The word means non Jew. It is Goyum.
I'm hoping you are kidding. No honest person would even hint at the distortion you are hinting at.
ECT Romans 11:25-36 can't be erased (Israel's Vision will be restored)
- Thread starter 7Spirits
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The word means non Jew. It is Goyum.
I'm hoping you are kidding. No honest person would even hint at the distortion you are hinting at.
No, it means "nation".
There was no such thing as a Jew when Genesis was written.
Paul is not referring to Jews in Romans 11:25. Paul is referring to the Israelites from the House of Israel.
Those Israelites were NEVER Jews. They were the fulness of the nations.
Yo, incompetent, as used in Scripture; the word goy refers to an ethnos or a nation, while goyim is it's plural, ethnicities, or nations.
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation (וְג֣וֹי goy, nation). These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
In other words, you incompetent; Israel is also a goy, an ethnicity, or a nation - overall narrative, scope and context determines which is being referred to, by whom...
And blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fullness of Israel be come in is NOT what that passage is asserting.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
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:BRAVO:
God's Truth
New member
I asked you to explain what a Jew was.
" 25 I would not that this secret should be hid from you my brethren, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits: that partly blindness is happened in Israel, until the fullness of the gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved. As it is written, "There shall come out of Zion he that doth deliver, and shall turn away the ungodliness of Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are loved for the fathers' sake."
The Christian Zionist or dispenszationalist interpretation of this is that when all Gentiles God intends to save are saved, then God will save all Israel, meaning all who belong the physical blood line from Abraham.
To the Christian Zionist all Israel - the multitude of Old Covenant Israel - cannot mean that all of the elect, regardless of their DNA, are said to be Israel and are saved.
Christian Zionism separates those of the physical bloodline from all others, called the Gentiles. And Christian Zionism says God has another people called the Church. In the New Testament church is a translation of ekklesia, meaning a meeting, assembly or congregation. There seems to be a confusion in Christian Zionism on whether saved Jews belong to the church, but usually the Christian Zionists just say they too are Israel, but no saved Gentile can be part of Israel, the chosen by the physical bloodline.
It seems that Christian Zionists think that Romans 11: 28 supports their theology shown briefly above.
But Paul in Romans 11: 28 does not explain who "they" are who are enemies for you sakes concerning the Gospel, but concerning election "they" are beloved for the sakes of the Fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He means those of Old Covenant Israel as "they." But how are "they" as the same people both enemies of the Gospel for the sake of Gentile believers, and beloved by the Fathers concerning their election? Paul is talking about two different groups of Old Covenant people, one whose religion makes them enemies of the Gospel and another group who are the remnant and are the elect (Romans 11: 1-5).
Remember that in Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes about two groups who are both of the physical bloodline, one he calls children of the flesh who are not the children of God and another group the children of the promise who are the seed, that is, the elect group.
But Romans 11: 25-26 has to be kept in a separate compartment in order to prevent other New Testament scriptures from making evident and outstanding in perception different and opposite doctrines.
Remember that the Christian Zionist view that the multitude of Old Covenant Israel is to be saved in Romans 11: 26 depends upon them being recognized by God as being of the chosen physical bloodline. Any New Testament scripture which teaches that the physical bloodline was done away with in the New Covenant undermines Christian Zionism.
"Are ye so unwise, that after ye have begun in the spirit, ye would now end in the flesh?.......... Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was ascribed to him for righteousness." 7 Understand, therefore, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 For the scripture saw aforehand, that God would justify the heathen through faith, and therefore showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham: "In thee shall all nations be blessed." 9 So then, they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.............. But Christ hath delivered us from the curse of the law, and was made accursed for us — for it is written, "Cursed is everyone that hangeth on tree" — 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith. 1........To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "in the seeds," as in many: But, "in thy seed," as in one, which is Christ. 17 This I say, that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed afore of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise............. For ye are all the sons of God, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 27 For all ye that are baptised, have put on Christ. 28 Now is there no Jew, neither gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither man nor woman: but ye are all one thing in Christ Jesus. 29 If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs by promise." Galatians 3.
The Christian Zionist or dispenszationalist interpretation of this is that when all Gentiles God intends to save are saved, then God will save all Israel, meaning all who belong the physical blood line from Abraham.
To the Christian Zionist all Israel - the multitude of Old Covenant Israel - cannot mean that all of the elect, regardless of their DNA, are said to be Israel and are saved.
