Satan, Inc (TOL's heretic's list)

oatmeal

Well-known member
"God" isn't an office. He didn't get elected. "King" yes, but that is a different title. "God" is not an office or title. Whether I am a father or husband, I will always be Lon. Same here. You do know our Southern Baptist doctrine, don't you? You cannot be a Southern Baptist and go against that. :nono: You would rather be someone who attends a Southern Baptist church, but unable to sign the doctrinal statement, therefore, unable to become a member in good standing. Any membership class demands that you agree. You can, however, certainly attend with us.

That is why Moses is really a god.

Exodus 7:1 KJV

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

That is why in John 10:34-35 Jesus agrees with God that God refers to men as gods.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

"god" is a title

not necessarily a specific person or being
 

Heterodoxical

New member
Why so? We are instructed in Scripture to mark heretics. How would you fulfill that commandment on a forum?

Your mamma and daddy grew up in the redneck hollers of kentucky, didn't they? Which parent do they share?

Presumptuous is too mild a word for you, Hubris is too small a burden to describe yours.
 

Lon

Well-known member
That is why Moses is really a god.

Exodus 7:1 KJV

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

That is why in John 10:34-35 Jesus agrees with God that God refers to men as gods.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

"god" is a title

not necessarily a specific person or being

This isn't good thinking. I assert you are wrong (to be shortly proven I think).

We don't have the power of God. We have no control over another's life. Only a superior is in full command of any given situation and intervention at His disposal. In no way are we gods other than to what degree man reflects to other men, the being who is God. As such, we are vessels and mirrors of the God, not gods in our own right.

If you are even a god, strike me instantly blind that I might know your power. Right now. Er, you didn't do it. Okay, so you aren't that god-enough (no omniscience, omnipresence), when you get online and read this then....

"God" doesn't mean man. "Man" may mean vessel of God and/or image (mirror) of God. Properly, Moses wasn't God, he was a mirror of God to people. As such, they spoke to God through the mirror. God 'chose' the mirror. So, for your and my conversation, I reject the translation that any of us are gods in any way, shape or form. Such is an misinformed scriptural understanding. We could retranslate but decided that you depending upon us (elders/ the educated and scholar) could depend upon us when such came time for discussion. We weren't really envisioning the 3rd graders' revolt. It is a bit absurd and narcissitic. I know you likely think scholars this way too, but they are teaching the class and you are dependent upon their work to even get to the lower grade level you got to.
*(the use of me in this is for illustrative purposes, you can raise or lower me in your expection, such isn't the pertinent point, I'm not a 'god' to you. I'm just a man who rightly understands what that means at my particular grade level).

It is.

Meh. (deleted response)

...wouldn't listen anyway.

You are wanting to teach from your layman position and understanding yet. Such is no longer my contention with unitarians. It will go nowhere until you admit your grade level and station in these proceedings. That particular matters a great deal. It is the key to dissention, in my understanding. I think most of you protest because you do not know better.

I still see rather well, I imagine you are no god at all and that this point is duly noted and understood by you. You are no god. :up:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The mediator between two parties (one party is God! and the other party is men.) Is the man Christ Jesus

Next

Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man because He is both God and man. A man representing man would not be sufficient. God sent a representative (the Word who was with God and was God) who became flesh (born of woman). Thus, the ONE PERFECT representative ...being fully God and fully man...came into the world to save sinners. He came down from heaven to dwell among us as a man. John 6:38 He came out from God to dwell among us as a man. John 16:27 Jesus was truly GOD WITH US...

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.​
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
This isn't good thinking. I assert you are wrong (to be shortly proven I think).

We don't have the power of God. We have no control over another's life. Only a superior is in full command of any given situation and intervention at His disposal. In no way are we gods other than to what degree man reflects to other men, the being who is God. As such, we are vessels and mirrors of the God, not gods in our own right.

If you are even a god, strike me instantly blind that I might know your power. Right now. Er, you didn't do it. Okay, so you aren't that god-enough (no omniscience, omnipresence), when you get online and read this then....

"God" doesn't mean man. "Man" may mean vessel of God and/or image (mirror) of God. Properly, Moses wasn't God, he was a mirror of God to people. As such, they spoke to God through the mirror. God 'chose' the mirror. So, for your and my conversation, I reject the translation that any of us are gods in any way, shape or form. Such is an misinformed scriptural understanding. We could retranslate but decided that you depending upon us (elders/ the educated and scholar) could depend upon us when such came time for discussion. We weren't really envisioning the 3rd graders' revolt. It is a bit absurd and narcissitic. I know you likely think scholars this way too, but they are teaching the class and you are dependent upon their work to even get to the lower grade level you got to.
*(the use of me in this is for illustrative purposes, you can raise or lower me in your expection, such isn't the pertinent point, I'm not a 'god' to you. I'm just a man who rightly understands what that means at my particular grade level).



