SOME PROOF OF CHRIST'S DIETY AND BEING THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS.

[CherubRam]

Colossians 1:16 KJV - :rapture:

The translation is questionable.

Colossians 1
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[keypurr]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You need to go back to school, learn the meaning of Prototokos and the scriptural application of this word, that firstborn has nothing to do with being a creature, or even being the firstborn in some creature familial birth order, and that the first creation of such said creature would be Protoktisis in the Greek. Paul is clearly speaking to Christ's preeminence in eternity. Clear as the nose on your face, Paul even goes on to describe the role and activities of the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Duh! You're misleading people, contrary to the scripture context of the entire Bible, on who the Lord Jesus is, and always was.

Anyway, we've established you subscribe to the Arian heresy, reducing Christ, who created ALL things, to a creature, who presumably created Himself? What, very God as scripture is most clear on, but some God not of eternity?

Which Arian heresy cult, cut off at the knees by scripture truth, are you? Jehovah's Witnesses?

I am fully aware of the Greek word Prototokos, and I am aware that it is used in two ways, first to be born and first in importance. 70% of its usage is first to be born. Christ is the express image of the Father, ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. Christ is the first of creatures as all things were created through him by his God.

I suggest to discard the Greek and learn from the Hebrew.

Your IQ level must be in the single numbers as you do not seem to understand much about what I have been posting. You follow your traditional doctrines that are in error. Open your mind if you wish to see truth. You speak like an idiot, I suggest to spend more time learning and less time judging folks who differ from you. You have so much more to learn friend. Jesus told you that only his Father is the true God, why do you discard his words?

 

[keypurr]

I see that you're still ignorant of the truths of Scripture. You
poor soul. You're the Guru of your own little cult. Enjoy.

When will you disprove my thoughts GM?

 

[Bright Raven]

When will you disprove my thoughts GM?

Here you go. If you won't take this you won't take anything.

Colossians 1:16-20 New International Version (NIV)

16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here you go. If you won't take this you won't take anything.

Colossians 1:16-20 New International Version (NIV)

16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Who was pleased?

 

[keypurr]

Do you notice this in his closing?

I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

Subtly slimy and pathetic. It speaks volumes. They don't love Christ. How do you love somebody you don't even acknowledge, respect, the Personage of? Very God you try and denigrate to creature status? Thomas didn't even have a New Testament, but he had this much sense:

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Whatever motivates anybody to tear down the brightest manifestation of very God the earth has ever seen, denigrate the Person of their Creator? It seems to me that's the work of the other guy, not God. You have to also presume they're semi-literate. How do they get past this?

Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I hate to say it, really do, but the truth is all this Neanderthal, Christ-denying theology from hell, in this day and age when people have every tool imaginable to put truth in their laps, is beyond absurd, and reading these deceptive people, anymore, is a real bore. It's high time some people either grow up, or shut up.

Incidentally, you dig into some of these cults, and they've actually the likes of relegated Jesus Christ to being the angel Michael and purported to be Satan's brother. From Russell to White to Smith there's some genuine, heinous blasphemy, seriously twisted, demonic stuff, make no mistake.

Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
The one he accented to?
Why did he pray to his Father?

There is one God, YHWH, the God of our Lord. Paul tells you that we have ONE GOD and one Lord, listen to him. Your Greek translation can distort what is really written.

You are just hitting the tip of the iceberg. You have no clue of what the scriptures say. In my seventy years of study I have seen many sides of scripture, I was very active in a huge church. I know your thoughts. Your wrong on all counts. The church will not save you, follow and believe in the words of our Lord.

 

[genuineoriginal]

God the Father calls His Son, God.

If God Himself calls His Son, God Who among us can deny
Christ's Deity?

Why would anyone deny the deity of the Son of God?

But, to follow your original claim that anyone God calls God is God Himself, what about this passage?

John 10:34-36 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?​

 

[Bright Raven]

Who was pleased?

The post was not addressed to you but, who created the heavens and the earth according to Genesis 1:1, And who created all things according to Colossians 1:16. So what's your problem?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So what's your problem?

Whenever Paul speaks of God, he makes it clear that he is referring only to the Father.

Colossians 1:1-3 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,​

Does Paul ever call Jesus "God"?

If Paul uses the word God to refer only to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, why would you try to teach people to not follow his example?

 

[Bright Raven]

Whenever Paul speaks of God, he makes it clear that he is referring only to the Father.

Colossians 1:1-3 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,​

Does Paul ever call Jesus "God"?

If Paul uses the word God to refer only to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, why would you try to teach people to not follow his example?

You obviously have a problem with comprehension.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You obviously have a problem with comprehension.

Yes, I have a problem with your lack of comprehension.

Let's try it a little simpler.

Romans 15:6 6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Paul is always careful to only use the word "God" when speaking about the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why do you object to other Christians when they are just as careful with the word as Paul is?

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, I have a problem with your lack of comprehension.

Let's try it a little simpler.

Romans 15:6 6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Paul is always careful to only use the word "God" when speaking about the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why do you object to other Christians when they are just as careful with the word as Paul is?

Let's try your comprehension a little more.

Titus 2:13 New International Version (NIV)

13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Who does it say our great God and Savior is?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Let's try your comprehension a little more.

Titus 2:13 New International Version (NIV)

13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Is that really the only verse you found that can be twisted into appearing like Paul is calling Jesus Christ "God"?

What about the rest of the book?

Titus 1:4 4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.​

 

[Bright Raven]

Is that really the only verse you found that can be twisted into appearing like Paul is calling Jesus Christ "God"?

What about the rest of the book?

Titus 1:4 4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.​

You like all non-believer's doubt and deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Your problem friend, not mine.

How is it twisted. The twisting comes from your interpretation. Try Granville-Sharp's rule of Greek grammar. It may open your eyes to the truth.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You like all non-believer's doubt and deny the deity of Jesus Christ.

I do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ.

Try Granville-Sharp's rule of Greek grammar. It may open your eyes to the truth.

So, Granvill-Sharp made up a rule to justify their belief that Jesus is God the Father?
How does that help your argument?

Basically, Granville Sharp's rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, *both nouns are referring to the same person*.

Paul always uses the proper name God for God the Father, so the Granville Sharp rule automatically invalidates itself.

 

[Bright Raven]

I do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ.


So, Granvill-Sharp made up a rule to justify their belief that Jesus is God the Father?
How does that help your argument?

You don't deny the deity of Jesus Christ? You must have me and a lot of other people well fooled. Is Jesus God?

The rule is an accepted grammatical construction of the greek language. Your problem, not mine.

 

[Bright Raven]

Where did you go Keypurr. Did you flutter away since your house of cards has fallen?

 

[genuineoriginal]

You don't deny the deity of Jesus Christ? You must have me and a lot of other people well fooled.

I have not fooled anyone.
You and a lot of other people have fooled yourselves.

Is Jesus God?

Who does the scriptures state Jesus is?

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

The rule is an accepted grammatical construction of the greek language.

Created by trinitarians in order to excuse poor exegesis?

 

[Bright Raven]

I have not fooled anyone.
You and a lot of other people have fooled yourselves.

Your not going to answer the question? Is Jesus God?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Your not going to answer the question? Is Jesus God?

Who does the scriptures state Jesus is?

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

Are you really ready to deny what scripture states about Jesus?