Spammers wasteland

[Eagles Wings]

Wouldn't we just be, going through the motions?

Do you just go through the motions of prayer and bible study?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

We are with the One we love most. We have His friendship, His covenant, His assurance that He will keep and hold us. We sing and pray the Psalms to give Him praise and glory due Him. He fills our heart and mine with Himself.

That still doesn't answer the original question?

 

[Eagles Wings]

Can you provide some Scripture that backs up your assumption?

Read any of the Psalms, even the ones filled with despair, and you will know what a gift it is to pray with our Lord.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Do you just go through the motions of prayer and bible study?

Prayer and Bible are a necessity. However, if I were a "Reformed believer" why would I pray against the sovereignty of God? After all, if He truly already chooses the Elect and damned the rest, who am I to pray against His will?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Read any of the Psalms, even the ones filled with despair, and you will know what a gift it is to pray with our Lord.

However, why, if we are of the Reformed persuasion, would we feel a strong desire to pray for someone to be saved? After all. God's already chosen. hasn't He?

 

[Eagles Wings]

Prayer and Bible are a necessity. However, if I were a "Reformed believer" why would I pray against the sovereignty of God? After all, if He truly already chooses the Elect and damned the rest, who am I to pray against His will?

I don't know His will for any specific person. When we pray, Deo Volente, for instance, our mind is in accordance with His.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I don't know His will for any specific person. When we pray, Deo Volente, for instance, our mind is in accordance with His.

However, are you gonna be able to change God's will if He's already chosen the Elect in the past?

 

[Right Divider]

The crux of this is how do we each understand "free will". This is the centuries old Arminius vs Augustine debate. I am still on a big learning curve, however, I believe God saves and damns according to His good pleasure. One only has to read through the Old Testament to realize this.

Well if we allow ALL of the Bible to work together, we find that God does not use His sovereignty to force every action.

1Tim 2:3-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:3) For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
​

Was Paul wrong?

 

[Nihilo]

Indeed.

But when I think about it more, it could be said to be quite logical when one considers God's perfect nature.

Logically, God could have saved no one, for all deserve nothing but HIs justice. On the other hand, logically speaking, the character of God is such that He may decide to extend mercy to those whom He so chooses—even an amount of people no man can number—all according to His own purposes and glory. Thankfully He did just that.

Of course, that last bit is actually the miracle many seem to overlook about God as they go about seeking to rob God of His glory with humanistic notions of "fairness" that underly their erroneous claims of a universal atonement. Sigh.

AMR

God did just what you're talking about. Calvinists miss the main point though: God's plan is His Church. He extends His mercy to His Church. His Church are the elect. His Church will be saved. The Lord died for His Church. Everything that Calvinists talk about in nebulous terms, actually in point of fact applies to His Church.

 

[Nihilo]

I'll answer because I want to GM, which always costs with you, as you judge and rebuke all doctrine but your own.

There are no Presbyterian or Reformed churches in our area that have not gone the way of "disorderly" church practices. We attend WELS or LCMS as visitors only since we do not agree with their view of baptism, communion, and other doctrine.

I used to be OP/RPCNA for a spell. RPCNA services are beautiful, unaccompanied congregational singing of only the Psalter.

 

[Nihilo]

We weren't Church goers per se. We went to church on Christmas and Easter.

How very Catholic of you.

 

[Nick M]

Well, I believe God Almighty is running the universe, down to every detail, according to His predetermined will and good pleasure.
Do you disagree?

God never rejected the reprobate according to His foreknowledge of their actions. God rejects reprobates according to His will. God formed all men, either for dishonor or honor, according to His willful purposes and good pleasure. To reject this truth is disbelief and a rejection of Sovereign God Himself.

Nang says God makes them do it.

Nope. Never said so. Never believed so. Never posted so.

I do not lie . .

 

[Sherman]

Good question. Does this help? Nang is not a member of the Body of Christ. She reject the gospel and says the most heinous things. I have never said anything wicked like this, even when outside of Christ. John W has never said anything wicked like this. But he rebukes her sharply, and rightly so.

This is pathetic.

Where are these quotes coming from? The links on them are broken.

There is a such thing as an appropriate rebuke, but calling person demon possessed or 'demonette' when they are not is not acceptable. Rather he should use scripture to make his point.

 

[Eagles Wings]

However, are you gonna be able to change God's will if He's already chosen the Elect in the past?

Little old me, change the mind of the Almighty? No, sir.

 

[Eagles Wings]

Well if we allow ALL of the Bible to work together, we find that God does not use His sovereignty to force every action.

1Tim 2:3-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:3) For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
​

Was Paul wrong?

God's actions are always and forever, for His pleasure. If God willed all to be saved they would be, correct? But we know that all are not. So, I simply believe, He saves as He pleases.

 

[Shasta]

From the standpoint of the doctrine of absolute determinism it is not God's will that everyone be saved. If it were they would be. "Prayer" as I heard a Calvinist scholar once say, "Does not change the mind of God...We should pray because God tells us to." In other words there really is no cause effect relationship between our prayers and anything actually taking place. The salvation of the lost is not dependent upon their will. All things have been decreed by God and are therefore not contingent upon the actions of their will. The game is fixed, the outcome of everything has already been decided ahead of time. This does not at all fit the scriptures in which men (seemingly perilously close to destruction) are entreated, exhorted, warned by prophets, teachers and apostles to turn away from sin and turn to the Lord. Does he entreat men on one hand while simultaneously depriving them of the power to respond? No matter how you interpret scripture it does indeed read as if men had a freewill.

 

[Eagles Wings]

Is it even necessary to witness Christ to others? If God has already chosen before the foundation of the world who would be saved and who would be damned, why bother to tell anyone about eternal life?

We are commissioned to tell all of the Good News.

 

[Eagles Wings]

How does it "benefit" us?

My turn for a question. Do you pray?

 

[Nihilo]

My turn for a question. Do you pray?

The rosary.

Also, the Mass is a collective prayer. The Church has prayed the Mass since the beginning. It's one of the things that makes the Church distinct from everybody else.

 

[Shasta]

God's actions are always and forever, for His pleasure. If God willed all to be saved they would be, correct? But we know that all are not. So, I simply figure He saves as He pleases.

It was not God's will that men be saved involuntarily. Making this issue about God's power is incorrect because He never made men to be robots. He made them in His image which means we are capable of rational thought and volition. If it is His will for us to FREELY choose him then He would not contravene HIs desire by coercing men into submission. It is the Devil who dominates men's mouths and bodies against their will - not God.