Sabbath

[keypurr]

Alas yes perhaps it is a wish...

I am grateful he persists however, as it does provide me a chance to talk about the Sabbath...

I am interested in your story into it as it sounds as if finding the Sabbath was a big change for you...

I myself grew into it as I found groups on the internet so adamantly opposed to it...made me curious...

I have become convinced that beyond attaining heaven and all its joys...keeping the Law as per instruction makes sense and provides well being already here on earth...like the Sabbath is a blessing now as it points to the good things to come...

I grew up a Baptist, became agnostic, then a Lutheran to please my wife and then a stand alone Christ follower to please my God.

I was quite active in my wife's church. But I never felt the presence of Christ there.

So I left. Now I feel the comfort of my Lord and his God in my life. My church is the world around me. I show God's love in my every day life. I am not restricted by the errors of the early church fathers.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Squeaky]

Also known as Lord of the Sabbath?

You do know how that lordship thingy works right?

I get a sense many 'round here think that a lord wishes to destroy what gives him lordship...lol

Oh and squeaky I call him by another name than Jesus or merely Lord Lord...or even LORD...

takes more than that is what He says...ya dig?

He does not wish to see what we see.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

I said
Here you have a guy who refuses to call Jesus Lord. He justifies his argument with the old testament law.
And your approving of it.

Rom 14:22
22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

 

[keypurr]

I said
Here you have a guy who refuses to call Jesus Lord. He justifies his argument with the old testament law.
And your approving of it.

Rom 14:22
22Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:1-4

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

I see him as a Christian.

I approve of the OT, with out it the new is worthless.

I am not under a yoke of bondage, I am free to sin if I wish. But that is not what Christ taught.

Circumcision has nothing to do with my relationship with God, stick to the subject matter. The Ten will never end. That's what the Lord preached so that is good enough for me.

You do not see him as a believer because your mind does not agree with his interpretation of scripture. He sees what I see, God's ten will stand forever, not one letter or dot will ever be removed from the Ten.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[clefty]

I said
Here you have a guy who refuses to call Jesus Lord. He justifies his argument with the old testament law.
And your approving of it.

Rom 14:22
22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

Calling Him by His real name is not denying Him and yes the 3rd commandment is clear don't let the name be carried in vain...as in from Sinai to Jerusalem and beyond...

Becoming circumcised was never salvific...

Circumcision was done to only boys...are girls unsaved? It's not about circumcision...Paul was clear...it was those who attempted to be justified by law which are estranged from Him...

Is not your heart circumcised? Are you not in debt to keep His Law? And in doing so are you not also keeping His Father's?

 

[Squeaky]

I see him as a Christian.

I approve of the OT, with out it the new is worthless.

I am not under a yoke of bondage, I am free to sin if I wish. But that is not what Christ taught.

Circumcision has nothing to do with my relationship with God, stick to the subject matter. The Ten will never end. That's what the Lord preached so that is good enough for me.

You do not see him as a believer because your mind does not agree with his interpretation of scripture. He sees what I see, God's ten will stand forever, not one letter or dot will ever be removed from the Ten.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

I said
That yoke is the old testament.

Gal 5:1

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
(NKJ)

Acts 15:8-10
8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Calling Him by His real name is not denying Him and yes the 3rd commandment is clear don't let the name be carried in vain...as in from Sinai to Jerusalem and beyond...

Becoming circumcised was never salvific...

Circumcision was done to only boys...are girls unsaved? It's not about circumcision...Paul was clear...it was those who attempted to be justified by law which are estranged from Him...

Is not your heart circumcised? Are you not in debt to keep His Law? And in doing so are you not also keeping His Father's?

I said
If you cant make Jesus your Lord, your denying Him. And for Christians Jesus changed the law.

Heb 7:11-12
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)

 

[keypurr]

I said
That yoke is the old testament.

Gal 5:1

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
(NKJ)

Acts 15:8-10
8"So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
9"and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10"Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NKJ)

The 600+ maybe was the yoke.

Not the ten if kept out of love.

