Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues

[oatmeal]

The gift is the Holy Spirit.

That is the gift that scripture is speaking of.

The gift of tongues were for a sign to UNBELIEVING Jews, during the laying of the foundation.

The sign was given and the foundation has been laid.

Tongues has ceased, just as the scripture says it would.

It is fruitless for your mind to speak in tongues, WHEN NO ONE BUT GOD UNDERSTANDS, it is STILL FRUITLESS.

Speaking in tongues is for unbelieving JEWS to hear the message in their language.

Calling tongues a prayer language is from a misunderstanding of when no one is around who understands you.

We have the perfect law of Christ, the law of the Spirit, and tongues ceased.

Indeed the gift is the gift of holy spirit which enables every believer to manifest the power from on high

 

[God's Truth]

Tongues was never done away with. Let's look at what the Word says....


First of all.....non initial salvation people really have no valid say in the matters of G-d,

I do not recognize that from God’s Word. Where do you get “non initial salvation people”?

because it is a kingdom not made with hands that we are born from above into and begin our walk through the courts of the Tabernacle pattern, becoming one with the furniture as we progress. It is SPIRITUAL and those that have not awakened to life in the spiritual realm, are still asleep in the darkness of their own soul, and this is why they are still deaf, dumb, blind and lame.

There are also people who might be saved and then have gotten into false doctrines.

We meet Him in the outer court realm, this is the realm of babes and babes are washed with pure water. But the spiritual gifts are part of the inner court realm, because the inner court realm was reserved for priests only, and is as in type, the rubbing of the child with salt. Water cleanses, but salt (and the Holy Ghost by analogy) sterilizes and preserves, and also burns like fire. First we are called (outer court), then we are justified (inner court), then the final part of the process is to be glorified. As we have borne the image of the earthly, so too will we bear the image of the heavenly.

I do not believe what you are saying is accurate, for there are people who were saved and spoke in tongues, yet they still had to be taught like little children on how to properly use their gift.

Anyone that tried to breach the division between the outer court and the inner court realm of the priesthood, was put to death, which is essentially what happens when we try to approach Him through the works of our own hands. The baptism in the Holy Ghost, which is signified by the inner court realm of the priests, who are busy doing their prescribed duties for this court, comes with an anointing which is to set them apart for service, just like the priests of the original Tabernacle had.

Baptism of the Spirit is when a person is saved.

This is the realm of manifestation of healing rain for the transforming of the soul, for we are saved (spirit/outer court), soul (inner court),

That doesn’t even make sense. Our spirit is inner, and it makes our body a living soul.

and body (Holy of Holies). It is a progressive work, and this is the race that Paul talked about being set before us. This race requires the power of the Holy Ghost, for the works of the flesh of men do not qualify. This is why we are told the Holy Ghost does the works, but what works? Even to the saving of our soul, for the priest's job here is to remit sins by laying hands on the heads of the people. And they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. When you see the son of man has the POWER to remit sins (Him IN YOU), then know that the kingdom of G-d has come unto you.

The apostles had the power to remit sins that was during the laying of the foundation. The foundation was laid a long time ago.

 

[God's Truth]

2Kings 17:36 But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.

Hands speak of works, the Holy Ghost is the power part of, He has given us POWER, love and a sound mind. Just as He brought His people/chosen ones out of Egypt (a type of the flesh) with the power of His outstretched arm, so too does He begin to take us out of all the things the flesh has bound us with, by the hand of the Holy Ghost.

He is all about birthing a child, which He showed with them when He brought them through the sea of reeds. What was really happening there, according to His view, was He was birthing a child out of Egypt it's mother, and once the child was born (came through the water), He closed up the womb of Egypt declaring no more children would be birthed through the flesh, for He desired to establish a spiritual kingdom with spiritual sons, once again. In short, He cursed the womb of the flesh, for barrenness is a curse, and so He would not allow the Egyptians to also be "birthed", they became as one stillborn, one who never came out of the womb alive. No more twins with different fathers (Cain and Abel) for Him.