You are wanting to teach from your layman position and understanding yet. Such is no longer my contention with unitarians. It will go nowhere until you admit your grade level and station in these proceedings. That particular matters a great deal. It is the key to dissention, in my understanding. I think most of you protest because you do not know better.

I still see rather well, I imagine you are no god at all and that this point is duly noted and understood by you. You are no god. :up:

So you have removed Exodus 7:1 and John 10:34-35 from your Bible?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man because He is both God and man. A man representing man would not be sufficient. God sent a representative (the Word who was with God and was God) who became flesh (born of woman). Thus, the ONE PERFECT representative ...being fully God and fully man...came into the world to save sinners. He came down from heaven to dwell among us as a man. John 6:38 He came out from God to dwell among us as a man. John 16:27 Jesus was truly GOD WITH US...

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.​

Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man because He is both God and man.

Really?

And which verse states that?

A man representing man would not be sufficient.

Really?

And which verse states that?

God sent a representative (the Word who was with God and was God) who became flesh (born of woman).

So did God send a representative or did God himself send himself?

All of himself or just the son part of your Father and Son and Holy Spirit God?

Thus, the ONE PERFECT representative ...being fully God and fully man...came into the world to save sinners.

So, again, did God send a representative? or did they go themselves?

He came down from heaven to dwell among us as a man. John 6:38 He came out from God to dwell among us as a man. John 16:27

When he came from heaven, was he doing his own will or the will of him that sent him?

1. What was his own will?

2. What was the will of him who sent him?

Why does Jesus Christ distinguish between his will and the one who sent him?

Jesus was truly GOD WITH US...


Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

He shall be?

Or he shall be called?

your username is "glorydaz".

Am I to take that literally.

You and you alone are glorydaz?

When Christ returns in glory, that day is actually you?

How pathetically egotistical.​
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
He came in the form of a servant...to dwell among us and purchase us with His own blood. He did so because NO MAN was found worthy. I wouldn't denigrate God by denying what's plainly taught in His Holy Word.

that is right, no man was worthy so God had a son who is worthy.

John 3:16

Matthew 1:18

Jesus Christ has a beginning
 

God's Truth

New member
that is right, no man was worthy so God had a son who is worthy.

John 3:16

Matthew 1:18

Jesus Christ has a beginning

In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation!

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation!

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?

I am not surprised that a son has the same name as his father.

I have my father's name, his last name.

I am not my father and my father is not me.

Yet we have the same last name.

Oddly, his parents had the same last name as I do

This seems to be a pattern on my father's side of the family

Oddly, my mother had the same last name as my father and so did my two sisters

Hmm. How strange indeed that God would give his son His name?

or that the son would be in the same business as his father.

I must be about my Father's business.

What is the Father's business?

Did Jesus Christ follow in his Father's business?
 

Lon

Well-known member
So you have removed Exodus 7:1 and John 10:34-35 from your Bible?
See, this is that lower grade thing going on. Sorry, but I told you why these don't mean what you think it means. It does not. I still see today, btw. Your god-like powers not working? We disagree at the source of the term God. The best way to translate those verses is 'mirror' of God. Our light, not to be hid under a bushel, is 'Christ in us, the hope of glory.' --> "Mirrors, reflectors of God."

Read both of those verses from that understanding, and you will understand the usage of term. In no way are we God. Rather, others see God through our vessel. Go back and read Exodus, at no time did Moses claim power on his own (in fact he missed the promised land for attempting to do so later). He continued to mirror - reflect one God alone.
 

God's Truth

New member
I am not surprised that a son has the same name as his father.

I have my father's name, his last name.

I am not my father and my father is not me.

Yet we have the same last name.

Oddly, his parents had the same last name as I do

This seems to be a pattern on my father's side of the family

Oddly, my mother had the same last name as my father and so did my two sisters

Hmm. How strange indeed that God would give his son His name?

or that the son would be in the same business as his father.

I must be about my Father's business.

What is the Father's business?

Did Jesus Christ follow in his Father's business?

You are trying to cloud the point I made with a bunch of nonsense talk that have nothing to do with what I said.

You said Jesus had a beginning and an end. You said that in an attempt to discredit Jesus as being God in the flesh. However, I have shown you scripture where God says He Himself is the Beginning and the End.

You have been shown the truth, but you reject it.
 

Lon

Well-known member
My reported post:
You are the contentious one on this forum. I reread my post. I thought it was rather congenial especially in light of your insubordination. You are the ill-willed one here. Maybe you get alot of opposition but it is right. Don't self-martyr yourself.

