Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
That is true, but it is not the same thing.I know, but you don't know Jesus is God, either.
Rosenritter
New member
Are you replying from a phone? It's OK to wait until you have a right keyboard and have space for explanation.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, I'm just trying to help you out, Jacob. Just as I am when I tell you Jesus is God. You can take it to the bank, or leave it outside in the cold to get rained on.
Romans 7
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
Paul's argument in Romans 7, is that just as death is the only "force" that can free, liberate from the claims of sin, so, too, is it the only thing that can liberate/free from the burdensome, thunderous(Exodus 19:16 KJV.....Children of Israel under "bondage"...Mt. Sinai......=Romans 15:4 KJV)claims of the law.
Thus, Paul provides another analogy(Romans 6-master/slave), employing the husband and wife.A marriage contract, at that time, could only be dissolved by death. 2 husbands-the Lord Jesus Christ, and the law. Union with the law results in bondage, -death...." to bring forth fruit unto death."(verse 5).In contrast, union with the other husband, the Lord Jesus Christ, produces freedom, and brings forth fruit unto God(verse 4).
Thus, if the husband dies, the wife is free from that "contract." Get it?
But the contract/law, still EXISTS.
When we die to sin, we also die to the law. The law can no longer prosecute us,and we are no longer under its jurisdiction, because, in the eyes of the law, we are dead.You cannot prosecute a dead person.
Dead. No charges can be brought. Justice served.....The existing law cannot condemn us...
Thus, Paul reasons that being identified with Christ, in His death, burial frees him from death, as his "king", Romans chapter 5, frees him from sins as a master/"slave driver", Romans chapter 6, and frees him from the law, the contract(marriage) as a husband, not being bound to it any longer, as the wife is not, when her husband dies.
As one preacher taught me, summarizing Romans 5 through 7:
Romans 5: Deals with sin on a person
Romans 6: Deals with sin over(control) a person
Romans 7:Sin in a person, i.e., desperation
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You read and quote scripture, but you have no understanding. You have every indication that you are void of the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.
Paul said, "But now we are delivered from the law" Romans 7:6".
The word "delivered" means that we are no longer under it, or that it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
"That being dead wherein we were held".
To be held by the law is death.
"That we should serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (law).
Why? Because the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit brings life, 2 Corinthians 3:6.
All I have is a phone, but I can use a computer from time to time.
I do not know what that means. However, I may be able to respond to this. In other words I have said before that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and Jesus is God. I do not know which to say first, but this reflects on the fact that I do not necessarily know what I mean when I say that Jesus is God. I have the Bible. And I have that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him in bodily form might be that or as He is the only begotten Son of God or He is the Son of God.
Rosenritter
New member
I agree that is an inconsistent argument. However, the existence of bad arguments for a partial Old Covenant does not prove the current existence of a whole Old Covenant. The correct application of the Old Covenant is to point to the fulfillment of the law, not to argue that the Old Covenant is directly applicable in whole or only in part.
But you do agree that the Ten Commandments are part of the Old Covenant, and that the nature of a covenant is that it is made between two people? So if God and Israel make a covenant between them, is that covenant applicable to Egypt? or Syria? or Russia? or Australia? Or is the covenant applicable and in force between those that make the covenant, God and Israel?
So when would the Sabbath commandment be applicable to non-natives? Wouldn't that be when those non-natives would be under Israelite jurisdiction? I cannot ever recall God chastising other peoples (that were not Israel) for failure to keep any Sabbaths.
There is a new covenant, and the former covenant with Israel is rendered old.
Hebrews 8:13 KJV
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
... and just to clarify the context, this is a different covenant than the first.
Hebrews 8:6-11 KJV
(6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Repeating for clarification, the new covenant is not the former covenant, and the new covenant is not like the former covenant.
Pardon me, but that which you say is written doesn't appear in my text. Are you able to highlight where it says "let no one but the body of Christ judge you in these things" in the passage below?