After this, He brought them to Mt. Sinai, which is where the fire was on the mount in pattern, and they received the Word of the Lord, which they rejected even before it came, because the flesh left to itself will always reproduce flesh, as every seed bears fruit after it's own kind, just as it did with Cain, whose father was a murderer from the beginning. But this covenant is different, in that it begins with His law being written on our heart, by the in workings of the Holy Ghost, who is as the hand of G-d separated into the works of His five "fingers", the 5 fold ministry of the works of HIM, not of individuals bearing that title. Note the order of the 3 part scripture and how POWER fits the inner court Tabernacle pattern in the order.

Matt. 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Note how the kingdom of G-d comes....

Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with POWER.

And just who is this gift of POWER for? Are you called?

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Note that they were to stay in Jerusalem until the believers RECEIVED something else....POWER.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high.

Note below that those that had already received him, to them gave he POWER to BECOME (not is) the sons of G-d. There are babes, young men, and mature sons. The inner court realm gives us the power to begin the growth process, of not staying on the milk of the Word.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Now when did that power manifest in those besides the 12?

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

How do believers abound in joy, peace and hope?

Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the POWER of the Holy Ghost.

Notice how the gospel is to be preached....

Romans 15:19 THROUGH MIGHTY SIGNS AND WONDERS, BY THE POWER OF the Spirit of G-d; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

How is our faith to stand, and what is that power again?

1Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the POWER of G-d.

Now what is the kingdom of G-d and how does it come?

1Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of G-d is not in word, but in POWER.

The "good Seed" is in us, but how is it raised?

1Cor. 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER:

Eph. 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his POWER to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty POWER,

How are we strengthened?

Col. 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious POWER, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Do you understand that you receive upon YOUR HEAD what He shed forth that was seen and heard? That at this point, you are baptized into His Spirit AS THE HOLY GHOST and He becomes your head? And that if you have THIS SPIRIT, that raised Him from the dead, then He will also quicken your mortal bodies?

Col. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and POWER:

And what is it also for?

Acts 4:33 And with great POWER gave the apostles WITNESS OF THE RESURECTION OF THE LORD Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

The choice is plain...

2Tim. 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but DENYING THE POWER thereof: from such turn away.


Forgot to add....FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES....Peace

Jesus is the Holy Spirit, and he was anointed with the Holy Spirit with power at his baptism, for his earthly ministry. The apostles too already had the Holy Spirit, given to them when Jesus breathed on them, but then they were anointed with power at Pentecost for their earthly ministry.

I can prove with scripture that baptism with the Holy Spirit, the out "pouring" of the Spirit, receiving the Holy Spirit, being saved, and speaking in tongues can all be at the same occurrence.

With all these scriptures I am going to prove my beliefs, and they are all about Cornelius and his household.

Peter says these Gentiles RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. As for Cornelius and his whole household, there is not a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit, a separate pouring out of the Holy Spirit, a separate being saved, and a separate receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on allwho heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Notice that a holy angel told Cornelius to ask Peter to come to his house so that he could HEAR what he had to say? While he and his household is hearing the message that SAVES that is when the Holy Spirit fell on them.

Cornelius and his whole household heard the message first AND then were BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit, which was proof by their gift of tongues BEFORE they were baptized with water Peter says they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. This was all after HEARING THE MESSAGE THAT SAVES.

Here is another scripture that says Cornelius was going to HEAR the message that saves.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."

Acts 11:15-16 "Just as I was starting to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'"

I have shown you with scripture that BEING SAVED, AND BEING BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, the OUT POURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT, and speaking in tongues are not necessarily separate; they can all happen at the same occurrence when one is saved. No one is saved without receiving the Holy Spirit, and that is baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, gifts could come when one is saved or after.

 

[RBBI]

Jesus is the Holy Spirit, and he was anointed with the Holy Spirit with power at his baptism, for his earthly ministry. The apostles too already had the Holy Spirit, given to them when Jesus breathed on them, but then they were anointed with power at Pentecost for their earthly ministry.

