God's Truth
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Jesus and the prophets, and the apostles are the foundation.
You are none of those people.
Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues
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Jesus and the prophets, and the apostles are the foundation.
You are none of those people.
God's Truth
New member
Prove it I worship new knowledge.
As for you saying I am not spiritual, you are a false accuser.
As for you saying tongue speaking edifies the speaker when interpreted...the scriptures say it edifies the speaker even when not interpreted.
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. That is about praying and NOT UNDERSTANDING. It does NOT mean to pray with understanding is to be not spiritual. You are without understanding and try too hard to slander. You are exactly what you falsely accused me of being.
You worship head knowledge.
Paul says you are not spiritual--
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
That is what I said.
When people disagree with you, then you accuse them of slandering, which is a sure sign of your doctrine being wrong, and you being evil.
LA
God's Truth
New member
Everything you said is not truth and it is a twisting and distortion.
I tell people they are slandering when they slander.
Here are just a few things that prove you are an accuser and slanderer and it shows you are not telling the truth about me:
oatmeal
Well-known member
Since Jesus Christ is the foundation and that foundation is done, then why did the apostles and others speak in tongues after the on the day of Pentecost and following.
Who is the foundation?
Which building's foundation are your referring to?
a. the foundation of which Jesus Christ is the cornerstone with the apostles and prophets being part of the foundation as well
b. the building whose foundation is solely Jesus Christ
Are their two buildings? or one?
oatmeal
Well-known member
God says we need to speak in tongues if we want to live powerfully.
We have the Bible, so should we quit praying with our understanding?
We have the Bible, so should loving our brethren cease?
We have the Bible, so should we quit reading the Bible?
We have the Bible, so should we quit believing the Bible?
We have the Bible, so should we quit believing on the name of Jesus Christ?
We have the Bible, so should we quit praying spiritually?
We have the Bible, so should we quit preaching and teaching to others?
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oatmeal
Well-known member
I will pray with the spirit an I will pray with my understanding also.
Who will will to do the praying? God? or the believer?
Who wills to do the praying whether it be by the spirit or by our understanding?
The individual prays as he wills.
oatmeal
Well-known member
How does John 14:12 read?
a. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that that is one of the apostles that I am sending out, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
b. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Lazarus.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Your thread is a good one.
Like any gift or truth or concept in God's word, we must learn from God's word how to best make use of what God has made available to us. This most certainly includes the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Speaking in tongues is a foreign concept for most people.
It is especially difficult to regard as viable and useful if a person has seen or heard of the despicable abuses of speaking in tongues that some groups have a reputation for.
However, abusing a good thing does not make the good thing bad, but mars the reputation of the one abusing the good.
Having a good spouse is a good thing, a good situation to be in, but if one spouse abuses the other, that does not make marriage wrong or undesirable, but it the abuse that must be avoided and rejected. Marriage is good, abusing a marriage partner is not. Seeing an abusive marriage may cause some to want to avoid marriage, but it is not marriage that is the problem, it is the lack of instruction and the corresponding believing of how marriage was set up by God to be lived.
Likewise with speaking in tongues, it is an act of believing that God enables us with that produces wonderful results. However, abusing that ability does not glorify God. Speaking tongues is still speaking in tongues even if someone abuses it, and it is still good even if it is used wrongly.
One of my "go to" saying for a situation like this is, "if all else fails, read the instructions"
Most certainly, we as believers would want God's instruction of how to utilize the manifestation of speaking in tongues how God intended for us to use it.
I find it most illuminating that on the day of Pentecost, that speaking in tongues preceded the preaching of God's word to the people. Peter and the apostles first spoke in tongues, then after it was discovered that people of various languages were able to understand what the apostles were speaking in tongues that Peter stood up with the eleven to preach. Evidently, they were seated for a time before Peter began to preach as would be the custom in an hour of prayer in the temple. They were not disorderly, they were not acting foolishly, they were not "slain in the spirit" or rolling around on the floor. They were seated out of respect to God and temple, a place of prayer.
Like any gift or truth or concept in God's word, we must learn from God's word how to best make use of what God has made available to us. This most certainly includes the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Speaking in tongues is a foreign concept for most people.
It is especially difficult to regard as viable and useful if a person has seen or heard of the despicable abuses of speaking in tongues that some groups have a reputation for.
However, abusing a good thing does not make the good thing bad, but mars the reputation of the one abusing the good.
Having a good spouse is a good thing, a good situation to be in, but if one spouse abuses the other, that does not make marriage wrong or undesirable, but it the abuse that must be avoided and rejected. Marriage is good, abusing a marriage partner is not. Seeing an abusive marriage may cause some to want to avoid marriage, but it is not marriage that is the problem, it is the lack of instruction and the corresponding believing of how marriage was set up by God to be lived.
Likewise with speaking in tongues, it is an act of believing that God enables us with that produces wonderful results. However, abusing that ability does not glorify God. Speaking tongues is still speaking in tongues even if someone abuses it, and it is still good even if it is used wrongly.
One of my "go to" saying for a situation like this is, "if all else fails, read the instructions"
Most certainly, we as believers would want God's instruction of how to utilize the manifestation of speaking in tongues how God intended for us to use it.