Colossians 2:14-17 KJV
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Considering that he just stated that the ordinances were "blotted out" his following statement of "let no man therefore judge you ... in respect of an holy day... or of the sabbath days" could hardly be construed as saying these were currently applicable. "Blotted out" is not a word of enactment or inclusion. When God "blots out" names from the book of life, does that mean that they shall live for ever?
There's nothing wrong with being eager to meet on sabbath days. Paul also specifically defends those that might esteem one day above another.
Romans 14:4-6 KJV
(4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Now again, it would seem very strange for Paul to say "...and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it... " if the commandment of the Lord was to regard those certain days. So that would make twice where the specific words of Paul speak on the subject of holy day and sabbaths, each time stating that these are not things that Christians should be judged by (either for or against.)
Now I realize that some here take no heed of what Paul says here and would rage and launch all sorts of accusations against you for regarding the day unto the Lord... but between you and I, should we not listen to Paul and not judge each other by something as trivial as sabbaths and new moons? You regard the day, and you regard it to the Lord, I regard not the day, and to the Lord I doth not regard it.
Would you prohibit Christians from meeting on any day but a seventh day sabbath or an annual sabbath calculated from new moons?
And in the context of what we have just seen, that the former covenant is rendered old and ready to pass away, and that Christians are not to be judged according to new moons or sabbaths, and that those that regard not the day are not spoken of ill in any way, do you really have something to be upset about here?
OK, Stephen spoke of the church in the wilderness. And I don't see how this connects.
Are we reading the same book of Acts? There's plenty of mention of where they were considering whether Gentiles were bound under the Old Covenant. It's called the circumcision, and the law of Moses.
Acts 15:5 KJV
(5) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Now look at Peter's response:
Acts 15:8-11 KJV
(8) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(9) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Peter speaks of that old covenant, the circumcision, and the law of Moses... as "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples" that should not be placed upon them, even stating that to do so would be "to tempt God." He further says that Jew and Gentile alike are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
And what do they actually state? Do they say that the Gentiles must abstain from unclean meats? Do they say that they must keep the Ten Commandments (or even Nine Commandments?)
Acts 15:19-20 KJV
(19) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
(20) But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
The Gentiles are instructed to remove themselves from things that were associated with demon worship. If "the Sabbath" was a matter of importance to them as much as it seems to be to you right now, you can bet they would have said "and keep the Sabbath holy" or such because the next sabbath would be no less than six days away.
Oh, yes. Jesus is the vine, the native branches of Israel were broken off , and the wild branches of the Gentiles were graffed in. If those that were the native branches are to obtain life, they need to be graffed in just as the wild branches were. And there is a mention of a covenant there, but which covenant is that? The old covenant, or the better covenant that is also called new?
Romans 11:26-27 KJV
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
If we take heed of the message of Hebrews earlier, the covenant brought by He which came out of Sion called Deliver that takes away their sins makes a new covenant in his blood, and it is not like the old covenant.
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=word=for=word copy'npaste spam, that you, in demonic intoxication, say to everyone, you Catholic fruit inspector, deceiver.
Yes. we are delivered from it, you intoxicated, messed up mind lunatic, but you, as usual, in your dementia mind, lie again, asserting that "delivered from, means "abolished," and satanically, spam that Ephesians 2:15 KJV means that the holy, good, spiritual law of God has been abolished, destroyed, made void, eliminated, as you lie again, 'one verse in isolation" ist con artist, flipping the bird at God the father, the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, and countless other members of the boc, that asserts just the opposite, you vile devil child.
Pate: do not be held by the law, even though that is impossible, since the law no longer exists=the demonic lunacy of this dementia filled, habitual liar.
Pate: The law kills, even though that is impossible, since the law no longer exists=the demonic lunacy of this dementia filled, habitual liar.
Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Why are you lying Pate? Pauls says "we,", i.e., Christians, do not make void the law.
Tell all of TOL the motivation for your lying, asserting that the law has been made void.
Go ahead, Pate, as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you, admitted follower of your father, the devil.
