Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
musterion said:
Think of it this way.

Why does Pate HAVE to have Christ walking sinlessly on his behalf, rather than only dying for Pate's sin?

Because Pate believes the work of a sinless walk is required for salvation, even though Paul never says it is.

He believes he cannot be saved unless he has BOTH Christ's sinless walk AND His death for sin credited to Pate's account. He insists upon it.

That means Pate believes the Cross isn't adequate to cover anyone's sin.

Paul said it is.

That means Pate is lost.
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Jesus vicariously lived for us, died for us, ascended into heaven for us, is at the right hand of God for us and is coming again for us. If you don't believe that then you should not profess to be a Christian, simply because you are without a savior.

All that Jesus was and all that Jesus did, was for our salvation and our justification. When God accepted Jesus back into heaven we were accepted in him. No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus.
 
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clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Jesus vicariously lived for us, died for us, ascended into heaven for us, is at the right hand of God for us and is coming again for us. If you don't believe that then you should not profess to be a Christian, simply because you are without a savior.

All that Jesus was and all that Jesus did, was for our salvation and our justification. When God accepted Jesus back into heaven we were accepted in him. No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus.
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The thief on the cross spoken to that day was justified that day...had he lived the next day he would have demonstrated it...or certainly tried to out of gratitude...and when he failed he would have repented to be forgiven and then changed his behavior again to continue to produce fruit indicating he was MORE LIKE his Savior and less like his former self...

He certainly would not live as if there was no more law...none of His citizens live like that...
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
The thief on the cross spoken to that day was justified that day...had he lived the next day he would have demonstrated it...or certainly tried to out of gratitude...and when he failed he would have repented to be forgiven and then changed his behavior again to continue to produce fruit indicating he was MORE LIKE his Savior and less like his former self...

He certainly would not live as if there was no more law...none of His citizens live like that...
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All that I have is the scriptures and it should be all that you need. There is enough scriptures that tell us that we are not under the law but under grace. I think that I understand why you want to live by law. You cannot bring yourself to believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for you. This is what happens when someone does not believe the whole Gospel, there is a void in their doctrine and they try to fill that void with their own life.

Jesus said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE" no man can come to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

You can't come to the Father by the law. There is no scripture that says the law will save you or justify you. The changed life will not make you acceptable to God. The only one that can make you acceptable to God is Jesus Christ. In your name and on your behalf Jesus lived a perfect life for you.

"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" Romans 5:10.

We need both the life and the death of Christ to save us. If Jesus did not live a perfect life for us, who did he live it for? You will never be able to be like Jesus, simply because you were born in sin, your mother was a sinner, your father was a sinner and you are a sinner, Psalm 51:5. No matter how well you keep the commandments you are still a sinner, Romans 3:23.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
pate

Jesus vicariously lived for us, died for us, ascended into heaven for us, is at the right hand of God for us and is coming again for us.
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And you teach that folks He did these things for still wind up lost and condemned. So those things according to you are ineffectual to save in and of themselves !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
pate

"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" Romans 5:10.

We need both the life and the death of Christ to save us.
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Evidently you believe folk need more than that since you teach that people He reconciled to God by His death are still lost and condemned !
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" Romans 5:10.

We need both the life and the death of Christ to save us.
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You have that backward. We need both the death and life (resurrected life) to save us.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
You have that backward. We need both the death and life (resurrected life) to save us.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​
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Don't you teach and believe that sinners Christ died for and was raised again, die in their sins?

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
glorydaz said:
You have that backward. We need both the death and life (resurrected life) to save us.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​
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In my book, to reject the life of Christ for your salvation is to reject Christ.

"For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many be made righteous" Romans 5:19.

Christ makes us righteous by imputing his righteousness to us, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.

Jesus is our substitute and representative. He and he alone fulfills the law for us, Matthew 5:18 and atones for our sins.

Without the life of Christ for your salvation you will try to fill that void with your own life. That will lead to legalism and doubt in your salvation.

Jesus did it all and he did it perfectly.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
In my book, to reject the life of Christ for your salvation is to reject Christ.

"For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many be made righteous" Romans 5:19.
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The obedience from that verse is His obedience unto death.

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

That's what the justification of faith is all about. Our faith in His blood.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
glorydaz said:
The obedience from that verse is His obedience unto death.

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

That's what the justification of faith is all about. Our faith in His blood.
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If Jesus had failed to fulfill God's Holy Law no one would be saved. Our salvation is based upon the righteousness of Christ.

"To declare, I say, at this time HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS: that he might be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

We are as much saved by his sinless life as we are by his death. What you have is half a Gospel. We were "In Christ" when he lived and we were "In Christ" when he died. We are called to identify with Jesus in his life and in his death.

Jesus was not all God, he was also human. That human part of Jesus is our humanity, our humanity was in Christ when he lived. Through suffering Jesus has perfected our humanity and has taken it to heaven. Our real life is hid with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.
 
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clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
All that I have is the scriptures and it should be all that you need. There is enough scriptures that tell us that we are not under the law but under grace. I think that I understand why you want to live by law. You cannot bring yourself to believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for you. This is what happens when someone does not believe the whole Gospel, there is a void in their doctrine and they try to fill that void with their own life.

Jesus said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE" no man can come to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

You can't come to the Father by the law. There is no scripture that says the law will save you or justify you. The changed life will not make you acceptable to God. The only one that can make you acceptable to God is Jesus Christ. In your name and on your behalf Jesus lived a perfect life for you.

"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" Romans 5:10.

We need both the life and the death of Christ to save us. If Jesus did not live a perfect life for us, who did he live it for? You will never be able to be like Jesus, simply because you were born in sin, your mother was a sinner, your father was a sinner and you are a sinner, Psalm 51:5. No matter how well you keep the commandments you are still a sinner, Romans 3:23.
Click to expand...

Matt 19:17 “...if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments”...and now because of what He did for you you should want to...
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Matt 19:17 “...if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments”...and now because of what He did for you you should want to...
Click to expand...

Matthew 19:17 is about Jesus's confrontation with the self righteous rich young ruler. The whole story can be found in Matthew 19:16-22.

The rich young ruler, like you, thought that he was without sin. Jesus gave him the law, Matthew 19:17-19. What did he say? He said, "All of those things I have kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

In other words, he thought that he was perfect. What did Jesus say to him after he said that? Jesus gave him both barrels.

"If you are perfect, go sell what you have and give it to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me".

Jesus gave him the law that says, "Love your neighbor as yourself" That did it. He took off like he had been wounded.

Jesus was trying to convince the rich young ruler that he was a sinner in need of a savior. Unfortunately he maintained his righteousness and probably wound up in hell.
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Matthew 19:17 is about Jesus's confrontation with the self righteous rich young ruler. The whole story can be found in Matthew 19:16-22.

The rich young ruler, like you, thought that he was without sin. Jesus gave him the law, Matthew 19:17-19. What did he say? He said, "All of those things I have kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

In other words, he thought that he was perfect. What did Jesus say to him after he said that? Jesus gave him both barrels.

"If you are perfect, go sell what you have and give it to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me".

Jesus gave him the law that says, "Love your neighbor as yourself" That did it. He took off like he had been wounded.

Jesus was trying to convince the rich young ruler that he was a sinner in need of a savior. Unfortunately he maintained his righteousness and probably wound up in hell.
Click to expand...

Right see? Law remains...

And all this time you claim it’s done away with...
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Don't you teach and believe that sinners Christ died for and was raised again, die in their sins?

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
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No, His blood was sufficient for all, but only effectual for those who believe.

Faith in the blood is what gives access to God's Grace.
 
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