Spammers wasteland

[Interplanner]

At the same time, Danoh is famous for 'Romans-Philemon' meaning one thing! so 2P2P has twin problems: it evades the plain meaning of apostles sermons, but has a parasitic generalization about all of Paul (for ex) that is bogus.

 

[Interplanner]

We can either prove it verbatim from the revelations given through Paul, or by logical necessity derived from those revelations, used as a lens through which to view prior revelation. If you opened your closed mind to trying that honestly, just once, you MIGHT see something that surprised you.

I grew up in it. It makes no sense. It makes no sense to put a Davidic monarchy back on earth when the nation has been punished twice and Christ made it clear to Peter in the 40 days that He Himself was seed that was to sit enthroned on David's throne, which was the event of the resurrection.

The hermeneutics of 2P2P are very man-made, circuitous, resulting in the follies of multiple gospels, agendas, thrones, heavens, etc. ad nauseum.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus was, though, Hebrews 12:2 (KJV), He looked forward to "the joy that was set before Him."

And since He knew beforehand, the question is whether or not He was clear with His disciples about what was going to happen, or if He was coy, or downright deceptive?

It was clear; they didn't really absorb it; and thought he should be a monarchy king, and so blew up when he made it clear at the confession by Peter. Then there is the additional feature of it being hidden from them, because they might have attempted to prevent it.

People in 2P2P's delusion imagine that the disciples had a perfect understanding of and obedience to everything that Christ said, not mistakes like this (that show they were raised in Judaism). Yet the account is full of their mistakes in everything else. But 2P2P is invested in multiple gospels and "needs" to believe that Christ was offering a non-redemptive, cross-free gospel first and then something else later.

 

[Interplanner]

Lon, I think enough of you to always give you an honest reply, as best I can. So forgive me for cutting through all of that because I don't follow what you're saying.

However, you did ask, "Why this thread?"

Fair question. The reason is because if people believe that those before the Cross were indeed "looking forward to the Cross," meaning they knew what was going to happen and why it would happen (the Bible says they didn't yet it's a common misbelief everywhere that they did), then it's a tiny leap to the "only one gospel in the NT" belief that plagues not only TOL but all of Christendom. In fact, their position DEMANDS there be only one gospel. But their position is dead wrong.

That's why this thread.



Lon...it says it was HIDDEN from them, and later had to have their eyes opened to it. Let's make that our starting point and go from there.

But more important: it doesn't say it was hidden until after the outburst by Peter. Ie, God had to protect the Gospel event from them; they might have ruined it, prevented it, thwarted it. This is similar to Jn 6 when they wanted to take him BY FORCE and make him a monarchy king.

It matters because the delusion of 2P2P is that there was another gospel in the first half of the ministry years. (This does not work at all in John but these guys think it works in the synoptics). Jerry, for ex., says it's kingdom offer until the confession of Peter and then the death for sins is hidden because of the outburst of Peter.

 

[Nang]

But more important: it doesn't say it was hidden until after the outburst by Peter. Ie, God had to protect the Gospel event from them; they might have ruined it, prevented it, thwarted it. This is similar to Jn 6 when they wanted to take him BY FORCE and make him a monarchy king.

It matters because the delusion of 2P2P is that there was another gospel in the first half of the ministry years. (This does not work at all in John but these guys think it works in the synoptics). Jerry, for ex., says it's kingdom offer until the confession of Peter and then the death for sins is hidden because of the outburst of Peter.

I think it is a mistake for us to deny that some O.T. souls were given insight into the sufferings of the promised Savior. Who are we to know?

It is obvious from the N.T. Scriptures that the truths of Christ were hidden from the majority of the Jewish people, for the reasons you point out, but the bible also teaches that God always had a remnant of faithful believers within the nation, who understood the promises and all the significance of the tabernacle/temple ordinances that pointed to the future accomplishments of God's Christ.

Jesus Himself testifies to an elect few to whom the Gospel message was understood and believed. Abraham being one. See John 8:55-58

Yes, there is only one Gospel and it has been proclaimed and made known since first promised to Eve in Genesis 3:15. All throughout O.T. history, God has revealed that the remission of sin could only come through a blood offering; a life required for a life.

Abel believed and grasped why he was to offer blood sacrifices to God, as demonstration of his faith. All the saints listed in Hebrews Chapter 11 were part of this saved remnant called out of all the nations, including the nation of Israel . . even though no entire nation, or even an entire family was ever given full insight into the promises.

Before the Incarnation, souls waited for the fulfillment of the Covenant promise of Messiah. See Matthew 2:9-12; Luke 1:30-38, 67-79, 2:25-38 for a few examples of common folk to whom the reality of the redeeming Christ was revealed.

These believed the same Gospel N.T. Christians believe. All the saints of God have been justified alike, by faith in the Covenant promises and Covenant performance fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

MAD denies this one saving Gospel due to being deluded with false teaching, that tries to confuse Truth . . and they willingly act to propagate and add to this dispensational confusion because they do not possess a love of the Truth.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Jesus is not the Word.

Jesus is the Word made flesh.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.…
3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
...
14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Clearly Christ is the word who became flesh, who is also God.