I would think if one kept the Ten because they wished to earn their way into heaven it could be a yoke.

But if you love God and keep his law in your heart and let it guide you every day it is not a burden at all. The Sabbath is given from above, who are we to question it?

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Squeaky]

The 600+ maybe was the yoke.

Not the ten if kept out of love.

I would think if one kept the Ten because they wished to earn their way into heaven it could be a yoke.

But if you love God and keep his law in your heart and let it guide you every day it is not a burden at all. The Sabbath is given from above, who are we to question it?

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

I said
Look all I can do is share with you the revelations of Jesus Christ. Now I am sharing exactly what I received from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only guaranteed message in the whole bible. I have received over 2000 of these revelations in the past 25 years. If you want to reject them that is your choice. But it is the Word of God.
clefty is rejecting the Word the revelations all on his own opinion. He doesn't even have the Word abiding in him. Just his own opinion. That is why Israel was blinded.

Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(NKJ)

Rom 11:25
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(NKJ)

 

[keypurr]

I said
Look all I can do is share with you the revelations of Jesus Christ. Now I am sharing exactly what I received from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only guaranteed message in the whole bible. I have received over 2000 of these revelations in the past 25 years. If you want to reject them that is your choice. But it is the Word of God.
clefty is rejecting the Word the revelations all on his own opinion. He doesn't even have the Word abiding in him. Just his own opinion. That is why Israel was blinded.

Rom 12:16
16Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(NKJ)

Rom 11:25
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(NKJ)

Squeaky, twice in my life I have felt the revelations from the Holy Spirit reinforcing my thoughts. He has blessed me beyond measure with his love and understanding of scripture. Every day I learn something new, even after seventy years of reading his words.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[clefty]

The 600+ maybe was the yoke.

Not the ten if kept out of love.

I would think if one kept the Ten because they wished to earn their way into heaven it could be a yoke.

But if you love God and keep his law in your heart and let it guide you every day it is not a burden at all. The Sabbath is given from above, who are we to question it?

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

As if a yoke is a bad thing...

Domesticated animals are happy and have purpose...imagine the poor cows in Indian homeless and without owner...

Besides we are slaves bought with a price...His yoke identifies us as well cared for and yes rested lol

 

[clefty]

I said
If you cant make Jesus your Lord, your denying Him. And for Christians Jesus changed the law.

Heb 7:11-12
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)

Really do have to repeat myself don't I...it's ok...

He is my Lord as He is my Lord of the Sabbath duh...no denyin' here

As for the change of administration...we are actually now the priests...of an unchanging Law...

Because there was a change for Him to be priest and then again a change OF the law of the priesthood for us to become priests NOT a change IN the unchanging Law of God...ok? We good on that?

See that? A change OF law NOT a change IN Law

So you are not going to misuse this verse again yes?

 

[keypurr]

As if a yoke is a bad thing...

Domesticated animals are happy and have purpose...imagine the poor cows in Indian homeless and without owner...

Besides we are slaves bought with a price...His yoke identifies us as well cared for and yes rested lol

True.
My bedtime, catch you all tomorrow.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Ben Masada]

The irony is of all the commandments Remember the Sabbath day one is the only one that in the Decalogue itself lists nonisraelites and instructs foreigners to keep it and benefit from it...Even in the New Testament of all the commandments only the Sabbath was instructed to be prayed for, that it was specifically kept into the future even after He returned to heaven...And of all the commandments He basis and derives His authority on it and from it when He calls Himself Lord of the Sabbath...it is His...He made it and stole it back from the Pharisees modeling how it was intended to be kept...and instructing we do as He did...

What's the big deal about Jesus calling himself lord of the Sabbath if he did it? We are all lords of the Sabbath. Since HaShem granted us with the attribute of Freewill, we all have the power to choose to observe or not to observe the Sabbath.

 

[clefty]

What's the big deal about Jesus calling himself lord of the Sabbath if he did it? We are all lords of the Sabbath. Since HaShem granted us with the attribute of Freewill, we all have the power to choose to observe or not to observe the Sabbath.

