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Eggasai

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It looks like we will get along quite well. I am pretty literal too. Hebrews trumps Leviticus--Plain and simple. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Lambs, bulls and goats are no longer needed.

I probably should set my religion to Christian since my theology is sola scriptura Christian. What race I am make no difference in the kingdom of God.

Race don't mean a whole lot to me either, my line is primarily French Indian with an assortment of European lineages here and there. Can't really talk smack about other races, I'm probably related somewhere down the line.

At any rate, I'm into the way the Jewish literature in the Bible arranges things with a numerical significance (for lack of a better way of saying it). The Levetical Laws of sacrifice look like 5 sacrifices, the dedication of the priests and the fire from before the Lord. Don't know what it means but there are Seven Levetical feasts as well.

I've been accused of trying to make the imagery of the Old Testament walk on all fours but I think the menorah makes a pretty good figure to the Levetical laws as compared to the Spiritual gifts.

Just some random thoughts, again, welcome to the boards.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 

Ktoyou

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If you don't like the label, when why is it on the menu?

It is the person of Jewish heritage that is Christian. Nuff said.

The reason, there are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah, yet believe they are under the Law and believe they are under the kingdom of Jesus to come, not part of the Body of Christ. This is the difference.
 
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Sherman

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The reason, there are Jews how believe in Jesus as the Messiah, yet believe they are under the Law and believe they are under the kingdom of Jesus to come, not part of the Body of Christ. This is the difference.

That is not what a Messianic Jew is. That is baloney theology. I was never taught that. If this board is using that definition, then I won't use the label.
 

csuguy

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That is not what a Messianic Jew is. That is baloney theology. I was never taught that. If this board is using that definition, then I won't use the label.

You shouldn't have to change your label because people are ignorant of what it means :idunno:

Welcome :)
 

Sherman

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I am going to ask the board owner what the label means to him before I ultimately take ownership of the label. I am going to pick one that best describes my beliefs.
 

csuguy

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I am going to ask the board owner what the label means to him before I ultimately take ownership of the label. I am going to pick one that best describes my beliefs.

I've always understood "Messianic Jew" to be a Jewish Christian, and if that's what you've been taught it to mean then stick with it - regardless of what Ktoyou or the Knight think it means.

Of course, if its just gonna be a bother to you then you can stick with "Christian." I think it would be a shame to switch labels though purely because others are ignorant. That's just me though :idunno:
 

steko

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I know many Messianic Jews from various persuasions. They are as varied as the many on this thread who profess the name of Christ.
Some that I know well, have come to a knowledge of their Messiah at great cost, much more than some of us Gentiles. There families have disowned them and they've been ostracized from their familiar culture. In the early years of the church after it had become predominately gentile, Jews were required to renounce their Judaism. This practice continued and became even uglier at times. It was never meant to be so. The first believers on the day of Pentecost(a Jewish feast-Shavuot) were 3000 Jews and not a gentile among them, except some proselytes. The next day another 5000 Jews were saved. It wasn't til' Acts10, maybe ten years later that the first gentiles were saved. As more and more gentiles were brought in, the question arose as to how far into Jewish practice the gentiles were required to go. The conclusion in Acts 15 was not to far, but only to refrain from those things that were immoral and that offended the Jewish conscience. Gentiles were not to become proselyte Jews. I think it is very wrong to insist that Jews become proselyte Gentiles, when they come to Israel's Messiah. After all, "this same [Jewish] Jesus will return in the same way He left(Acts 1:11).
I do maintain that neither Jew nor Gentile is 'under the law' at this time and those who believe it are in error. However, there is no harm in studying the feasts of Israel and other practices in order to gain insight into the types that pointed to Messiah.
Of course, to those who believe that GOD is completely finished with Israel, the people and the land, then these things can look quite rediculous. But, that goes back to the 'many splintered things' that we find in Christianity anyway, right?
 

Sherman

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Ktoyou, I did put in a request for the women's club since I am female.
 

Lighthouse

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A Messianic Jew is a person of Jewish heritage that believes that Jesus is the Messiah. They do come in many flavors. I am Sola Scriptura and Trinitarian. I reject the Talmud as traditions of men. I like to call it the 'tall mud'. I learned that from a messianic Rabbi.
So, do you believe any of the law must be followed for salvation, or do you believe we are saved by grace through faith and not by works?

From what I've known of Messianic Jews they generally believe they must follow the Law, with the exceptions of the sacrifices because Jesus was the final sacrifice.
 

Sherman

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So, do you believe any of the law must be followed for salvation, or do you believe we are saved by grace through faith and not by works?

From what I've known of Messianic Jews they generally believe they must follow the Law, with the exceptions of the sacrifices because Jesus was the final sacrifice.

