ECT Romans 11:25-36 can't be erased (Israel's Vision will be restored)

[7Spirits]

(Gal 4:26) But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

Is it anti-Semitic to say the Jerusalem in the Middle East means nothing, and that the Jerusalem that is above is the mother of us all?

This only proves that this is the gentile age and Jerusalem of Heaven is for the BOC, while Israel is in slavery.

It says Jerusalem, not Israel.

Please admit you are unable to exegete and address what I have asked.

What about the rest of the Israelites who were never Jews?

What happened to them?

Again, you are trying to avoid my question and the op topic.

LOL....nowhere in Romans chapter 11 will you find the words "Jew" or "Jews".

If you don't know what a Jew is, I can't help you.

(Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Again,

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

Spoiler

Here it is again:

(Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

Er, no.

(Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.

Let's do this again.

Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.

Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?

Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant, those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

Yet, you Darby Followers keep looking to the flesh.

(2 Cor 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:...

Why do you keep looking to the flesh, when Paul said not to?

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

Please be honest with scripture friend.

I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

 

[7Spirits]

(Rom 2:29) No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code....

Again, the Jews are partially blind. Per OP.

You seem to be stumped.

What about the rest of the Israelites who were never Jews?

What happened to them?

Again, you are trying to avoid my question and the op topic.

LOL....nowhere in Romans chapter 11 will you find the words "Jew" or "Jews".

If you don't know what a Jew is, I can't help you.

(Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Again,

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

Spoiler

Here it is again:

(Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

Er, no.

(Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.

Let's do this again.

Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.

Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?

Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant, those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

Yet, you Darby Followers keep looking to the flesh.

(2 Cor 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:...

Why do you keep looking to the flesh, when Paul said not to?

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

Please be honest with scripture friend.

I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

 

[tetelestai]

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

The Old Covenant was replaced, by the New Covenant.

God is not going back to the Old Covenant. There isn't going to be a third temple. God isn't going to gather "the Jews" back to the Middle East. The law of Moses isn't going to be in place again. The Aaronic priesthood isn't coming back.

Peter understood this early on:

(Acts 10:34) Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

Yet, you still think God looks to the flesh, and favors the Jews.

 

[tetelestai]

while Israel is in slavery.

Until you learn the difference between a Jew and an Israelite, it is pointless discussing anything with you.

(Hosea 1:6-7) ...for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. 7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,...

Learn the difference between the two houses, then you might be able to understand Romans 9-11.

 

[northwye]

There is no point in getting into a a long quarrel with a Christian Zionist over the issues of Romans 11: 25-26. Present a substantive argument and leave it at that. If you do allow yourself to get into such a prolonged quarrel, you allow yourself to be gamed by your opponent. A part of any ministry to Christian Zionists is to try to teach the type of arguments they make to defend and promote their theology. Though they never admit that they are using such a type of argument or quarrel, others can learn from such a discussion about their use of the dialectic.

 

[Tambora]

Please cite one book that doesn't mention the Jews in any form.

LOL....nowhere in Romans chapter 11 will you find the words "Jew" or "Jews".

[MENTION=20099]7Spirits[/MENTION]
This is what Tet does .....
You ask for dog, he drags up a cat.
(You ask for a book, he drags up a chapter.)
He has a real bad habit of going off in every direction and dragging up every preterist rabbit hole he can muster up instead of providing what was actually asked for.

Good thread topic, and good job not letting Tet drag you off down some rabbit hole.

 

[Tambora]

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

Would you?
I would like to see it.

 

[beloved57]

Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?

The only verse I need is this one, Israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8 ! No promises are made to them no more than made to Russia!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Danoh]

(Rom 9:25) As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,

Paul quoted Hosea.

Since you're a Darby Follower, I can guarantee you that you have no idea who Paul was speaking about.

Nope, you incompetent; Romans 9-11 is the Lord's return to His point through the pen of the Apostle Paul they both mention at the beginning of Romans 3.

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Romans 9 basically further elaborates on that by laying out a series of examples out of Israel's past rebellions wherein though it had appeared that God was through with Israel; such had ALSO not been the case.