Learn or not. Listen or not. That's all on you. Don't try and blame any of us when you knew that well in advance before signing on to the internet today. We are right, you are wrong, end of story.
Your complaint:
Reported link
This post was meant to marginalize a member
I cannot do what a unitarian already does to himself/herself. I cannot marginalize what is already marginalized. As I said rightly above, that's all on you. I want you to understand that when I don't get an infraction. I didn't do this to you. Did you happen to see the "all" bolded?


Reported link
it is vitriolic and condescending.
Vitriolic? :nono: I can't even play. Condescending? Yes, it must, I believe, but with no ill-will. It is an assessment.

Reported link
It does not ensure the peaceful and respectful interchange of thoughts and ideas,
:doh: Do you know where you are posting today?

Reported link
but casts a pale upon the overseers of this site.
Again, your dispersions are all self-inflicted. It is no reflection on me or the mods of this site.

Reported link
By assigning authority to himself,
:nono: At your earliest convenience, please take remedial reading for comprehesion (88-99 community college levels).

Reported link
this member portrays himself as a spokesperson for TOL.
Er, if I were on another site and wasn't talking to just one person, you'd be able to claim I was trying to be a spokesman for TOL. I am, however, expressing the main of the entire Christian community, simply because it is the view of the main of the entirety of Christianity. Go PM a few of those also on the heresy list with you I think they'll pat your back for you and hold your hand during this portion of reading the truth (sorry beforehand, yes I know that is condescending).

Reported link
If that is true, then it should be noted in his profile, and due respect will be given to him.
It isn't. What do you care? You've already gone against all of us. Why even come to a triune website? Such seems strangely masochistic to me. I avoid Jehovah Witness and other arian/unitarian sites on purpose. I'm no masochist. You unitarians have this much in commonality. I suppose a dysfunction sense of fellowship is better than shunning but as long as you say the right things, don't you all pretend at least to like each other? I haven't really been to an arian or unitarian board where I paid any attention or would know. Why don't you guys and gals like them? It seems you'd all be a bit happier there where you can all get along. On here, unitarians pick at each other nearly the same as you do the greater community. I wish you'd all take two seconds and watch yourselves. On this particular topic, we don't fight at all. You'll see us discuss, but in very congenial manners because we all agree that the triune view is true. You unitarians don't even agree on your own views from one another. It is sad to watch actually. What you purposefully do to disrupt, you purposefully do to disrupt one another. Sorry, that isn't me marginalizing. You folks even choose 'other' when you come here! :doh:
Since we are getting distance from it, here is the link again to the post I wanted you to read and spend more time on. It contains the words and truth of God.
...your citation of John 1:1 comes from an errant translation. If you need evidence to that end, I can provide that, should truth be what you seek and not vainglory.
Yep, Show me:

Joh 1:1 ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

I pray your own words haunt you on this.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
A. Arianism One of the first early Church heresies is called “ Arianism.” Arianism stems from a church leader named Arias who taught that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit were not the same in essence, but different. Arianism says that only God the Father is eternal. The Son was created by God the Father before anything else; then everything else was created through the Son, who Himself was a created being. We do not talk about Arians any more, but they are still around in various cults, such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism, which also deny the eternal pre-existence of the Son by teaching that the Son was created by God the Father.

B. Sabellianism A second error is known as “Sabellianism,” also known as “Modalism” or “Modalistic Monarchianism.” Sabellianism teaches that there is only one personality, and not three, but this one personality would reveal Himself in three different ways. Sometimes He would reveal Himself as the Father, whenever He was presented as the Creator and Lawgiver. If the issue was redemption, He would
reveal Himself as the Son. Sometimes this one Person would reveal Himself as the Holy Spirit if the issue was regeneration and sanctification. So as Creator and Lawgiver, He would reveal Himself as the Father; as the Redeemer, He would appear as the Son; as a Regenerator and Sanctifier, He would appear as the Holy Spirit. Today, this error is taught by segments in the Christian world that are called “Jesus Only.” They say only Jesus is God, and that Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Holy Spirit. The modern teachings of Jesus Only deny the Trinity, and is a revival of ancient Sabellianism.

C. Socinianism A third heresy that plagued the Church is known as “Socinianism,” also called “Dynamic Monarchianism.” Socinianism, which devaluated the Trinity, did not see all three Persons as co equals; rather, it saw each Person of the Trinity as less than the previous Person. They taught that only the Father is God. The Son is not God; the Holy Spirit is not God; only the Father is truly God. The Son is man; the Holy Spirit is not a personality, but only a divine influence. This, too, is a common teaching among certain cultic groups.

D. Unitarianism The fourth heresy is “Unitarianism” which, very simply , denies the Trinity . It denies that the Godhead consists of three co-equal Persons. It is a denial of the tri-personality and is very similar to Judaism in this regard.