I am not tied to all the laws because we are under the new covenant of Jesus. I do eat kosher foods because it is my culture to do so, not because of any law. Anything that Jesus says, trumps the old law. I hold Jesus higher than the old Law because He is G-d in the flesh, the second person of the trinity

If the label going to cause this much trouble on this board I won't use it. All people that accept Jesus as their Savior, become children of the promise. They are grafted into the Olive Tree. Blood heritage doesn't amount to much if you do not have Jesus. Make sense?
 

steko

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I am not tied to all the laws because we are under the new covenant of Jesus. I do eat kosher foods because it is my culture to do so, not because of any law. Anything that Jesus says, trumps the old law. I hold Jesus higher than the old Law because He is G-d in the flesh, the second person of the trinity

If the label going to cause this much trouble on this board I won't use it. All people that accept Jesus as their Savior, become children of the promise. They are grafted into the Olive Tree. Blood heritage doesn't amount to much if you do not have Jesus. Make sense?

The label isn't causing trouble. It actually invites questions that stimulate dialogue, that hopefully will educate those who don't understand that 'Messianic Judaism' is a legitimate term and position.
It's clear to me that you hold to the central truths of Christianity. No matter what you say in this forum, I guarantee that you won't be able to convince everyone of that fact, nor will you be accepted by everyone as a 'true believer'. This is a tough place and ,again, 'a many splintered thing'. I admonish you to simply speak what you know to be true. People can take it or leave it.
 

Lighthouse

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I am not tied to all the laws because we are under the new covenant of Jesus. I do eat kosher foods because it is my culture to do so, not because of any law. Anything that Jesus says, trumps the old law. I hold Jesus higher than the old Law because He is G-d in the flesh, the second person of the trinity

If the label going to cause this much trouble on this board I won't use it. All people that accept Jesus as their Savior, become children of the promise. They are grafted into the Olive Tree. Blood heritage doesn't amount to much if you do not have Jesus. Make sense?
The label isn't the issue. I'm just asking, because I don't actually know.

What are your views on baptism?
 

Sherman

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The label isn't the issue. I'm just asking, because I don't actually know.

What are your views on baptism?

Baptism is act of obedience reflecting an inward condition--Repentance. I believe in baptism by immersion because that is how it was done in the scripture. I do not believe in infant baptism. An infant cannot choose to repent and obey G-d.

Baptism is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It is a testimony of putting to death the old nature and putting on the nature of Christ. It doesn't mean we will be perfect. We have to put to death daily our old natures. Baptism is a demonstration of repentance and obedience.

Hope that makes sense.

BTW I have churches deny me membership because of my Jewishness, so this isn't new. I even had kids throw nasty stuff at me. I have swam up stream all of my life.
 

Lighthouse

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Baptism is act of obedience reflecting an inward condition--Repentance. I believe in baptism by immersion because that is how it was done in the scripture. I do not believe in infant baptism. An infant cannot choose to repent and obey G-d.

Baptism is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It is a testimony of putting to death the old nature and putting on the nature of Christ. It doesn't mean we will be perfect. We have to put to death daily our old natures. Baptism is a demonstration of repentance and obedience.

Hope that makes sense.
Is it necessary?
 

Sherman

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I would have to say yes. The bible language is pretty strong.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;



Mark 16: Verses 15-16


G-d's word is absolute truth. G-d said it, I believe it, that settles it.
 

Todah

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Welcome, I belong to a Messianic Christian fellowship in Colorado. I am always having to explain or defend my beliefs in what the Bible says and what Yeshua says. Sorry you are being grilled with questions, left and right, so to speak.

One of our favorite sayings is now that we are free from the law of sin and death, we don't have to keep the Torah we "get" to keep the Torah.

We are free in Yeshua! Free and able to obey Him, as He asks us to.
 

SovereigntyIsGods

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I've always found Messianic Jews interesting. It's amazing to see the flesh and blood of the Promise accept the fulfillment of the Promise in the person of Jesus Christ.
 

steko

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I've always found Messianic Jews interesting. It's amazing to see the flesh and blood of the Promise accept the fulfillment of the Promise in the person of Jesus Christ.

It is amazing in deed. GOD is testifying plainly to the world through them, that He keeps and will keep His promises.
 

Lighthouse

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I would have to say yes. The bible language is pretty strong.

G-d's word is absolute truth. G-d said it, I believe it, that settles it.
So you believe water baptism of the flesh, that cannot inherit the kingdom of God [according to Paul], is the 'one baptism' Paul wrote of in Ephesians?

You've already made it clear you believe that God changes His commands, and thereby trumps His previous commands. So, if I could show you that God has done so, and it is recorded in the Bible, what would you say?

Also, I do not plan to do that in this thread. This is merely to flesh out what you currently believe.
 
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