I find it most illuminating that on the day of Pentecost, that speaking in tongues preceded the preaching of God's word to the people. Peter and the apostles first spoke in tongues, then after it was discovered that people of various languages were able to understand what the apostles were speaking in tongues that Peter stood up with the eleven to preach. Evidently, they were seated for a time before Peter began to preach as would be the custom in an hour of prayer in the temple. They were not disorderly, they were not acting foolishly, they were not "slain in the spirit" or rolling around on the floor. They were seated out of respect to God and temple, a place of prayer.
God's Truth
New member
That is right, Lazarus was dead for four days. There are people here who claim they can do what Jesus did. Let them show where they did as Jesus did, for Jesus raised Lazarus after being dead for four days.
God's Truth
New member
So then, you claim to be another one who believes you are as the apostles and are laying the foundation.
Who then have you raised from the dead?
God's Truth
New member
Nowadays speaking in tongues is false.
Those who preach speaking in tongues do not even understand what the scriptures say about it.
There are many 'pastors' who preach HOW TO speak in tongues.
If you notice from the scriptures, no one is taught how to speak in tongues.
God's Truth
New member
That is not what the Bible says.
How do you ever get that?
Nothing you said makes sense. There is misunderstanding going on with you.
The scriptures about those in the New Testament times who actually spoke in tongues, they were to interpret for themselves and others.
Lazy tried to tell me that I was not spiritual. He/she misunderstands Paul about those who pray in the spirit and not with the mind giving understanding. The Bible tells us plainly that not everyone speaks in tongues. NOWHERE does the scriptures say that those who do not speak in tongues are not saved with the Holy Spirit.
God's Truth
New member
The foundation is Jesus Christ. The apostles are special people, they with Jesus are the foundation and laid the foundation.
There are no more apostles. An apostle is one who received the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the message from God and one who had never heard or been taught it by another.
Paul says you are not spiritual--
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
LA
God's Truth
New member
oatmeal
Well-known member
John 14:12
Jesus Christ, who always spoke what the Father told him to speak, tells us that we can do the same works as he did and greater.
I believe him.
Therefore I can do the same works as Jesus Christ and not only the same works, and according to Jesus' own words as recorded in John 14:12 I can do greater works than Jesus Christ.
Is it only I that can claim what Jesus Christ promised in John 14:12? No, everyone who believes can do so, "if you can believe, all things are possible to him that believes" Mark 9:23
However, John 14:12 does not negate or override other truths.
In John 5:30 Jesus states, "I can of myself do nothing" and "I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me" Jesus Christ did not "do his own thing" he did not rebel against God and did what he did because "if it feels good do it".... Jesus Christ did not always feel good, but he submitted his own will to the Father, he always did the Father's will not his own.
Is there any record that states that Jesus raised everyone and anyone that he wanted to? No, but we do know that he raised those who his Father directed him to raise, if John 5:30 is truth, and it is. Does scripture record that Jesus raised those who were crucified with him from the dead? No, it doesn't. We cannot assume that Jesus raised all people who died during his ministry from the dead. Well, neither can I. I am to do the will of the Father, than I must learn from the Father and receive His go ahead to do the works of Jesus Christ even as Jesus Christ learned of the Father what to do and what to say.
John 5:19-21 likewise tells us that Jesus did what the Father showed him. Interestingly, it seems that in verse 21 Jesus is claiming he raised whoever he wanted to raise. that statement and John 5:30 cannot be true for they are contradictory at face value. Since Jesus chose to do the Father's will, he was in the Father's will when he was doing what he was doing. He chose to do the Father's will so whatever the Father said he had authority to do, he was free to do.
Doing the same works does not mean doing the identical works.
I am not going to raise Lazarus from the dead again after he was dead for 4 days. I cannot go back in time.
Likewise, even as the son was subject to the Father, which is why he could so such mighty works, any believer who chooses to do the works of God including similar works and greater works that Jesus did, must forego their own will and submit to the Father's will.
For instance, if we are to cast our devils, we must submit to God, James 4:7 is one verse that makes that plain. We first submit to God, He only is all wise and knows how to best spend our time. James 4:7 is not specifically about casting out devils but if we do not submit to God we will not have the power and character to successfully resist the devil sufficiently to cause him to flee.
Jesus Christ always did the Father's will, he did not do miracles, heal people, cast out devils, teach truth perfectly on a whim or randomly or because it felt good. He obeyed his Father, Philippians 2
Likewise, we must recognize that doing the same and greater works requires a similar level of commitment and obedience and submission to the Father's will as Jesus Christ as the son of God had to his Father and our Father.
For those who have so disciplined their lives to be faithful and obedient to God's word, ie, those who believe on him, shall do the same works and greater works.
Jesus Christ did not speak in tongues during his earthly ministry, he did not "pray in the spirit", that is one of the greater works that we can do.
If God told a believer to raise someone that had been dead for ten days, and that believer obeyed, then that ten day dead person would be raised to life. But that is God's prerogative, not ours.
We are not to be high minded or think out of bounds, we are to humble ourselves to do God's will if we are to live Christ like lives. Romans 12:1-3
oatmeal
Well-known member
Are there pastors today?
Are there evangelists today?
Are there teachers today?
Then why not apostles and prophets?