Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[Zenn]

Only in His humanity. The lengths you people won't go to in your blasphemy is beyond belief. :nono:

Is it blasphemous to add in words? For you read the verse and add in words ...

The Father is greater than I {gldz: but only for the next day or so while I'm still in a human body, then the Father won't be greater than I.}

At what point did Jesus stop being human?

Zenn

 

[Zenn]

(assessment vs. 'insult' a teacher generally doesn't give it as blunt, but assessment none-the-less with the "Intention of correction.")

You actually think calling somebody dense is not an insult but an 'assessment'? That it's acceptable professional practice for a teacher to call somebody dense?

Wow. You may wish to work on your social skills and ask that friend you don't have about whether calling somebody dense is an insult or not.

Zenn

 

[Zenn]

:doh:

Yikes! There is absolutely NO ability to EVEN COMMUNICATE with someone like this. You remove Paul from Scripture and you remove Christ. Of course all of this attacking the word of God is FOR this very purpose! Once you get rid of scripture authority, you get rid of Paul. Once you get rid of Paul, you get rid of Our blessed Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation.

More black and white thinking.

Given that Paul directly chastised Peter (who also couldn't care less for the teachings of Jesus at that point because he was too influenced by and scared of James) would you conclude that removing Peter "from Scripture and you remove Christ"? Obviously not.

At least jsan doesn't try to make the apostles infallible. And he's even Catholic.

But Lon, look around. There are MANY in the body of Christ who elevate Paul above the stature and authority of Jesus and will readily supplant the the teachings of Jesus with the behaviour of Paul. gldz just did this. Why would you support a view that places Paul above Jesus?

Why can't you be honest that Paul's behaviour at times was in opposition to what Jesus taught us to do? (cf. Mat. 23:9, 1 Cor. 4:15)

Zenn

PS: Paul even pushed a guilt agenda on his readers and admitted that such was his own opinion and not from the Lord. So who did he expect his readers to follow?
(1Co 4:16 KJV) Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

PPS: Deal with what's written.

PPPS: (You're still here?)

 

[Jacob]

You do not know the calendar found in the Torah. You are using the man made Hillel II calendar started in 359AD.

I am 8 hours ahead of you and 2 hours behind Jerusalem from where God calculates time.

For me now it is day 22 month 10 year 5988 and being day 22 it is a Sabbath.

Shalom.

Shalom.

Today is Revi'i, 10-23. It is Yom, Day.

You are incorrect. The first month, according to the Torah, is (the month of) Aviv. It is in this month that we celebrate and observe the Passover. And, the Sabbath, Shabbat, is the seventh day of the week. This is the same each week. Each day on the Jewish Calendar ends with sundown. There is the Calendar Day, and there is Day. They both end with sundown. Shabbat can begin before sundown and end after sundown.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Zenn]

You do not know the calendar found in the Torah. You are using the man made Hillel II calendar started in 359AD.

I am 8 hours ahead of you and 2 hours behind Jerusalem from where God calculates time.

For me now it is day 22 month 10 year 5988 and being day 22 it is a Sabbath.

Shalom.

Good thing Moses didn't have to deal with the international dateline. ;^)

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Lol, if you do not believe what I said to you then you have of yourself created yet another contradiction: your version of Messiah is therefore a lawbreaker for not going up to Jerusalem at the Passover. He clearly stayed in the Galilees and fed the five thousand: it is right there in the text, plain as day. Purchase some eye-salve from the Master so that you may see, (Jhn 6:1-6, 6:16-17). John 6:4 is therefore Pesach Sheni of Num 9:11, (according to how the first century Yhudim observed it), just as I said to you. You can bring water to a beast but you cannot force him to drink, (or something like that, no, wait, yeah that's right in this case, lol). :chuckle:

This verse was never in the original text.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I have not looked in much detail past the obvious error: that the writer of Hebrews said the Holy of Holies held the golden altar of incense, or the censer.

Yes, the writer of Hebrews does present the censer as staying there, not visiting once a year,

Mmmm, Does it? How does it say that?

After all:
Leviticus 16:12-13
12 He shall take the censer full of coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and two handfuls of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the veil:
13 and he shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the testimony, so that he not die.

Shows that it is brought into the H of H only once a year.

 

[Zenn]

Now the way I see it is that Paul meant that the censor was one of the only objects allowed into the H of H.

One would need to use a secondary definition of the word ἔχω along with a secondary definition of the word και (using "for" instead of "and").

(LINK) See entry 2

(LINK) ἔχω 2

χρυσουν εχουσα (ἔχω 2 - bringing) θυμιατηριον και (for) την the κιβωτον ark της of the διαθηκης covenant.

(or very loosely...) Which the golden censer was brought for the ark of the covenant....

Highly interesting.

I cannot refute the possibility without much more reading. Might I ask what specifically led you to this conclusion? Some gut feel?

Zenn

PS: Cobra, this one might really be a bad translation error, or more likely, a very strange way that the author of Hebrews wrote. I can see where this would make a great PhD. thesis.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

Today is Revi'i, 10-23. It is Yom, Day.

I agree

You are incorrect. The first month, according to the Torah, is (the month of) Aviv. It is in this month that we celebrate and observe the Passover.