And go ahead, Pate, and tell all of TOL, as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you,why murder, sodomy, theft, covetousness,................ are wrong, a sin, a transgression, if there is no objective standard, law, marking it, defining them, as such.
Go ahead, Pate.
I will give you, a "soft ball," for over the 100th time:
Why is murder wrong?
Answer, Pate.
And, since you have claimed, on record, that you commit sins, everyday, tell us how that is possible, if there is no objective standard, law, marking what you say are sins, defining them, as such.
Not a peep from you, for years.
And tell us, Pate, who gives you the authority, to flip the bird at Paul, accuse him of lying, as you delete, ON RECORD, these scriptures:
Ephesians 6 KJV
2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Exodus 20 KJV
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Deuteronomy 5 KJV
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
And explain, why you, ON RECORD, assert, argue that the U.S. is the only country, that has laws, as if other countries have laws, we are automatically under their jurisdiction, their authority, and judged/condemned by them. That is your twisted, insane "logic," which you have stated, on record.
Explain that lunacy to all of TOL.
And explain why you, on record, deny that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sin debt, paying the penalty for sins you/I/saved saints(by definition), commit every day, since, you, on record, assert that there is no law by which sins/transgressions/offenses are defined, marked.
Answer sound byte Pate, just spamming verse in isolation, without explaining them, redefining words, deleting verses, and 2/3 of scripture, in the process- explain this demonic insanity, induced by dementia, to the TOL audience.
You won't-just more deceptive copy'npaste, word-for-word spam, duplicate posts/threads, asserting more made up "Pate-anity," from the pits of hell,from your eroding mind, not the scriptures, which you detest,DELETING 2/3 of the scriptures, under the devilish reason of you have "the freedom" to do so.
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add to that the fact that the idea the cross changed the customs of Moses was false witness and jewish slander against Stephen and Paul...Paul was innocent of those charges at his trials...is why he continued with Sabbath and festivals Peter even kosher
and fulfillment of the law is abolishing it yes? think NOT He taught...most of us dont claim a recipe is abolished when its instructions are fulfilled...heaven and earth remain so no jot or tittle have passed
as already noted the Sabbath commandment was the only one of the 10 which included non natives...other laws included them and ONE law for native and non native is repeated throughout as many non natives left with them into the wilderness...
It was NOT for anything israel did to earn salvation but for the promise made to their father...and STILL many left who where NOT blood sons of abraham...and they too were saved...
Saved and THEN given the law...faith first then obedience
yup...but Paul is clear the wall of seperation between jew and gentile was destroyed IN HIM...now there is no longer jew or gentile but ONE NEW CREATURE...and citizen of Israel...grafted in...adopted...but in its jurisdiction...my House a house of prayer for ALL NATION...from month to month (New moon to new moon) Sabbath to Sabbath all will come worship Isaiah added...
new as in new signers new problems fixed...yet the same old terms apply...signed by His blood and sealed by His death that new covenant a last will and testament of Yahushua can NOT be changed...He modelled how those wishing its promise should live...
yup finding fault with the PEOPLE and NOT the terms He then writes the terms in their hearts and minds instead of stone...
You did note the present tense of the text though? They ARE STILL a shadow...
Here is a good study on this:
https://www.cogwriter.com/news/chur...sons-more-do-not-keep-the-biblical-holy-days/
there is Law and then there are ordinances...like there are traffic laws and then specific tickets for breaking them fines directly at you like a military ordnance...and when that handwritten ordinance speeding ticket is blotted out the traffic laws still remain yes?
nope alas there is nothing there about the Sabbath...the days at issue were for days of fasting...no way sabbath days were a doubtful thing verse 1...but dont lose the kingdom over food verse 17
again not a small matter as it is part of their identity and history and Law...
Commandments were a description as to what life is like “where I am”...and what it was in the original plan before the detour of sin...and what it will be in the new world to come so “no stealing no killing no lying no adultery” you know the rest right?