Christian Zionism separates those of the physical bloodline from all others, called the Gentiles. And Christian Zionism says God has another people called the Church. In the New Testament church is a translation of ekklesia, meaning a meeting, assembly or congregation. There seems to be a confusion in Christian Zionism on whether saved Jews belong to the church, but usually the Christian Zionists just say they too are Israel, but no saved Gentile can be part of Israel, the chosen by the physical bloodline.
It seems that Christian Zionists think that Romans 11: 28 supports their theology shown briefly above.
But Paul in Romans 11: 28 does not explain who "they" are who are enemies for you sakes concerning the Gospel, but concerning election "they" are beloved for the sakes of the Fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He means those of Old Covenant Israel as "they." But how are "they" as the same people both enemies of the Gospel for the sake of Gentile believers, and beloved by the Fathers concerning their election? Paul is talking about two different groups of Old Covenant people, one whose religion makes them enemies of the Gospel and another group who are the remnant and are the elect (Romans 11: 1-5).
Remember that in Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes about two groups who are both of the physical bloodline, one he calls children of the flesh who are not the children of God and another group the children of the promise who are the seed, that is, the elect group.
But Romans 11: 25-26 has to be kept in a separate compartment in order to prevent other New Testament scriptures from making evident and outstanding in perception different and opposite doctrines.
Remember that the Christian Zionist view that the multitude of Old Covenant Israel is to be saved in Romans 11: 26 depends upon them being recognized by God as being of the chosen physical bloodline. Any New Testament scripture which teaches that the physical bloodline was done away with in the New Covenant undermines Christian Zionism.
"Are ye so unwise, that after ye have begun in the spirit, ye would now end in the flesh?.......... Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was ascribed to him for righteousness." 7 Understand, therefore, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 For the scripture saw aforehand, that God would justify the heathen through faith, and therefore showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham: "In thee shall all nations be blessed." 9 So then, they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.............. But Christ hath delivered us from the curse of the law, and was made accursed for us — for it is written, "Cursed is everyone that hangeth on tree" — 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith. 1........To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "in the seeds," as in many: But, "in thy seed," as in one, which is Christ. 17 This I say, that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed afore of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise............. For ye are all the sons of God, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 27 For all ye that are baptised, have put on Christ. 28 Now is there no Jew, neither gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither man nor woman: but ye are all one thing in Christ Jesus. 29 If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs by promise." Galatians 3.
God's Truth
New member
I already addressed that. I will gladly tell you again:
Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.
It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.
However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.
Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
A part of Israel was blinded until the rest of Israel (fullness of the nations) came into the New Covenant.
All of Israel could now be saved.
Prior to the cross, the Israelites from the 10 tribes were out of covenant with God.
lol - you're hopelessly stuck in your incompetence.
You're as bad as dodge ever in his same dishonest shape shifting, deflecting, and coming up with straws out of thin air; each time he is cornered with his obvious incompetence.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11
No scripture that says Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants. Actually, 9-11 says Israel remains Jacob's people. It divides it by believing Israel and unbelieving Israel, hence partial Blindness.
I will respect the time you put into this. All who evaluate this should.
I will answer when time permits close study.
Yes! True!
God's Truth
New member
What don't you get about some people being cut off?
What don't you get about Romans 11:25-36 agreeing with you and emphasizing a coming regrafting? You just helped the OP.
Thank you
Natural branches is where all rebuttal falls flat on its face.
God's Truth
New member
Why do you keep ignoring what else I say?
The only way to get grafted back in is to believe in Jesus.
The Jews nowadays were never in.
So they don't get grafted 'back' in.
Jews get grafted in just like all do.
God's Truth
New member
No, not sort of.
Jews who go through Jesus are those who acknowledge that Jesus is the King of EVERYONE.
You are stuck in idolatry, idolizing people because of your misunderstanding.
Sort of.
Do you know what INRI means?
Sort of.
Do you know what INRI means?
So, you don't know what INRI means?
Do you know what INRI means?
Sort of.
Do you know what INRI means?
So, you don't know what INRI means?
We get it. You don't.
Ez. 36:21-34 KJV
But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
Ez. 37:21-22 KJV
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
Ez. 39:25-29 KJV
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
God's Truth
New member
Some Jews were CUT OFF when Jesus came and bound over to the place with the Gentiles.
The Jews who were not cut off, they BELIEVED in Jesus and were saved!