my friend, by saying that the baptism of fire with the accompanying witness sign of the resurrection, ie. tongues, a heavenly language (we are seated in HEAVENLY PLACES with Him via this) is not for all believers, you are saying that not all need to lay their lives on the altar, be stripped of flesh, and be consumed by the fire of His Spirit. Our HaShem is a CONSUMING FIRE, and this is how He consumes the offering, ie. US.

As for women being silent it was for the reasons I said, and spiritually the pattern is that He doesn't want anyone to speak out of their own soulish flesh, but rather BY and THROUGH His Spirit. That being said, unfortunately there are "women" speaking all the time, and they don't all have natural wombs, and someone walking in the authority of HaShem could easily tell them to be silent as well and be scripturally correct by the Spirit and not the letter.

This is the pattern and it cannot be broken and is not subject to the will nor whims of men. We are all supposed to be walking from the outer court experience into the Holy of Holies experience, and you can't get there by bypassing the inner court experience.

As for assembling, it is a necessary step in the inner court in part realm of Pentecost. Tabernacles is another subject, for there you learn that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Peace

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I don't see any glaring omission, we were discussing the speaking gifts primarily. And yes, my friend, tongues are part of the covenant, and as such they are for whosoever is part of His body, which is SPIRIT. He is not dumb, He speaks.

Now I hope I'm understanding your point here, because it's a foreign concept to me. What passes for congregations ARE congregations as long as Yeshua is in the individuals, they are part of His body, a SPIRITUAL work, that has nothing to do with fleshly numbers in a single location.

What you have in all towns and cities is what you have the world over: two many-membered bodies, one Adam, one the Seed, the son of HaShem.

Remember we have a sure witness which was not tampered with by men because they didn't know what it revealed, ie. the Tabernacle of Moses. So let's compare the pattern to the spiritual, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things, as Hebrews 9 tells us it is the pattern of the heavenly, or spiritual things. Truly they shall have no excuse.

On the day of atonement a ram was to be taken for sacrifice. It was to be cut up into pieces at the joints (not a bone of His was broken), and then the skin was removed. It was then to be put on the altar, the HEAD which left the body first, also put on the altar first, and then the other pieces of the body positioned so that they did not touch, and the fire came up between the pieces.

What actually is happening when someone is baptized in the Holy Ghost which comes as TONGUES of fire, is a piece of Adam is beginning to be stripped of flesh, and "he" is added to HIS body via the baptism of fire, which is a covering.

That's what baptism IS, a covering. The fire was to be between the joints for this reason, because that which every JOINT is to supply is His love (His Spirit IS love), and no greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend, and allow the Spirit to have the preeminence.

So my friend, by saying that the baptism of fire with the accompanying witness sign of the resurrection, ie. tongues, a heavenly language (we are seated in HEAVENLY PLACES with Him via this) is not for all believers, you are saying that not all need to lay their lives on the altar, be stripped of flesh, and be consumed by the fire of His Spirit. Our HaShem is a CONSUMING FIRE, and this is how He consumes the offering, ie. US.

As for women being silent it was for the reasons I said, and spiritually the pattern is that He doesn't want anyone to speak out of their own soulish flesh, but rather BY and THROUGH His Spirit. That being said, unfortunately there are "women" speaking all the time, and they don't all have natural wombs, and someone walking in the authority of HaShem could easily tell them to be silent as well and be scripturally correct by the Spirit and not the letter.

This is the pattern and it cannot be broken and is not subject to the will nor whims of men. We are all supposed to be walking from the outer court experience into the Holy of Holies experience, and you can't get there by bypassing the inner court experience.

As for assembling, it is a necessary step in the inner court in part realm of Pentecost. Tabernacles is another subject, for there you learn that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Peace

No, I'm not lettin' you off the hook like that.

You don't get to switch gears on me in mid stride.

The whole church being come together has rules to go by, for these customs and traditions done in the visible meeting represent what is done in the believer when his/her inner self is controlled by Christ.


An assembly following these commands edifies all the members, and unbelievers will fall on their face and declare God is in them.

Those who have experienced these things spiritually, should have no problem obeying them physically in a neighborhood assembly.

 

[RBBI]

First of all, there is no "hook" I'm trying to get off of. I think we're having a misunderstanding of words, perhaps? I don't know what your "beef" is with what I said. I THOUGHT you were saying not everyone should have tongues, as a prayer language, period. THAT is what I was defending, not the gift of tongues and interpretation's operation within an assembly, which is a public gift. See? Peace

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

First of all, there is no "hook" I'm trying to get off of. I think we're having a misunderstanding of words, perhaps? I don't know what your "beef" is with what I said. I THOUGHT you were saying not everyone should have tongues, as a prayer language, period. THAT is what I was defending, not the gift of tongues and interpretation's operation within an assembly, which is a public gift. See? Peace

I gotcha now.

I also thought you were being exclusionary.

That being said, let me throw out there how the inner man can experience the congregation.

Would it not be when Christ surrounds us with the cloud of witnesses?

Spirits of just men made perfect.


10For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12saying, "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE."…

 

[RBBI]

I gotcha now.

I also thought you were being exclusionary.

That being said, let me throw out there how the inner man can experience the congregation.

Would it not be when Christ surrounds us with the cloud of witnesses?

Spirits of just men made perfect.


10For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12saying, "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE."…

I knew we had to be talking past one another somehow. Not exclusionary, just making everything according to the pattern, bro.

Amen to your last comment. Sort of why I said in Tabernacles you learn that to be absent from the BODY (not your body) is to be present with the Lord (and His cloud of witnesses). Only one can go in at a time into the Holy of Holies. Peace