Only the religious new year begins then. Creation began at the beginning of Tishri which was month one before God changed it to be month seven:

Exodus 12:1-2
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.

Exodus 34:22
“Celebrate the Festival of Weeks [Shavuot/Pentecost] with the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering [Tabernacles] at the turn of the year.”

And, the Sabbath, Shabbat, is the seventh day of the week. This is the same each week.

Yes, but only on days 8, 15,22 & 29 each lunar month.

Each day on the Jewish Calendar ends with sundown. There is the Calendar Day, and there is Day. They both end with sundown. Shabbat can begin before sundown and end after sundown.

Agreed

Shalom.

Jacob

Shalom

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Good thing Moses didn't have to deal with the international dateline. ;^)

Ha ha! YES!!!

 

[daqq]

This verse was never in the original text.

Suit yourself but that is a bogus excuse concocted by some so-called scholars who simply are not capable of understanding that statement within its multi-chapter(passage) context. It is nearly impossible to reason logos-reasoning with those who reject the logos-reasoning of the Logos in favor of their own reasoning of man and of the world.

 

[Jacob]

I agreeOnly the religious new year begins then. Creation began at the beginning of Tishri which was month one before God changed it to be month seven:

Exodus 12:1-2
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.

Exodus 34:22
“Celebrate the Festival of Weeks [Shavuot/Pentecost] with the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering [Tabernacles] at the turn of the year.”


Yes, but only on days 8, 15,22 & 29 each lunar month. Agreed
Shalom

Shalom.

Actually, you have faulted me for observing the month of Aviv as the first month according to Torah.

Also, we do not observe the Sabbaths the way you have described. The Sabbath is the seventh day of each and every week.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

One would need to use a secondary definition of the word ἔχω along with a secondary definition of the word και (using "for" instead of "and").

(LINK) See entry 2

(LINK) ἔχω 2

χρυσουν εχουσα (ἔχω 2 - bringing) θυμιατηριον και (for) την the κιβωτον ark της of the διαθηκης covenant.

(or very loosely...) Which the golden censer was brought for the ark of the covenant....

Highly interesting.

I cannot refute the possibility without much more reading. Might I ask what specifically led you to this conclusion? Some gut feel?

Zenn

PS: Cobra, this one might really be a bad translation error, or more likely, a very strange way that the author of Hebrews wrote. I can see where this would make a great PhD. thesis.

I can't take the credit it was daqq who swayed me with his daqqenese.

You could look at my post here and work backwards if you like.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5168748&viewfull=1#post5168748

 

[daqq]

Ha ha! YES!!!

:doh: I see my error from the previous page now that it is too late, I hope everyone will forgive me for inadvertently opening the door wide open for you to turn this thread into another "God's Calendar" soapbox. What's next? Oh yeah, no doubt your prophecies and predictions of the tribulation beginning in 2022 and Jesus returning in 2029 are sure to follow.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Suit yourself but that is a bogus excuse concocted by some so-called scholars who simply are not capable of understanding that statement within its multi-chapter(passage) context. It is nearly impossible to reason logos-reasoning with those who reject the logos-reasoning of the Logos in favor of their own reasoning of man and of the world.

What proof would you need to be convinced?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

:doh: I see my error from the previous page now that it is too late, I hope everyone will forgive me for inadvertently opening the door wide open for you to turn this thread into another "God's Calendar" soapbox. What's next? Oh yeah, no doubt your prophecies and predictions of the tribulation beginning in 2022 and Jesus returning in 2029 are sure to follow.

I agree it is a bit tangential but then at the moment 'our' current 1582 Gregorian man made calendar that most live by is not based on scripture, while God's Calendar that is based on scripture is all but ignored by mostly everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike.

 

[Lon]

No way, more the merrier. It's just you keep using the 'I'm outta here!' statement like it some how adds weight to any argument you make. It's pointless and makes you look rather priggish.

Post both (I know which you are talking about). Neither of them says what you think it does.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Post both (I know which you are talking about). Neither of them says what you think it does.

Are you asking me to look for your posts and show them to you?

 

[daqq]

What proof would you need to be convinced?

If you think you have something new there is no one is stopping you from posting it.

 

[Lon]

You actually think calling somebody dense is not an insult but an 'assessment'? That it's acceptable professional practice for a teacher to call somebody dense?

Wow. You may wish to work on your social skills and ask that friend you don't have about whether calling somebody dense is an insult or not.

Zenn

Or viper? :think: Was the Lord Jesus Christ simply 'name-calling?' It is ONLY an insult if the person takes it that way. "You are fat." Rude? Yes, BUT it might be said of a person that genuinely cares about the other person. It might also be true!

Dense means "Thick, I can't get through." MOST students don't argue with their teachers so you are being a bit thick here yourself. Bad? Only if you want to learn OR someone wants to get through. Stop pandering to the Politically Correct Crowd else you'll be censoring the words of the Lord Jesus Christ along the way. Admittedly, I'm not as gentle as the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm a bit more of a son of thunder but I am working on it. I've not called down fire to consume anyone lately (maybe I'm NOT actually a son of thunder :think: ).