ECT Romans 11:25-36 can't be erased (Israel's Vision will be restored)

[God's Truth]

If you don't know what a Jew is, I can't help you.

Go ahead and explain what a Jew is.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

John 8:39
"Abraham is our father," they replied. "If you were children of Abraham," said Jesus, "you would do the works of Abraham.

 

[God's Truth]

Until you learn that all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews, you will continue your mass confusion.

HINT:

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Aaron,were not Jews. The word "Jew" didn't even exist when they were alive.

Romans 11 references Elijah. Elijah was never a Jew.

Well, if you call the children Jews then you call the father a Jew too.

 

[Danoh]

(Rom 2:29) No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code....

Nope, You incompetent.

In Romans 1:18-3:20, Paul is speaking within the context of how both Gentile and Jew ended up under condemnation.

Towards that, in that part of Romans 2, he is asserting how that even the LOST Gentile: who every so often did right in the sight of God made the circumcised, supposedly nigh unto God Jew look Uncircumcised in heart towards God.

He is not talking about who is saved there; but why they are both without hope...til he gets to Romans 3:21's great Dispensational change "But now..."

But you are an incompetent...

 

[God's Truth]

Nope, You incompetent.

In Romans 1:18-3:20, Paul is speaking within the context of how both Gentile and Jew ended up under condemnation.

Towards that, in that part of Romans 2, he is asserting how that even the LOST Gentile: who every so often did right in the sight of God made the circumcised, supposedly nigh into God Jew look Uncircumcised in heart towards God.

He is not talking about who is saved there; but why they are both without hope...til he gets to Romans 3:21's great Dispensational change "But now..."

But you are an incompetent...

Many Jews missed their Messiah and even killed him because they were doing what you do, and that is to care more about the earthy than what is spiritual.

The Jews who miss him now, it is because they are earthy and not spiritual.

The Gentiles who miss him now, it is because they are earthy and not spiritual.

 

[God's Truth]

The 7,000 in Romans 11 who did not bow to Baal, were not Jews.

They were blood related to Abraham.

 

[tetelestai]

til he gets to Romans 3:21's great Dispensational change "But now..."

Keep reading the verse Danoh:

"....has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."

Don't know how anyone can read Romans 3, and still claim God has a special plan for the Jews.

However, that's what you Darby Followers do.

 

[Danoh]

You Darby Followers crack me up sometimes.

What happened to your two gospels?

You mean Two aspects of the gospel of Christ?

But you are an incompetent.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12.

 

[Danoh]

Keep reading the verse Danoh:

"....has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."

Don't know how anyone can read Romans 3, and still claim God has a special plan for the Jews.

However, that's what you Darby Followers do.

Whoops, I've gone a few posts there and forgotten to thank you for mentioning Darby.

The more astute will read right past your obvious incompetence and go and look up Darby on their own.

After all, not many can say they were coming to his kinds of distinctions before ever hearing of Dispensationalism, like I had been able to, prior to ever hearing of Dispensationalism.

But you are an incompetent.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

 

[7Spirits]

The only verse I need is this one, Israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8 ! No promises are made to them no more than made to Russia!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

Full context in exegesis refutes you and you clearly avoided the fact that Israel is still Israel and remains unreplaced.

You can't produce the scripture I challenged you to find.

 

[7Spirits]

The Jews exist because GOD LOVED ABRAHAM and promised ABRAHAM.

God loved Abraham because Abraham obeyed everything that God told him to do.

God gave the promises to Abraham because Abraham obeyed everything God said to do.

God promised earthy things for Abraham, and spiritual things.

God promised that the Savior would be BLOOD related to Abraham.

All the Jews are actual blood relations to Abraham.

Since Jesus was born, God no longer cares about blood relations, except those blood related to Jesus Christ. That is, except for those who come to God through Jesus in repentance of sins.

No direct exegesis or supporting scripture. OP topic is Romans 11:25-36

 

[7Spirits]

Go ahead and explain what a Jew is.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

John 8:39
"Abraham is our father," they replied. "If you were children of Abraham," said Jesus, "you would do the works of Abraham.

Nowhere does this say Abraham is Israel and you are beginning to contradict Romans 9 while supporting some of the OP point.

 

[7Spirits]

Nope, you incompetent; Romans 9-11 is the Lord's return to His point through the pen of the Apostle Paul they both mention at the beginning of Romans 3.