Lol...of course you have free will and can choose to keep or not keep any of the commandments...one choice makes you obedient and representing a member of His people the other choice makes you disobedient and not a member of His people...

You do understand how the lordship thing works yes? Power and authority are ascribed or derived from that which one is a lord of...Lord Mayor of London gets his from corporate London...lord of the rings gets his from the rings...lord of the sea...the sea...you get the pattern I hope...your land made you a lord etc

The Pharisees asked by what authority He taught and from His answer they realized it too was derived from the people who called Him Lord...so they left Him alone on that point

As for lord of the Sabbath that is a big deal...

He was in essence getting His power from the Sabbath claiming He was creator author originator of it...fighting and destroying the Pharisees' man made definitions and interpretations of how and what the Sabbath was He reestablished and restored the true spirit and purpose of that set apart and sanctified day...

He reaffirmed and amplified what was given as a sign to a set apart and make a peculiar people...sanctified...His people...loyal to Him the creator...

There are other gods to choose from...many claim power and authority from nature, over life or death, wealth etc...some even claim to have created the world and sole supremacy

These gods all had rules to follow...sacrifices, rituals, feast days, laws of social conduct...other gods had don't kill don't steal don't fornicate honor parents etc

But only One gave a day of rest, cessation of labor...a sabbath...that does set Him apart

Even Israel fell for its idolatry...redefining the sabbath was part of her rejecting the Lord of the Sabbath...

Your "we are all lords of the Sabbath" denies Him too...

 

[Squeaky]

Really do have to repeat myself don't I...it's ok...

He is my Lord as He is my Lord of the Sabbath duh...no denyin' here

As for the change of administration...we are actually now the priests...of an unchanging Law...

Because there was a change for Him to be priest and then again a change OF the law of the priesthood for us to become priests NOT a change IN the unchanging Law of God...ok? We good on that?

See that? A change OF law NOT a change IN Law

So you are not going to misuse this verse again yes?

I said
Do you know what worshiping in the Spirit means?? You are still in the flesh, and you worship in the flesh. You cant be in the Spirit unless you are getting a verse to submit to.

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NKJ)

In the flesh you assume that your interpretation of a verse is the right one. In the Spirit one gets verses to discern verses. Your still interpreting them. And your wrong.
Heb 7:11-12
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)

A born again Christian demonstrates the Spirit. You cant do that.

1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

The carnal mind which you have can only come up with theology. Theology is spiritual theory, and theory is guessing.

 

[Squeaky]

Lol...of course you have free will and can choose to keep or not keep any of the commandments...one choice makes you obedient and representing a member of His people the other choice makes you disobedient and not a member of His people...

You do understand how the lordship thing works yes? Power and authority are ascribed or derived from that which one is a lord of...Lord Mayor of London gets his from corporate London...lord of the rings gets his from the rings...lord of the sea...the sea...you get the pattern I hope...your land made you a lord etc

The Pharisees asked by what authority He taught and from His answer they realized it too was derived from the people who called Him Lord...so they left Him alone on that point

As for lord of the Sabbath that is a big deal...

He was in essence getting His power from the Sabbath claiming He was creator author originator of it...fighting and destroying the Pharisees' man made definitions and interpretations of how and what the Sabbath was He reestablished and restored the true spirit and purpose of that set apart and sanctified day...

He reaffirmed and amplified what was given as a sign to a set apart and make a peculiar people...sanctified...His people...loyal to Him the creator...

There are other gods to choose from...many claim power and authority from nature, over life or death, wealth etc...some even claim to have created the world and sole supremacy

These gods all had rules to follow...sacrifices, rituals, feast days, laws of social conduct...other gods had don't kill don't steal don't fornicate honor parents etc

But only One gave a day of rest, cessation of labor...a sabbath...that does set Him apart

Even Israel fell for its idolatry...redefining the sabbath was part of her rejecting the Lord of the Sabbath...

Your "we are all lords of the Sabbath" denies Him too...

