Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[clefty]

I doubt very much whether you and John W. will understand this.

To live according to laws and rules will produce wrath.

"Because the law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15.

The law will not make you a better Christian, if anything it will make you a terrible Christian and a hypocrite. This is what Paul meant when he wrote Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died".

The law made Paul want to sin. Why is that? Human nature does not want to be told what to do. We all want to be our own God's. This is what caused Adam to sin and causes us to sin today. This is why the law works wrath. This is why Jesus abolished the law, Ephesians 2:15.

I can tell that you and John W. are under the law by your attitude towards others, you are both full of contention and wrath. You do not have peace with yourselves, nor do you have peace with God.

A good son does not need rules, laws or instructions. He loves his father and wants to please him, not because he has to, but because he wants to. He always does those things that pleases his father out of love and respect for his father. It would be unthinkable for him to do anything that would disappoint his father. He knows what is required of him and lives accordingly. This is what is known as living by the Spirit.

The bolded part destroys your whole argument...despite the tortured twisting you do with Paul’s writing...

It remains Faith without works is dead...a good son indeed knows what is required of him...not just faith...and does live accordingly to his Father’s house rules...which are written on his heart and mind..having been instructed of them...

 

[Robert Pate]

The bolded part destroys your whole argument...despite the tortured twisting you do with Paul’s writing...

It remains Faith without works is dead...a good son indeed knows what is required of him...not just faith...and does live accordingly to his Father’s house rules...which are written on his heart and mind..having been instructed of them...

You have a warped, twisted view of the nature of God. Your God is a taskmaster that is ready to crack you on your back with his whip if you fail. You don't see God as your loving heavenly Father. You have the same view of God as the Pharisees had.

 

[beloved57]

You have a warped, twisted view of the nature of God. Your God is a taskmaster that is ready to crack you on your back with his whip if you fail. You don't see God as your loving heavenly Father. You have the same view of God as the Pharisees had.

U have the same idea about God. That one must do or die!

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[clefty]

You have a warped, twisted view of the nature of God. Your God is a taskmaster that is ready to crack you on your back with his whip if you fail. You don't see God as your loving heavenly Father. You have the same view of God as the Pharisees had.

You said it yourself...a good son WANTS to please his father and obedience is part of that...

You said it yourself...the house rules are written in the hearts and minds of those who wish to live where He is...

Is it so hard for you to live as you are designed to live...WITH HIM?

Pharisees had changed His rules and like you claiming no rules or new rules they rebel against HIS design...

 

[Robert Pate]

You said it yourself...a good son WANTS to please his father and obedience is part of that...

You said it yourself...the house rules are written in the hearts and minds of those who wish to live where He is...

Is it so hard for you to live as you are designed to live...WITH HIM?

Pharisees had changed His rules and like you claiming no rules or new rules they rebel against HIS design...

No, a good son wants to please his father because he loves him. No rules, no laws, no religion.

There will not be any laws, rules or religion in heaven, John did not see a temple in heaven, Revelation 21:22.

Everything will be done in heaven because we want to, not because we are told to or because we have to.

This life is supposed to be a model for the life to come. Living in harmony with others and loving each other. John W. is not going to like it in heaven.

 

[clefty]

No, a good son wants to please his father because he loves him. No rules, no laws, no religion.

yup...we please Him by wanting to live as He designed us to...you know, with order and harmony...you would reject the biological law of digestion if you could

There will not be any laws, rules or religion in heaven, John did not see a temple in heaven, Revelation 21:22.

why did he not see one? Israel didn’t need a king for the same reason...but now you claim the kingdom of heaven is lawless because there is no temple...LOL

Everything will be done in heaven because we want to, not because we are told to or because we have to.

duh... just as it was supposed to have been in the OT and in the NT...you know with His people the ones obedient voluntarily to Him

This life is supposed to be a model for the life to come. Living in harmony with others and loving each other.

The Buddhists live in harmony too...the Muslims love each other...are they citizens of His kingdom too...having entered through faith in His Son and having the same faith-the same obedience?