How that it had only looked that way but actually; the LORD had been doing something else DURING their disobedience and His TEMPORARY turn from them for their disobedience, PRIOR TO His turning back to them: FIRST by pouring out His wrath, AT LAST - FOLLOWED BY His blessing them - because - He - IS - Sovereign, and is on His Own Clock, Acts 1:7.

Romans 9's "As He saith ALSO in Osee" is just one more of those examples the Lord through the pen of the Apostle Paul has been making use of, throughout Romans 9.

And the question there is...

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

It anticipates rebellious Israel's heart attitude - "what now; what's He waiting for now?"

You are an incompetent.

 

[God's Truth]

Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

The whole Old Testament was a prophecy, an anti type of Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?



Let's do this again.





Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

Do you not understand that Jews were cut off? Not all Jews were cut off, just some. Tell me what some were cut off and why, then maybe you will start to understand.

 

[God's Truth]

Exegete 9 in full please and let's see who Paul is calling Israel.

There is what it spiritual, and there is what is earthy, fleshy.

 

[tetelestai]

It anticipates rebellious Israel's heart attitude - "what now; what's He waiting for now?"

Nope. You're just another Darby Follower who is clueless when it comes to the Old Testament.

(Rom 9:24) even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Then Paul quotes Hosea 2:23.

Hosea 2:23 is not about Jews. It was written to the Israelites from the 10 tribes (House of Israel).

Paul says "not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles". Paul was making it clear that the Gentiles who were being called were the descendants of the House of Israel.

Paul was a Jew. Some Jews were being called. Paul then tells these non-Jewish Romans that they too were being called. That again, proves that these non-Jewish Romans were descendants of the Israelites from the House of Israel.

 

[tetelestai]

Romans 9's "As He saith ALSO in Osee" is just one more of those examples the Lord through the pen of the Apostle Paul has been making use of, throughout Romans 9.

You Darby Followers crack me up sometimes.

What happened to your two gospels?

 

[God's Truth]

Again,

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

Spoiler

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?



Let's do this again.





Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

The Jews exist because GOD LOVED ABRAHAM and promised ABRAHAM.

God loved Abraham because Abraham obeyed everything that God told him to do.

God gave the promises to Abraham because Abraham obeyed everything God said to do.

God promised earthy things for Abraham, and spiritual things.

God promised that the Savior would be BLOOD related to Abraham.

All the Jews are actual blood relations to Abraham.

Since Jesus was born, God no longer cares about blood relations, except those blood related to Jesus Christ. That is, except for those who come to God through Jesus in repentance of sins.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

Please be honest with scripture friend.

Israel of the flesh no longer matters, for they are the people who are cut off and bound over to the same place as every person who is not in God...they are condemned with the rest of the world.

 

[God's Truth]

Again,

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

Spoiler

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?



Let's do this again.





Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

Please be honest with scripture friend.

I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

Be honest and look to what your opponent is saying.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,

 

[God's Truth]

How are cut off people who are condemned held in such prestigious places in people's hearts and minds?

The Jews today do not even obey the commandments of God as given to Moses.

The Jews today are just regular ole sinners like any ole Gentile.

 

[God's Truth]

Thank you.

And to answer your question, God never breaks His promises and preterists and replacement advocates are anti Semitic and contrary to all scripture, which is about the Jews.

If Jewish failure voids God's promises to Jacob's people, then we have no hope.

God gave all the earthy promises to Israel. The whole old testament is an ANTI TYPE OF CHRIST JESUS.

Don't you get that by now?

Everything earthy will be completely destroyed, it means nothing.

We must be spiritual.

 

[God's Truth]

Again, Hosea is a complete book and it does not support your fragmented use of it or Romans 9 Either.

I ask you again...



Again,

Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

Spoiler

That is not the context of that verse.

Again... could you please quote scripture properly?



Let's do this again.





Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

So, what now?

I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

Please be honest with scripture friend.

I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

You keep asking for debate, but then when a person gives their argument, you merely say the same thing repeatedly and do not address deeply what they say.

Actually read and reply to what I said with more than just no:

Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.