E. Tritheism The fifth heresy is called “Tritheism.” This is like Polytheism, but it limits the number of gods to three. This is a denial of the unity of the Godhead, and sees three gods rather than three personalities of the one God. While Unitarianism denies three personalities and only affirms one God, Tritheism denies the unity of the three Persons and sees them as three separate gods.

Of course, none of these five views adequately deals with the Scriptures that clearly teach the concept of a Triunity. The true biblical teaching about the Godhead must encompass three specific areas: first, “The Plurality of the Godhead,” secondly, “The Unity of the Godhead,” and thirdly, “The Trinity of the Godhead.”
 

genuineoriginal

New member
The true biblical teaching about the Godhead must encompass three specific areas: first, “The Plurality of the Godhead,” secondly, “The Unity of the Godhead,” and thirdly, “The Trinity of the Godhead.”

You can just slap the name Niceneism on this and call it a heresy too, if you want.

The first Nicene creed taught the Binity (two in one), it wasn't until the second Nicene creed that the Trinity (three in one) became a standard.

Now, unless you can show that the Scriptures taught that a person must believe in a Triune God in order to be saved, you are creating Anti-Christ divisions within the body of Christ.

There are Christians that believe Jesus is the Son of God and not the Almighty and there are Christians that believe that Jesus is one person in the Almighty.

Let each be convinced in their own mind and stop trying to use it as a shibboleth to condemn those that are not accountable to you.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
So you have removed Exodus 7:1 and John 10:34-35 from your Bible?

You understand, of course, that Moses spoke in God's stead...just as the judges were to do in the OT? They were in no way "gods", but were to be the mouthpiece of God making righteous judgments.

2 Chronicles 19:6
And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.


Deuteronomy 1:15-17
So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes. And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.​




In fact, God reminded them when they failed to do so, they should never forget that they are only men and would die like men.


Psalm 82:1-8
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
that is right, no man was worthy so God had a son who is worthy.

John 3:16

Matthew 1:18

Jesus Christ has a beginning

The point is who He was before He became flesh and dwelt among us. Hint: He was the Word...who was with God and was God. His name is the Word. John 1:1. Revelation 19:13 All things were made by Him. John 1:2-3 That's why Paul agrees with John and tells us He is before all things, and all things were created by Him.

Col. 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How pathetically egotistical.

Why do you go there? :nono:

I have been greatly blessed to see you have assurance of salvation (OSAS) thread. You inability to recognize Jesus as God leaves you with a problem. If Jesus isn't God, you have NO SAVIOUR.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.​

Don't be one God hides Himself from....be like Thomas and confess Jesus as your LORD and GOD. Jesus is Emmanuel....God with us. Look close and you will see HIM.


Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.​
 

Jason0047

Member
You can just slap the name Niceneism on this and call it a heresy too, if you want.

The first Nicene creed taught the Binity (two in one), it wasn't until the second Nicene creed that the Trinity (three in one) became a standard.

Now, unless you can show that the Scriptures taught that a person must believe in a Triune God in order to be saved, you are creating Anti-Christ divisions within the body of Christ.

There are Christians that believe Jesus is the Son of God and not the Almighty and there are Christians that believe that Jesus is one person in the Almighty.

Let each be convinced in their own mind and stop trying to use it as a shibboleth to condemn those that are not accountable to you.

You can't worship a false god and still be saved. For the Bible talks about those who preach another Jesus. Those who preach another Jesus are not saved. For there is only one Jesus. One God. One faith.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also (1 John 2:23).

If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father (1 John 2:24).

...for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins (John 8:24).

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (John 8:57-58).

Jesus said He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3 (John 8:57). This was a claim that He was God; And He said that if you do not believe in who He was, then you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one (1 John 5:7).

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9).

You also cannot worship false idols (Such as Mary) and be saved or follow a false church and be saved. Jesus is the only one that deserves all true worship. You worship something else that is not the Jesus described in the Bible and you are worshiping devils or false spirits.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it (Matthew 7:14).
 

genuineoriginal

New member
You can't worship a false god and still be saved. For the Bible talks about those who preach another Jesus. Those who preach another Jesus are not saved. For there is only one Jesus. One God. One faith.
Are you condemning all Trinitarians for refusing to accept what is actually written in the Bible, or are you condemning all non-Trinitarians for refusing to accept the hidden mysteries found by the Nicenians?
Either way, who are you to judge another's servant?

You also cannot worship false idols (Such as Mary) and be saved or follow a false church and be saved. Jesus is the only one that deserves all true worship. You worship something else that is not the Jesus described in the Bible and you are worshiping devils or false spirits.
Oh, so you are condemning all Trinitarians.

Good luck with that.
 
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