Just remember the seventh day is Holy...and keep IT Holy...we dont make it holy and technically we dont keep it, the Sabbath keeps us...close to Him His ways...
I would also remind christians that they follow a ROMAN calendar...a tradition of man and not the calendar of Yah found in scripture...
Sadly christians now rather celebrate “the Treason to His seasons”...
“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua” can’t make it any simpler...does as He did...walk His faith walk...the faith OF Yahushua included Sabbath keeping...is why it remains Heb 4:9 for us to remain obedient to receive our final promise land rest
that the church we worship with now should look like that early church...the consistency is clear...same God same calendar same lifestyle same repentance same obedience same joy same promise same reward
the judiazers were insisting that goy believers HAD TO/MUST be circumcised to not only fellowship with them but be saved...that was never taught in the OT...circumcision NEVER saved as how can something done to an infant save it? Abraham was saved and then circumcised Moses was chosen then circumcised...it is always faith first and only which SAVES...after which comes obedience...
Only if the non natives wished to celebrate the Passover were they to be circumcised...but if not they still were saved from egypt...only if they now WANTED to enter the promise land because they were saved well...
But NEVER were non native believers FORCED into circumcision
Ans NEVER was it taught they had to do this in order to be saved...they already were
Faith first remember?
Besides as Yahushua taught all this was to teach “MERCY RATHER THAN SACRIFICE”...
Hebrews 10 admits this system did not could not do away with sin...and so it was necessary for HIM...which jews still reject
All of it ARE a shadow pointing to HIM...still
you do realize these four requirements were ALREADY in the OT for those that came out of Egypt yes?
And please don’t argue that if you kill a swine appropriately and drain its blood it is now made clean to eat...of course the gentiles could not bring swine into Sabbath potlucks...of course they did NOT WANT to after hearing of One Resurrected and Moses being read to them every Sabbath...
Paul was clear...if they wanted to hear more they were to return the next Sabbath...and the next sabbath nearly the whole city did...no where did Paul instruct gentiles to come on Sunday on “our new day of worship” or wed nite meetings
fixed it for you...we are now no longer foreigners but citizens of israel says Paul...
yup the new covenant in which there is NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE...but we are citizens of Israel...HIS PEOPLE...by faith...adoption
yup...but again same terms written in our hearts and minds...ONE LAW there is not TWO ways into the kingdom
Here are they that keep ALL the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...the same faith as the Lord of the Sabbath...
Think NOT He abolished the Law ok?
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clefty.
Paul would say to you...
"You observe days and months and times and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain" Galatians 4:10,11.
"Wherefore if you are dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why as though living in the word, are you subject to the ordinances" Colossians 2:20.
Paul would say to you...
"You observe days and months and times and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain" Galatians 4:10,11.
"Wherefore if you are dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why as though living in the word, are you subject to the ordinances" Colossians 2:20.
The reason that you cannot understand the scriptures is because you are a religious reprobate. You think that you are a Christian, but you have never been born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.
The scriptures stand against you. 1 Timothy 1:9, Romans 7:6, Ephesians 2:15, Romans 7:8-10, Colossians 2:14, Galatians 3:10, Romans 3:20.
We establish the law by being "In Christ". God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
More evasion, copy'npaste spam, bait'nswitch, "post one verse in isolation" sorcery, from the admitted devil child, closet Catholic/Mormon.
ANSWER,Pate:
Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Why are you lying Pate? Pauls says "we,", i.e., Christians, do not make void the law.
Tell all of TOL the motivation for your lying, asserting that the law has been made void.
SHOW US WHERE PAUL ASSERTS THAT THE LAW HAS BEEN MADE VOID, Pate.
NOW.
Go ahead, Pate, as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you, admitted follower of your father, the devil.
And go ahead, Pate, and tell all of TOL, as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you,why murder, sodomy, theft, covetousness,................ are wrong, a sin, a transgression, if there is no objective standard, law, marking it, defining them, as such.
Go ahead, Pate.
I will give you, a "soft ball," for over the 100th time:
Why is murder wrong?