 

[WizardofOz]

Sherman had to protect her special snowflake from having his feeling hurt

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sherman had to protect her special snowflake from having his feeling hurt

Another "USELESS" COMMENT from the "Wizard of Ooze."

 

[musterion]

Sherman had to protect her special snowflake from having his feeling hurt

You'll recall I requested she and AB not be banned over this, until she could no longer control herself and ignored the mod's warning. None of this is my fault nor the moderator's. It's Anna's, alone.

And my feelings were just fine long before she was banned (again) and will be fine from here on out. Thanks for your interest.

 

[chair]

Well, maybe this is a proof- if one accepts the New Testament as being true.Maybe.

To put it another way: You are using the New Testament (Hebrews, in this case), as a premise in your argument. But it is a premise that not everyone accepts, nor have you offered any evidence for it being true.

It is the same as a Mormon using the Book of Mormon to prove that Mormonism is the correct religion.

 

[Zeke]

Hebrews 9:16-17

[diatheke: a will, testament, covenant.]

As will a human will and testament, Hebrews tells us that for the New Covenant to be in force it must first be proved that the one who made it has died.

Who does the Bible say would make the New Covenant with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:31-33

Who led Israel out of Egypt and made the Old covenant with them?

God did.

Who said He would make a New covenant with Israel, just as He had made the Old?

God did.

But the one who makes a covenant has to die for it to be in force.

Who died?

Christ did.

Is a father's will and testament in force if his son dies?

No. The one who MADE the will must die for his will to be in force.

Therefore, Christ is God.

To bad you can't grasp Galatians 4:20-28 and where that all takes place instead of secularizing Divine history.

Ever heard of the little word IN.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

LA

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Interplanner]

1. Hebrews states that the one initiating a diatheke has to die for it to go into effect.

2. Hebrews quotes prophecy to state that God initiated the New diatheke with Israel, just as He'd initiated the Old diatheke with Israel.

3. Hebrews reminds us, in the context of the New diatheke, that Christ is the One that died.

That is what it says.

Are you just stupidly arguing against things you don't believe, or do you have a problem with one of those three points? Because if you try to derail this thread I will ask the mods to remove you.

No problem with those point, only that that is not all that Hebrews is about, nor is it only for them, because so many features of the new covenant are for all people. That's why most NT passages about the new covenant say it is for all people, and never mention it being about the land of Israel. As far as that goes, there is no point in distinguishing between NT (the collection of docs) and the new covenant, which is RD's speciality.

2P2P makes you forced into the corner where you now are. They have this secret knowledge about how Hebrews is not for others and only they know which verses are which. They are not happy until the Christian world is divided their way.

btw, "derail" is not to be confused with not 'submitting'. You want submission, in the Islamic sense, but I'm asking perfectly normal questions, and will continue to do so.

 

[Truster]

Paul began to preach, but ended up a basket case. He then went down to Arabia.

Acts 9:25

2 Corinthians 11:33

Anyone who has read the scriptures and knows them would have understood what I implied.

 

[meshak]

I welcome the whore, the sinner, the fallen and broaken... just like my LORD and God did. I would fist fight for a Christ claiming homosexual and die with a forgiven muderer. You really don't get it do you?!?

I dont get political "Christians".

Jesus says His followers are not of the world, yet you majority followers are so political. That's why you endorse Christians joining the military.

 

[meshak]

Jesus knows who belongs to His flock

Of course.

But you claim to know who are saved or not.

You are not Jesus.

 

[meshak]

You are trolling the thread with something that has nothing to do with this thread.

On top of that, there are times you should be united with Christians, such as speaking about Muslim concerns. You lack discernment in addition to your trolling behavior which is against TOL rules, Meshak.

there you go, politically correct Christian.

Christains are supposed to present Jesus to the world. Being political Christians shows your dishonoring Jesus' teachings.

You continually try to silence the truth.

You need more respect to Jesus' teachings.

shame on you.

 

[meshak]

Did you read the sacrifice Chair has experienced? Did you know men and women of war protect your smug butt... even as you self righteously chide in against them.

David was the bloody king after God's heart.

Do you even read the BIBLE or just read WatchTower swill?

You misuse or abuse the Scripture to justify your wicked faith.

 

[meshak]

You are sewing discord as always. I forgive you.

Peace peace... JW sheen and Grease!

You are spreading false gospel.

 

[meshak]

i'm ready to stand before the judgement throne

are you?

Yes, I am.

I am ready to die anytime

I am looking forward to see Jesus.

 

[meshak]

:nono: and you take every opportunity to go off-topic with your inane 'pretend Christian' accusation and banter. It has nothing to do with this thread. Stop it.


You are not doing that. You are accusing EE of being a pretend Christian. This is not the thread for it. Stop it.



You are off-topic. Nobody is talking about politics and it has nothing to do with this thread. You are trolling and derailing this thread. It has nothing to do with your concern.


:nono: I continually try to tell people when they are breaking TOL rules, like you are right now. You don't get to bring up only your concerns in every thread that has nothing to do with your concerns. This thread has nothing to do with your concerns. You therefore are breaking TOL rules and derailing this thread. Stop it.


Incorrect. I have no respect for those breaking TOL rules. You are breaking TOL rules. Jesus is not a part of you breaking your word when you joined TOL, to stay within the rules.

blah, blah,

Always seeking to silence the truth.