I can prove with scripture that baptism with the Holy Spirit, the out "pouring" of the Spirit, receiving the Holy Spirit, being saved, and speaking in tongues can all be at the same occurrence.

With all these scriptures I am going to prove my beliefs, and they are all about Cornelius and his household.

Peter says these Gentiles RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. As for Cornelius and his whole household, there is not a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit, a separate pouring out of the Holy Spirit, a separate being saved, and a separate receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on allwho heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Notice that a holy angel told Cornelius to ask Peter to come to his house so that he could HEAR what he had to say? While he and his household is hearing the message that SAVES that is when the Holy Spirit fell on them.

Cornelius and his whole household heard the message first AND then were BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit, which was proof by their gift of tongues BEFORE they were baptized with water Peter says they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. This was all after HEARING THE MESSAGE THAT SAVES.

Here is another scripture that says Cornelius was going to HEAR the message that saves.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."

Acts 11:15-16 "Just as I was starting to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'"

I have shown you with scripture that BEING SAVED, AND BEING BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, the OUT POURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT, and speaking in tongues are not necessarily separate; they can all happen at the same occurrence when one is saved. No one is saved without receiving the Holy Spirit, and that is baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, gifts could come when one is saved or after.

No, while you can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately with your initial salvation experience after Pentecost had come, it still can be a separate experience depending on the individual, usually depending what the individual was taught about it. Initial salvation IS NOT being filled with the Holy Ghost. Peace

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain DISCIPLES,

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

[God's Truth]

No, while you can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately with your initial salvation experience after Pentecost had come, it still can be a separate experience depending on the individual, usually depending what the individual was taught about it. Initial salvation IS NOT being filled with the Holy Ghost. Peace

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain DISCIPLES,

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

You haven't disproved anything that I said.

You bring up Apollos having a water baptism.

How do you get that disproves what I said?

 

[RBBI]

What, you can't read? They were believers/disciples who already had been baptized in water but had not received the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. Then they were prayed for and they did. They were already SAVED, in other words, yet didn't have the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. And the question they were asked alone, proves this was possible. Have YOU received since ye believed? Peace

 

[God's Truth]

What, you can't read? They were believers/disciples who already had been baptized in water but had not received the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. Then they were prayed for and they did. They were already SAVED, in other words, yet didn't have the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. And the question they were asked alone, proves this was possible. Have YOU received since ye believed? Peace

We are saved when we are given the Holy Spirit.

 

[RBBI]

Yes, we are SAVED when we are given the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean you've received the Holy Ghost and His gifts automatically. They are not mutually INclusive as I showed you in the above texts. Peace

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

What, you can't read? They were believers/disciples who already had been baptized in water but had not received the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. Then they were prayed for and they did. They were already SAVED, in other words, yet didn't have the baptism in the Holy Ghost yet. And the question they were asked alone, proves this was possible. Have YOU received since ye believed? Peace

Seems Jesus wished he didn't have to suffer that.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, we are SAVED when we are given the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean you've received the Holy Ghost and His gifts automatically. They are not mutually INclusive as I showed you in the above texts. Peace

If a person hasn't received the Holy Spirit, then they are not saved. I gave scriptures proving that.

 

[oatmeal]

If a person hasn't received the Holy Spirit, then they are not saved. I gave scriptures proving that.

That is true.

However, the proof positive that we have received the gift is by the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is the proof in the five senses that we have received the gift.

Many who have received the gift still have doubts, they want to know, but they do not know for sure.

The proof is in the using of the gift by manifesting the gift by way of speaking in tongues.

 

[God's Truth]

That is true.

However, the proof positive that we have received the gift is by the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is the proof in the five senses that we have received the gift.

Many who have received the gift still have doubts, they want to know, but they do not know for sure.

The proof is in the using of the gift by manifesting the gift by way of speaking in tongues.

Not everyone spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:5).