Answer, Pate.
And, since you have claimed, on record, that you commit sins, everyday, tell us how that is possible, if there is no objective standard, law, marking what you say are sins, defining them, as such.
Not a peep from you, for years.
And tell us, Pate, who gives you the authority, to flip the bird at Paul, accuse him of lying, as you delete, ON RECORD, these scriptures:
Ephesians 6 KJV
2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Exodus 20 KJV
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Deuteronomy 5 KJV
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
And explain, why you, ON RECORD, assert, argue that the U.S. is the only country, that has laws, as if other countries have laws, we are automatically under their jurisdiction, their authority, and judged/condemned by them. That is your twisted, insane "logic," which you have stated, on record.
Explain that lunacy to all of TOL.
And explain why you, on record, deny that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sin debt, paying the penalty for sins you/I/saved saints(by definition), commit every day, since, you, on record, assert that there is no law by which sins/transgressions/offenses are defined, marked.
Answer sound byte Pate, just spamming verse in isolation, without explaining them, redefining words, deleting verses, and 2/3 of scripture, in the process- explain this demonic insanity, induced by dementia, to the TOL audience.
You won't-just more deceptive copy'npaste, word-for-word spam, duplicate posts/threads, asserting more made up "Pate-anity," from the pits of hell,from your eroding mind, not the scriptures, which you detest,DELETING 2/3 of the scriptures, under the devilish reason of you have "the freedom" to do so.
yay new verses...looks like you did some reading...so let’s see
you do know that this was to the Celtic people yes...very proud civilized advanced culture theirs was even at that time...did you skip past verse 8?
“But then indeed when you did not know Yah you served those which by nature are not gods”
So does that sound like they were following Torah laws? You know the ones given by Yah?
How about verse 9...ignore that too did ya?
“But now after you have known Yah or rather are known by Yah how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you desire again to be in bondage?”
You expect Paul to call Yah’s laws weak and beggarly AND bondage? Please dont project your rebellious attitude on Paul
Besides, Yah’s festivals are their calendar...their only way to tell time...their identity...or do you expect Paul is encouraging them to keep the roman one?
Ok so again you equate Law with ordinances or some translations say regulations...please note Paul was asking why they continued with ordinances/regulations according to the commandments and doctrines of MAN...verse 22
So good question Paul...why would Robert subject himself to man made ideas? That would appear wise having a self imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of flesh and “do what thou whilst”...oh wait sorry Paul you said that already...verse 23...
Yup...as much as MAD christians deceive and distract to avoid the Sabbath they do remind us it is important to whom these epistles are written and why they are written...
Keep trying Robert...keep peddling that cart full of jewish fables that the cross changed the Law...that the Law no longer applies to us...
Right Divider
Body part
Are you talking about the weekly, seventh day sabbath that God did NOT give to YOU?
Exo 31:12-17 KJV And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
A very typical response from someone that is spiritually dead.
Do you really believe that you can establish the law through your works and obedience?
This is what Paul would say to you,
"Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them that are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped and all of the world may become guilty before God".
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:19, 20.
Only a condemned religious reprobate would read this and not see that Jesus abolished the law for Christians. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law, it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
=spam, evasion, copy'npaste, from the admitted Mormon/Catholic..
I did not argue that, satanic accuser. Show me where I said we establish the law through your works obedience. You, in your demonic "logic." assert that if the law exists, you establish it by works and obedience=insanity, from your dementia mind.
You-on record: TTHE LAW HAS BEEN MADE VOID.
ANSWER,Pate:
Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Why are you lying Pate? Pauls says "we,", i.e., Christians, do not make void the law.
Tell all of TOL the motivation for your lying, asserting that the law has been made void.
SHOW US WHERE PAUL ASSERTS THAT THE LAW HAS BEEN MADE VOID, Pate.
1. Pate's revision:"Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them that are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped and all of the world may become guilty before God, BUT THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, AS NO ONE CAN BE DECLARED GUILTY, OF BREAKING A LAW, THAT DOES NOT EXIST, AS THE LAW HAS BEEN MADE VOID."