But yes is why we don’t do certain things here because we want to practice how to live when we are WITH Him...

You know... the Law Giver and Judge of His law full kingdom...Its KING

 

[Robert Pate]

yup...we please Him by wanting to live as He designed us to...you know, with order and harmony...you would reject the biological law of digestion if you could

why did he not see one? Israel didn’t need a king for the same reason...but now you claim the kingdom of heaven is lawless because there is no temple...LOL

duh... just as it was supposed to have been in the OT and in the NT...you know with His people the ones obedient voluntarily to Him



The Buddhists live in harmony too...the Muslims love each other...are they citizens of His kingdom too...having entered through faith in His Son and having the same faith-the same obedience?

But yes is why we don’t do certain things here because we want to practice how to live when we are WITH Him...

You know... the Law Giver and Judge of His law full kingdom...Its KING

Buddhist and Muslims are not Christians. They do not have saving faith in Christ and his Gospel. No one will enter heaven that has not been born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

In the Gospel we believe that Jesus has victoriously destroyed sin, death and the devil. We also believe that Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. We also believe that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law for us and for our sake abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Simply because the law brings wrath.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Jesus has made us fit for heaven.

 

[clefty]

Buddhist and Muslims are not Christians. They do not have saving faith in Christ and his Gospel. No one will enter heaven that has not been born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

In the Gospel we believe that Jesus has victoriously destroyed sin, death and the devil. We also believe that Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. We also believe that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law for us and for our sake abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Simply because the law brings wrath.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Jesus has made us fit for heaven.

LOL...and His followers are demonstrably different than others who live in harmony or love each other...by the laws they follow...rules they keep...etc

yup 1 peter 1:23 proves His WORD has not been abolished...His Word transforms us into Spirit filled followers of Him His way...accordance to how commanded us we do...IF WE LOVE HIM

Abolished the Law for our sake? It was FOR our sake...either we accept it and repent and turn to He Who saves us or we reject it and it is then a law of death...thankfully...imagine your rebellious types living forever teaching “there is no law”

Not only can we stand before the Holy Court as perfect and complete IN HIM...but we can live Holy lives representing HIM...HIS WAY of living...Spirit filled and righteous in accordance to His Law

Yup fit for heaven...His Law His way...and In HIM more like Him less like the lawless world

You do pray “on earth as it is in heaven” yes?

That would mean HIS WAY...as demonstrated and instructed...those that love Him want to...

 

[Robert Pate]

LOL...and His followers are demonstrably different than others who live in harmony or love each other...by the laws they follow...rules they keep...etc

yup 1 peter 1:23 proves His WORD has not been abolished...His Word transforms us into Spirit filled followers of Him His way...accordance to how commanded us we do...IF WE LOVE HIM

Abolished the Law for our sake? It was FOR our sake...either we accept it and repent and turn to He Who saves us or we reject it and it is then a law of death...thankfully...imagine your rebellious types living forever teaching “there is no law”

Not only can we stand before the Holy Court as perfect and complete IN HIM...but we can live Holy lives representing HIM...HIS WAY of living...Spirit filled and righteous in accordance to His Law

Yup fit for heaven...His Law His way...and In HIM more like Him less like the lawless world

You do pray “on earth as it is in heaven” yes?

That would mean HIS WAY...as demonstrated and instructed...those that love Him want to...

1 Peter 1:23 is not the law, it is the Gospel. The law cannot save nor can the law justify. Those that try to become acceptable to God by the law are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. The reason that they are under a curse is because they, like you, are trying to justify themselves by their obedience to the law.

Jesus is the justifier of the ungodly, Romans 4:5. He justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly that which they cannot do for themselves. Can your obedience fulfill the law? No, your obedience is filthy rags in his sight, Isaiah 64:6. Jesus and Jesus alone fulfills the law and he does it in your name and on your behalf, just like you did it yourself.