I said
When we are born again, we know we are not lords. That is if we are born again

Eph 4:4-7
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Really do have to repeat myself don't I...it's ok...

He is my Lord as He is my Lord of the Sabbath duh...no denyin' here

As for the change of administration...we are actually now the priests...of an unchanging Law...

Because there was a change for Him to be priest and then again a change OF the law of the priesthood for us to become priests NOT a change IN the unchanging Law of God...ok? We good on that?

See that? A change OF law NOT a change IN Law

So you are not going to misuse this verse again yes?

I said
You do trust in your own opinion away to much. That is theology your just guessing.
Jesus changed the law. Even common sense tells us one cant get an eye for an eye, and turn the other cheek at the same time. Its either one or the other.

Matt 5:33-48
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39 "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 "If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 "And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 "Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(NKJ)

 

[clefty]

I said
You do trust in your own opinion away to much. That is theology your just guessing.
Jesus changed the law. Even common sense tells us one cant get an eye for an eye, and turn the other cheek at the same time. Its either one or the other.

Matt 5:33-48
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39 "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 "If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 "And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 "Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(NKJ)

Just checked again and that eye for an eye thingy isn't in the 10 commandments is it...

Sabbath however is:

And when He says Matt 24: 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

He obviously intends Sabbath keeping in the future...even after He returns to heaven.

Not sure what Isaiah thinks of eye for and eye but he does say that in the new world to come all will worship Sabbath to Sabbath...

Think not He came to destroy...even by fulfillment...

All your tortured and twisted misuse of texts merely to resist a day off...

I can see you are being compelled by the Spirit as you desperately begin new threads and new angles of attack...

Even Satan knows and uses texts...but he too thinks he can add or remove from the Word and do things his way...as he chooses...

I will follow the Spirit that leads me to live and love as He did...as He asked us to do...and thus keep His Father's Law even as He did...

 

[Ben Masada]

Lol...of course you have free will and can choose to keep or not keep any of the commandments...one choice makes you obedient and representing a member of His people the other choice makes you disobedient and not a member of His people...

You do understand how the lordship thing works yes? Power and authority are ascribed or derived from that which one is a lord of...Lord Mayor of London gets his from corporate London...lord of the rings gets his from the rings...lord of the sea...the sea...you get the pattern I hope...your land made you a lord etc

The Pharisees asked by what authority He taught and from His answer they realized it too was derived from the people who called Him Lord...so they left Him alone on that point

As for lord of the Sabbath that is a big deal...

He was in essence getting His power from the Sabbath claiming He was creator author originator of it...fighting and destroying the Pharisees' man made definitions and interpretations of how and what the Sabbath was He reestablished and restored the true spirit and purpose of that set apart and sanctified day...

He reaffirmed and amplified what was given as a sign to a set apart and make a peculiar people...sanctified...His people...loyal to Him the creator...

There are other gods to choose from...many claim power and authority from nature, over life or death, wealth etc...some even claim to have created the world and sole supremacy

These gods all had rules to follow...sacrifices, rituals, feast days, laws of social conduct...other gods had don't kill don't steal don't fornicate honor parents etc

But only One gave a day of rest, cessation of labor...a sabbath...that does set Him apart

Even Israel fell for its idolatry...redefining the sabbath was part of her rejecting the Lord of the Sabbath...

Your "we are all lords of the Sabbath" denies Him too...

By saying "what's the big deal!" I had exactly that in mind. That Jesus as a Jew did not mean what you claim. He was a Jew and had no power differently from that we have. Freedom to choose, that's all and not divine power. We did not reject Jesus for what he really was but for what he is claimed to have been. That's quite different! According to the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach, the deification of a man is simply idolatry of the Greek Mythology kind. (Deuteronomy 4:15,16)

 

[meshak]

Just checked again and that eye for an eye thingy isn't in the 10 commandments is it...

There are tons and tons of things that break into the Ten.

"love your enemy" is not specifically in the Ten yet it is part of "love God".

Jesus' commands or teachings are all part of the Ten, friend.