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Romans 9 basically further elaborates on that by laying out a series of examples out of Israel's past rebellions wherein though it had appeared that God was through with Israel; such had ALSO not been the case.

How that it had only looked that way but actually; the LORD had been doing something else DURING their disobedience and His TEMPORARY turn from them for their disobedience, PRIOR TO His turning back to them: FIRST by pouring out His wrath, AT LAST - FOLLOWED BY His blessing them - because - He - IS - Sovereign, and is on His Own Clock, Acts 1:7.

Romans 9's "As He saith ALSO in Osee" is just one more of those examples the Lord through the pen of the Apostle Paul has been making use of, throughout Romans 9.

And the question there is...

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

It anticipates rebellious Israel's heart attitude - "what now; what's He waiting for now?"

You are an incompetent.

:thumb:

 

[7Spirits]

There is no point in getting into a a long quarrel with a Christian Zionist over the issues of Romans 11: 25-26. Present a substantive argument and leave it at that. If you do allow yourself to get into such a prolonged quarrel, you allow yourself to be gamed by your opponent. A part of any ministry to Christian Zionists is to try to teach the type of arguments they make to defend and promote their theology. Though they never admit that they are using such a type of argument or quarrel, others can learn from such a discussion about their use of the dialectic.

Translation...

Preterists avoid discussion of Romans 11:25-36 with biblical scholars at all costs.

 

[7Spirits]

You Darby Followers crack me up sometimes.

What happened to your two gospels?

Please stay on OP topic.

 

[tetelestai]

Translation...

Preterists avoid discussion of Romans 11:25-36 with biblical scholars at all costs.

:rotfl:

Darby Followers are not Biblical Scholars.

 

[tetelestai]

OP topic is Romans 11:25-36

(Gen 48:19) And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'

(Rom 11:25) For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits -- that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in;

It happened in the first century.

Romans 11:27 was fulfilled. Christ Jesus made the New Covenant, the sins were taken away.

You've been brainwashed by Dispensationalism.

 

[7Spirits]

Nope. You're just another Darby Follower who is clueless when it comes to the Old Testament.

(Rom 9:24) even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Then Paul quotes Hosea 2:23.

Hosea 2:23 is not about Jews. It was written to the Israelites from the 10 tribes (House of Israel).

Paul says "not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles". Paul was making it clear that the Gentiles who were being called were the descendants of the House of Israel.

Paul was a Jew. Some Jews were being called. Paul then tells these non-Jewish Romans that they too were being called. That again, proves that these non-Jewish Romans were descendants of the Israelites from the House of Israel.

This is not exegesis and you still can't address OP topic without attempting to contradict yourself. You just contradicted yourself about the Jews and Hosea refutes you in full when quoted in full.

You have difficulty with contextual evaluation and OP topic. The OP remains unaddressed and fully unrefuted.

It's structural argument is supported by every attacking post.

 

[7Spirits]

:rotfl:

Darby Followers are not Biblical Scholars.

You still can't address the entire OP. Please stay on OP topic.

 

[7Spirits]

(Gen 48:19) And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'

(Rom 11:25) For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits -- that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in;

It happened in the first century.

Romans 11:27 was fulfilled. Christ Jesus made the New Covenant, the sins were taken away.

You've been brainwashed by Dispensationalism.

This is a joke, right? No theologian with any self respect would take a tribal reference and attempt to bind it to the word gentile which is clearly in the lexicon for the word you are attempting to be deceitful about here.

 

[tetelestai]

This is a joke, right?

Nope, it's from Young's Literal Translation Bible.

No theologian with any self respect would take a tribal reference and attempt to bind it to the word gentile

The word "Gentiles" in Rom 11:25 is Strong's #1484 (ethnos).

1484 ethnos {eth'-nos} probably from 1486; TDNT 2: 364, 201; n n AV -- Gentiles 93, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2; 164

"ethnos" is the Greek equivalent of Hebrew word "goy".

Both "ethnos" and "goy" mean "Nations".

"ethnos" is used in Rom 11:25, and "goy" is used in Gen 48:19. They are the same word.

If you understood this, you wouldn't be so confused about Rom 11:25.

BTW, there are only two New Testaments written in the Hebrew language, and both use the same exact word in Genesis 48:19 and Romans 11:25.