If the law has not been abolished then we are still under it and are subject to it. Paul said, "Knowing this that the law is not made for the righteous man" 1 Timothy 1:9. The reason that the law is not made for the righteous man is because the righteous man does not need the law. Do you need to be told how to live and treat your fellow man? If you do, you are not a Christian, instead you are a lawless sinner.

The Bible does not teach that we are to live according to laws, rules or religion. What it does teach is that we are called to live by the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ. We should always ask ourselves what would Jesus do?

 

[clefty]

1 Peter 1:23 is not the law, it is the Gospel. The law cannot save nor can the law justify. Those that try to become acceptable to God by the law are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. The reason that they are under a curse is because they, like you, are trying to justify themselves by their obedience to the law.

Jesus is the justifier of the ungodly, Romans 4:5. He justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly that which they cannot do for themselves. Can your obedience fulfill the law? No, your obedience is filthy rags in his sight, Isaiah 64:6. Jesus and Jesus alone fulfills the law and he does it in your name and on your behalf, just like you did it yourself.

If the law has not been abolished then we are still under it and are subject to it. Paul said, "Knowing this that the law is not made for the righteous man" 1 Timothy 1:9. The reason that the law is not made for the righteous man is because the righteous man does not need the law. Do you need to be told how to live and treat your fellow man? If you do, you are not a Christian, instead you are a lawless sinner.

The Bible does not teach that we are to live according to laws, rules or religion. What it does teach is that we are called to live by the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ. We should always ask ourselves what would Jesus do?

Indeed what would Jesus do can be best understood by what Jesus did do...

So

Did He covet?
Did He steal? Murder? adultery? False witness?
Dishonor parents?

So far no right?

Ok so did He worship false god?
Make images?
Take the name in vain?

Also “no” right?

Ok one left...

Did He remember the seventh day Sabbath?

Yes...I think that is your problem

You have no problem with 9 of the 10 but that sabbath one really derails you off His path His Way...

Oh and yes He kept kosher and the festivals...is why the apostles and the early church did too...

 

[Robert Pate]

Indeed what would Jesus do can be best understood by what Jesus did do...

So

Did He covet?
Did He steal? Murder? adultery? False witness?
Dishonor parents?

So far no right?

Ok so did He worship false god?
Make images?
Take the name in vain?

Also “no” right?

Ok one left...

Did He remember the seventh day Sabbath?

Yes...I think that is your problem

You have no problem with 9 of the 10 but that sabbath one really derails you off His path His Way...

Oh and yes He kept kosher and the festivals...is why the apostles and the early church did too...

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law.

Jesus was also a teacher of the law. However, human needs came first, not the law. One might say that Jesus was the epitome of God's law. He went about doing good. The voice from heaven said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased". Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of God's law.

The life that Jesus lived was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. Because we are justified by Christ apart from the works of the law, we are justified by faith alone. The law does not justify. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. Righteousness does not come by the law. Righteousness only comes by faith. You are hung up on obedience and keeping the law, which you have neither of. You need to confess that you are a sinner in need of salvation.

 

[clefty]

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law.

yup and taught “think NOT that I have come to destroy it”...and yet here you keep insisting He did...did He LIE?

He lived modeled and taught the new covenant and toasted and christened it to a room full of jews...and then signed it with His blood and sealed it with His death...

THAT’S WHY CHRISTIANS INSIST “WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?!!!” But well you insist otherwise...

But again 9 of the commandments you dont have a problem with I am sure...it’s only that Sabbath one isnt it?...

Can’t count how many times Christians claim we are not to kill or steal or commit adultery...I mean duh...

They even want the 10 commandments prominent everywhere...

All of them so sincere as how they wish to do right...live like Jesus did...to be more like Him...how earnestly they seek to not be like the world or their former selves...but WWJD?!!...