That is this demon infested fraud's, twisted, dementia driven "logic."
2. Pate's demonic logic: If the law exists, you ARE under it, AUTOMATICALLY DECLARED GUILTY, JUDGE/CONDEMNED FOR BREAKING IT, AND THUS THE SOLUTION IS TO ELIMINATE THE LAW, SO THAT WE CANNOT TRANSGRESS, SIN, IF THERE IS NO LAW, AND THUS, THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, FOR WHICH CHRIST DIED, AND HE DIED IN VAIN, FOR NOTHING.
=on record
Again-explain why you, on record, deny that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sin debt, paying the penalty for sins you/I/saved saints(by definition), commit every day, since, you, on record, assert that there is no law by which sins/transgressions/offenses are defined, marked.
3.Pate's demonic "logic:" Unless the laws of other countries are made void, abolished, U.S. citizens ARE UNDER THESE FOREIGN COUNTRY LAWS, subject to their jurisdiction, their authority.
Again, Pate:explain, why you, ON RECORD, assert, argue that the U.S. is the only country, that has laws, as if other countries have laws, we are automatically under their jurisdiction, their authority, and judged/condemned by them. That is your twisted, insane "logic," which you have stated, on record.
Explain that lunacy to all of TOL.
Translation of "Pate-anity"'s perversion of the gospel of Christ: Unless all laws are abolished, you are under their authority, judged condemned for breaking them. Thus, the solution to everyone breaking the law, and thus having a sin debt, an "IOU," a "bond indenture," owed to a holy LORD God, condemned by the law, is not for someone to pay the debt, for breaking an existing good, holy, spiritual law of God, that being the Lord Jesus Christ; nea-the solution is to ABOLISH/DESTROY/ELIMINATE/MAKE VOID, the law, and thus there is no transgression/sin debt owed, and Christ need not die for our sin debt, AS THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, since there is no objective law, defining the offense/transgression/sin, AND CHRIST DIED FOR NOTHING, according to wicked Pate-ON RECORD.
Again-tell all of TOL, as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you,why murder, sodomy, theft, covetousness,................ are wrong, a sin, a transgression, if there is no objective standard, law, marking it, defining them, as such.
Go ahead, Pate.
I will give you, a "soft ball," for over the 100th time:
Why is murder wrong?
Answer, Pate.
And, since you have claimed, on record, that you commit sins, everyday, tell us how that is possible, if there is no objective standard, law, marking what you say are sins, defining them, as such.
Not a peep from you, for years.
And tell us, Pate, who gives you the authority, to flip the bird at Paul, accuse him of lying, as you delete, ON RECORD, these scriptures:
Ephesians 6 KJV
2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Exodus 20 KJV
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Deuteronomy 5 KJV
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
No, only insane, dementia filled demons like you, would corrupt, redefine words, and assert that a law can be abolished for some, and "unabolished" for others, and that Paul said THE LAW WAS MADE VOID, as you do, habitual liar..
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Well...My Savior said it was made for MAN not just jews...funny that...
Oh and even in the wilderness the Sabbath was the only law of 10 that actually included the stranger the non native that went with them...saved from Egypt...and now given a seventh day of rest...neat eh?
Later Paul reminds there is no longer jew or gentile IN HIM...something about us all one citizen of Israel...something about being grafted or adopted or something...and well seventhday Sabbath is in Yah’s house rules...
Heb 4:9 confirms a Sabbath keeping remains for His people...is that you or not?
“Here are they that keep all but one of the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua...except His seventh day Sabbath.”
There fixed it for you...or maybe heaven is just for jews too?
Or maybe two ways in? The 10/10 and the 9/10 class?
You do realize once a person dies there are NO CHANGES to the will yes?
So He signed in blood and sealed with His death His last will and testament after having taught and modelled exactly what He wanted...
And so NO CHANGES...no matter how MAD you get...