Spammers wasteland

Spammers wasteland

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intojoy

intojoy

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Eagles Wings said:
A student of the Reformation, Calvin, Luther, Beza, Melachthon, et al.

Ever been in prison, tried in a court of law, chased throughout raw, open country, all in the name of Christ?

Ever read about the multitude of martyrs who died for the sake of speaking for Him? Many of the Reformation did just that.

I'll proclaim the Sovereignty of God and the Attributes of God as told by Scripture and Christians whom I actually admire.
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God imposes self limitations upon His divine sovereignty.


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Nang

Nang

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Oh, I see. So, according to your Calvinist belief system, Christ ONLY died for those who "DESERVED" to be saved. Whereas, He didn't shed His blood for those who were "UNDESERVING." Therefore, YOU deserved to inherit eternal life while myriads of others weren't as deserving as you, right?
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May I remind you that Reformers are the ones who premise their entire system of thought upon the Doctrine of Total Depravity.

That is the belief that all men, born from Adam, inherit his corrupted human nature and are totally depraved sinners, undeserving of God's favor at all.

I guess you do not grasp rhetorical questions, eh?
 
Nang

Nang

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musterion said:
I don't doubt most of them were saved (some, given the gospels they appeared to believe...ehhh). But the fact remains that, saved or not, Christ did not command us to follow only His chosen man's example and doctrine. Just like God commanded Israel to follow Moses as if he was the voice of God Himself...because he was.
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It is God's means to use faithful men to preach the Gospel. Where did you first hear the Gospel, if not through another man?

Or do you hear Paul's voice in your head? . . .
 
Nang

Nang

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Why would a Reformed believer pray for anyone to be saved? Because they are aware of the fact that God's sovereignty will prevail every time?
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God not only ordains the preaching of faithful men to spread the Gospel into all the world, but God also ordains the prayers of faithful men to intercede for the good of others.

These are marks of holy sanctification and evidence the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers.
 
Nang

Nang

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Nihilo said:
God did just what you're talking about. Calvinists miss the main point though: God's plan is His Church. He extends His mercy to His Church. His Church are the elect. His Church will be saved. The Lord died for His Church. Everything that Calvinists talk about in nebulous terms, actually in point of fact applies to His Church.
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Yes, the Elect of God are Christ's Church . . His invisible church whose citizenship is with Him in heaven.

Reformers make a distinction between this invisible Church, and the visible church institutions that exist in this world, which are mixed up along with hypocrites and unbelievers.
 
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Eagles Wings said:
This is best answered by those more learned on the topic than myself. It is a most important question. I look at these passages and believe that God does indeed cause ALL things to work for good, even sin and evil, which He is not the author of.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

Amos 3:6 (KJV)

Proverbs 16:33 (KJV)
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So you make God the author of sin. Got it.
 
Nang

Nang

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I always find it strange, when strong advocates of autonomous human free will, accuse God of causing sin when the discussion of predestination comes up. As if, God determining the fates of all men, somehow make Him the author of sin. Nada!

Sinners willfully choose to sin. That is what makes them sinners and that is what separates them from God.

This is the tragedy that Jesus Christ has reconciled . . bringing willful sinners back into favor with God through grace and faith and granting new spiritual freedom to choose not to sin again . . through union in Him.
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Nang said:
I always find it strange, when strong advocates of autonomous human free will, accuse God of causing sin when the discussion of predestination comes up. As if, God determining the fates of all men, somehow make Him the author of sin. Nada!

Sinners willfully choose to sin. That is what makes them sinners and that is what separates them from God.

This is the tragedy that Jesus Christ has reconciled . . bringing willful sinners back into favor with God through grace and faith and granting new spiritual freedom to choose not to sin again . . through union in Him.
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Agreed. Well said.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Nang said:
Yes, the Elect of God are Christ's Church . . His invisible church whose citizenship is with Him in heaven.
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I can't find "invisible" Church in my Bible.
Nang said:
Reformers make a distinction between this invisible Church, and the visible church institutions that exist in this world, which are mixed up along with hypocrites and unbelievers.
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And the Holy Catholic Church also recognizes a distinction between those Christians who are in full communion with the Holy See, and those who are not. "Catholics on the way to full communion," is a gracious phrase the supreme pastor of the Church has used for some of those "imperfectly" united with her.
 
Nang

Nang

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Nihilo said:
I can't find "invisible" Church in my Bible.
And the Holy Catholic Church also recognizes a distinction between those Christians who are in full communion with the Holy See, and those who are not. "Catholics on the way to full communion," is a gracious phrase the supreme pastor of the Church has used for some of those "imperfectly" united with her.
Click to expand...

Have you looked for mention and description of heavenly citizenship?
 
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