Well but then I bring up the seventh day Sabbath and all the wheels come off...a train wreck of logic and twisted scripture ensues...”AWWW HELL NO” they object “WE UNDER GRACE NOW”...just like your “there is not Law”...LOL

Jesus was also a teacher of the law. However, human needs came first, not the law. One might say that Jesus was the epitome of God's law. He went about doing good. The voice from heaven said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased". Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of God's law.

is NOT what is taught...Paul is clear He is the GOAL of the law...not my fault translators have a biased agenda...I have shown you numerous times the greek word is “GOAL” and not “end”...

The life that Jesus lived was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. Because we are justified by Christ apart from the works of the law, we are justified by faith alone. The law does not justify. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. Righteousness does not come by the law. Righteousness only comes by faith. You are hung up on obedience and keeping the law, which you have neither of.

hung up? Yes pleasing Him for what He did for me is what I want...happily He instructed as to what pleases His Father...obedience to HIM HIS WAY cuz judgement day means the LAW REMAINS>..and when He returns He will be bringing rewards for our good works...halleluYah

You need to confess that you are a sinner in need of salvation.

oh I do...but because the Law remains...Is why we are instructed BY HIM TO DO SO...go and SIN NO MORE...

You wish to remove the law because like a juvenile you blame gravity for falling after tripping...

If the Law was removable why not spare HIS SON’S AGONIZING DEATH?

You worship a god foreign to the one in scripture...scripture is clear...it’s an ETERNAL LAW


Ugh my caps key keeps getting stuck...

 

[clefty]

1 Peter 1:23 is not the law, it is the Gospel. The law cannot save nor can the law justify. Those that try to become acceptable to God by the law are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. The reason that they are under a curse is because they, like you, are trying to justify themselves by their obedience to the law.

Jesus is the justifier of the ungodly, Romans 4:5. He justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly that which they cannot do for themselves. Can your obedience fulfill the law? No, your obedience is filthy rags in his sight, Isaiah 64:6. Jesus and Jesus alone fulfills the law and he does it in your name and on your behalf, just like you did it yourself.

If the law has not been abolished then we are still under it and are subject to it. Paul said, "Knowing this that the law is not made for the righteous man" 1 Timothy 1:9. The reason that the law is not made for the righteous man is because the righteous man does not need the law. Do you need to be told how to live and treat your fellow man? If you do, you are not a Christian, instead you are a lawless sinner.

The Bible does not teach that we are to live according to laws, rules or religion. What it does teach is that we are called to live by the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ. We should always ask ourselves what would Jesus do?

Oh...and BTW...the Bible does relate how in Acts 15 the apostles came up with 4 rules for the gentiles to be able to come into their synagogues and hear Moses and his laws read every Sabbath...

These 4 rules were ALREADY expected of the foreigner in the OT...so nothing new...

Later Paul takes a vow and pays for sacrifices of 4 others to PROVE he did not teach the law was abolished...

3 times Paul claims to keep the law and teaches only Jesus Christ resurrected as the ONLY reason jews wanted him arrested...Imagine if Paul was teaching the customs from moses were changed...he could not claim he was innocent and many witnesses could have testified to it...

So well past chapter 8 of acts Paul insists he keeps the law...and teaches others to do so...

 

[Robert Pate]

Oh...and BTW...the Bible does relate how in Acts 15 the apostles came up with 4 rules for the gentiles to be able to come into their synagogues and hear Moses and his laws read every Sabbath...

These 4 rules were ALREADY expected of the foreigner in the OT...so nothing new...

Later Paul takes a vow and pays for sacrifices of 4 others to PROVE he did not teach the law was abolished...

3 times Paul claims to keep the law and teaches only Jesus Christ resurrected as the ONLY reason jews wanted him arrested...Imagine if Paul was teaching the customs from moses were changed...he could not claim he was innocent and many witnesses could have testified to it...

So well past chapter 8 of acts Paul insists he keeps the law...and teaches others to do so...

The word "Gospel" is not in your vocabulary. You are not concerned about what Jesus has done to save you and justify you. You think that it is all about you and your obedience to the law. Paul never taught anyone to observe the law. What he did teach is that if you observe the law you are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

The reason James followed the law is because he was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but believes that you must also keep the law of Moses. Kind of like you. There were many judaizers in the early church. Paul was in contention with them. You can read about it in the book of Galatians. One time he said to them... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? Galatians 4:21. To be under the law is to be under the judgment of God. The law will damn you to hell. Jesus is no effect to you if you are under the law.

 

[beloved57]

The word "Gospel" is not in your vocabulary. You are not concerned about what Jesus has done to save you and justify you. You think that it is all about you and your obedience to the law. Paul never taught anyone to observe the law. What he did teach is that if you observe the law you are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

The reason James followed the law is because he was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but believes that you must also keep the law of Moses. Kind of like you. There were many judaizers in the early church. Paul was in contention with them. You can read about it in the book of Galatians. One time he said to them... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? Galatians 4:21. To be under the law is to be under the judgment of God. The law will damn you to hell. Jesus is no effect to you if you are under the law.

You are under the law teaching that man must do something to get saved. You preach a law keeping gospel under the guise of preaching the Gospel of Gods Grace.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[clefty]

The word "Gospel" is not in your vocabulary. You are not concerned about what Jesus has done to save you and justify you. You think that it is all about you and your obedience to the law. Paul never taught anyone to observe the law. What he did teach is that if you observe the law you are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

The reason James followed the law is because he was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but believes that you must also keep the law of Moses. Kind of like you. There were many judaizers in the early church. Paul was in contention with them. You can read about it in the book of Galatians. One time he said to them... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? Galatians 4:21. To be under the law is to be under the judgment of God. The law will damn you to hell. Jesus is no effect to you if you are under the law.

Not concerned with what He did? The reason I want to obey Him is because I am grateful for what He has done to save and justify me.

You misusing and twisting Paul repeatedly does not change “if you love Me keep My commandments”

Yet you insist the Law was done away with at the cross...so who has sinned since as only by Law is sin revealed? No Law means no need of salvation...

Do you not hear the Law?...no you do not...you imagine silence as if the Law were done away with...

Yup all this twisting and distortion merely to avoid the seventh day Sabbath...I am sure you have no issue with the other 9...

As you said...ask yourself WWJD?

And do that...is keeping the Law...if you love Him

 

[musterion]

He was raised for our justification....He didn't live His life on earth for our justification. Until you get that figured out, you'll continue wandering around in the mist.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
​

Forget it, Glory, he's too far gone. In telling us we're unsaved for rejecting his backdoor works gospel, he's doubled down on his unbelief and revealed himself to have believed a false gospel. Besides, all he does is repeat himself. He's not listening. The fool has rejected repeated admonitions. Best to let him alone.

 

[meshak]

Forget it, Glory, he's too far gone. In telling us we're unsaved for rejecting his backdoor works gospel, he's doubled down on his unbelief and revealed himself to have believed a false gospel. Besides, all he does is repeat himself. He's not listening. The fool has rejected repeated admonitions. Best to let him alone.

Blind leading blind.

 

[musterion]

Think of it this way.

Why does Pate HAVE to have Christ walking sinlessly on his behalf, rather than only dying for Pate's sin?

Because Pate believes the work of a sinless walk is required for salvation, even though Paul never says it is.

He believes he cannot be saved unless he has BOTH Christ's sinless walk AND His death for sin credited to Pate's account. He insists upon it.

That means Pate believes the Cross isn't adequate to cover anyone's sin.

Paul said it is.

That means Pate is lost.

 

[clefty]

Think of it this way.

Why does Pate HAVE to have Christ walking sinlessly on his behalf, rather than only dying for Pate's sin?

Because Pate believes the work of a sinless walk is required for salvation, even though Paul never says it is.

He believes he cannot be saved unless he has BOTH Christ's sinless walk AND His death for sin credited to Pate's account. He insists upon it.

That means Pate believes the Cross isn't adequate to cover anyone's sin.

Paul said it is.

That means Pate is lost.

Lost? Maybe...but playing the game pretending there are NO rules is a novel way to play...most play thinking only 9 rules still apply to them...